Andersen WDH

oldbloke · Guru

Andersen WDH

Rob Driver · Guru

RE: Anderson WDH

oldbloke · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Gday Neil,

I dont normally eat popcorn this early in the morning, unless, of course, it comes with fruit and milk in a bowl.

Hang onto your hat mate.

Yeh, lol.

They are very easy to disconnect.

oldbloke · Guru

OK. Bias I guess but HR are saying this style works but not quite as effective.

youtu.be/NNIWCQlRdaw

Rob Driver · Guru

Hi Neil,

After your post this morning I did a bit of a *search* and could find a bit on how to fit the Andersen system but not much more.

I then googled some forums and the main complaint was that the cone bush that is fitted into the receptical under the tow ball flogs out quickly and reportedly causes a very loud noise while operating. The other reported problem was that the arms that receive the chains become loose on the drawbar but this could be an incorrect installation problem.
My thoughts are the system might be better if these arms were welded to the draw bar to prevent movement. The natural action would be for these arms receiving the chains would tend to be pulled along the chassis or draw bar when working.

Now I dont wish to get into how much weight it moves or how anyone who owns a brand of vehicle wont need one, but I could not find any tests indicating its ability to distribute weight from the tow ball to the other axles

I do have a mate that bought one a couple of years ago. He fitted onto a BT50 and a van of approx the 2900 kg size.
I wont see him again until about May but when I do catch up I will ask his thoughts on the kit.

I personally would want proven weigh bridge results before I lashed out with $900+ for a kit.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Saturday 29th of January 2022 07:27:09 PM

oldbloke · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Hi Neil,

After your post this morning I did a bit of a *search* and could find a bit on how to fit the Andersen system but not much more.

I then googled some forums and the main complaint was that the cone bush that is fitted into the receptical under the tow ball flogs out quickly and reportedly causes a very loud noise while operating. The other reported problem was that the arms that receive the chains become loose on the drawbar but this could be an incorrect installation problem.
My thoughts are the system might be better if these arms were welded to the draw bar to prevent movement. The natural action would be for these arms receiving the chains would tend to be pulled along the chassis or draw bar when working.

Now I dont wish to get into how much weight it moves or how anyone who owns a brand of vehicle wont need one, but I could not find any tests indicating its ability to distribute weight from the tow ball to the other axles

I do have a mate that bought one a couple of years ago. He fitted onto a BT50 and a van of approx the 2900 kg size.
I wont see him again until about May but when I do catch up I will ask his thoughts on the kit.
I personally would want proven weigh bridge results before I lashed out with $900+ for a kit.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Saturday 29th of January 2022 07:27:09 PM

That was my impression also. A design fault IMO

Are We Lost · Guru

Based on previous discussions and what happened I resisted responding to this, but the magnet was too strong.

I have an Andersen Hitch and have no problems with it (note the correct spelling). The Hayman Reese is more widely known but I have never used one or anything else to compare. I suspect that the Andersen would be stiffer because all the compression is in that little red urethane "spring".

Addressing Rob's comments:
Cone bush flogs out easily. Back in 2019 I found mine was creeping upwards and developing some cracks, so called the distributor. Turns out there was a design change a couple of years ago. They they sent me a new triangle plate and bush, along with a bottle of some lubricant. In over 20,000km towing since then it is still fine. Never makes any noise to speak of. I note the website now shows a different bush in the current models.

Arms become loose on the drawbar. Not for me. Maybe an installation problem? There are set screws to hold the brackets in place and the installation instructions said to optionally drill small holes where they go, which is what I did. I also put the brackets at a slight "prestressed" angle as per the photo above.

How much weight does it transfer? As much or little as you like. I set mine to move about half of the lost weight back to the front wheels.

So, why did I choose Andersen Hitch over Hayman Reese? Mainly because with HR I don't like the bars that hang down low under the drawbar. Maybe HR could be easier to connect/disconnect, but there would not be much in it. My technique is to connect up, and then wind the jockey wheel to raise the drawbar and car rear end up. Insert the chains in the brackets and tighten the nuts. While the drawbar is raised this can easily be done with fingers. Then lower the jockey wheel and remove it. Done. Reverse the procedure to disconnect.

Having measured and tested everything before, I just visually leave about 5 threads showing. If I am going somewhere with a few deep bumps I will loosen it (socket spanner provided with the kit). I have never removed it when crossing service station driveways, etc, but can feel the stiffness showing it is working hard. I actually tested it crossing a creek, but chickened out when I thought the rear wheels were close to lifting off the gravel. The stresses must have been huge.

The design supposedly inhibits trailer sway by having high friction that resists turning. The more it is loaded, the greater the friction. I can't see it doing a lot, but have no doubt it helps.

Edit: I see Olbloke responded while I was typing this. I very rarely de-tension the chains yet have had no issue with the brackets moving. On that basis I don't see it as a design issue. But if it's a concern, put a couple of bolts through the drawbar.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 29th of January 2022 08:29:47 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Based on previous discussions and what happened I resisted responding to this, but the magnet was too strong.

I have an Andersen Hitch and have no problems with it (note the correct spelling). The Hayman Reese is more widely known but I have never used one or anything else to compare. I suspect that the Andersen would be stiffer because all the compression is in that little red urethane "spring".

Addressing Rob's comments:
Cone bush flogs out easily. Back in 2019 I found mine was creeping upwards and developing some cracks, so called the distributor. Turns out there was a design change a couple of years ago. They they sent me a new triangle plate and bush, along with a bottle of some lubricant. In over 20,000km towing since then it is still fine. Never makes any noise to speak of. I note the website now shows a different bush in the current models.

Arms become loose on the drawbar. Not for me. Maybe an installation problem? There are set screws to hold the brackets in place and the installation instructions said to optionally drill small holes where they go, which is what I did. I also put the brackets at a slight "prestressed" angle as per the photo above.

How much weight does it transfer? As much or little as you like. I set mine to move about half of the lost weight back to the front wheels.

So, why did I choose Andersen Hitch over Hayman Reese? Mainly because with HR I don't like the bars that hang down low under the drawbar. Maybe HR could be easier to connect/disconnect, but there would not be much in it. My technique is to connect up, and then wind the jockey wheel to raise the drawbar and car rear end up. Insert the chains in the brackets and tighten the nuts. While the drawbar is raised this can easily be done with fingers. Then lower the jockey wheel and remove it. Done. Reverse the procedure to disconnect.
Having measured and tested everything before, I just visually leave about 5 threads showing. If I am going somewhere with a few deep bumps I will loosen it (socket spanner provided with the kit). I have never removed it when crossing service station driveways, etc, but can feel the stiffness showing it is working hard. I actually tested it crossing a creek, but chickened out when I thought the rear wheels were close to lifting off the gravel. The stresses must have been huge.

The design supposedly inhibits trailer sway by having high friction that resists turning. The more it is loaded, the greater the friction. I can't see it doing a lot, but have no doubt it helps.
Edit: I see Olbloke responded while I was typing this. I very rarely de-tension the chains yet have had no issue with the brackets moving. On that basis I don't see it as a design issue. But if it's a concern, put a couple of bolts through the drawbar.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 29th of January 2022 08:29:47 PM

Hi awl,

Thanks for your report and personal assessment. I understand your hesitation to post in what may become yet another bun fight.

My comments were only heresay from quotes on other forums. I know nothing about the Andersen Hitch apart from what I have read.

It is good news that the agent looked after you with the fault with the bushing in the ball mount.

You did state that the unit may transfer as much or as little weight as the user wishes. I am assuming that the 4 turns of the nut provides the correct balance for van to car as an average, and this is probably similar to the tensioning of the torsion bar type WDH units where we select the amount of links in the chain.

I am just thinking aloud. biggrin

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Saturday 29th of January 2022 09:39:40 PM

Are We Lost · Guru

Andersen WDH

Rob Driver · Guru

I am thinking aloud again and when I look at the HR unit I see two bars that are functioning as springs or torsion bars.

When I look at the Andersen unit I see two chains linking the van and the car and these are tensioned against two rubber or similar type bushes which appear to provide a sprung tension to the chains when the nuts are tightened up.

I can see how the unit could act as a basic anti sway by the friction provided by the bush under the tow ball which tensions any radial movement of the plate and restricting the movement of the chains which in turn restrict some movement from the van chassis / drawbar.

For the unit to provide weight distribution it appears that the tension of those chains would be such that the connection and tension at the tow ball would need to be enough to cause the tow ball and coupling to lift to transfer weight from that coupling to the axles of the van and lift the rear axle of the car enough to transfer the required weight to the axle groups.
I am not an engineer but it appears to me that because the connection point of the chains are virtually under the coupling then I would be thinking that quite a tension would be needed to provide the lift needed to distribute the weight as required.

What are others thoughts?

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

I had a chat with a bloke that had one of those hitches and he said he had trouble with that bush chopping out and he had to replace it.

He said that he reckoned it chopped the bush out because he was putting so much tension on the chains to get the van and car back to level.
After two bushes he decided to run with it with less tension on the chains.

He said he had not put his van and car over the weigh bridge so he couldnt say what figures he had on the weight distribution to each axle.

It would be interesting to have someone do some weight figures on a weighbridge.

Are We Lost · Guru

Here are my weighbridge figures. As the comments show it was intentionally loaded to the max, and actually a little over. With 160+L of water in the van and 40 in the tub it was not a real hardship. The figures don't quite line up due to the 20kg increments of the weighbridge.

Link to WDH discussion

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

Are We Lost wrote:
Here are my weighbridge figures. As the comments show it was intentionally loaded to the max, and actually a little over. With 160+L of water in the van and 40 in the tub it was not a real hardship. The figures don't quite line up due to the 20kg increments of the weighbridge.
Link to WDH discussion

Cheers for those weights AWL

It appears that they do transfer weight as required.

I dont seem to see that many hitches around, maybe the option should be considered by more caravanners. They are certainly easy to hitch and unhitch.

oldbloke · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Based on previous discussions and what happened I resisted responding to this, but the magnet was too strong.

I have an Andersen Hitch and have no problems with it (note the correct spelling). The Hayman Reese is more widely known but I have never used one or anything else to compare. I suspect that the Andersen would be stiffer because all the compression is in that little red urethane "spring".

Addressing Rob's comments:
Cone bush flogs out easily. Back in 2019 I found mine was creeping upwards and developing some cracks, so called the distributor. Turns out there was a design change a couple of years ago. They they sent me a new triangle plate and bush, along with a bottle of some lubricant. In over 20,000km towing since then it is still fine. Never makes any noise to speak of. I note the website now shows a different bush in the current models.

Arms become loose on the drawbar. Not for me. Maybe an installation problem? There are set screws to hold the brackets in place and the installation instructions said to optionally drill small holes where they go, which is what I did. I also put the brackets at a slight "prestressed" angle as per the photo above.

How much weight does it transfer? As much or little as you like. I set mine to move about half of the lost weight back to the front wheels.

So, why did I choose Andersen Hitch over Hayman Reese? Mainly because with HR I don't like the bars that hang down low under the drawbar. Maybe HR could be easier to connect/disconnect, but there would not be much in it. My technique is to connect up, and then wind the jockey wheel to raise the drawbar and car rear end up. Insert the chains in the brackets and tighten the nuts. While the drawbar is raised this can easily be done with fingers. Then lower the jockey wheel and remove it. Done. Reverse the procedure to disconnect.
Having measured and tested everything before, I just visually leave about 5 threads showing. If I am going somewhere with a few deep bumps I will loosen it (socket spanner provided with the kit). I have never removed it when crossing service station driveways, etc, but can feel the stiffness showing it is working hard. I actually tested it crossing a creek, but chickened out when I thought the rear wheels were close to lifting off the gravel. The stresses must have been huge.

The design supposedly inhibits trailer sway by having high friction that resists turning. The more it is loaded, the greater the friction. I can't see it doing a lot, but have no doubt it helps.
Edit: I see Olbloke responded while I was typing this. I very rarely de-tension the chains yet have had no issue with the brackets moving. On that basis I don't see it as a design issue. But if it's a concern, put a couple of bolts through the drawbar.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 29th of January 2022 08:29:47 PM

Are we lost,

Thanks for you reply. Its great to get info from the horse so to speak, rather than garbage pasted from the www.

Sorry for being tardy to reply.

I've been busy helping a company with some pretty serious issues relating to atmospheric contamination of confined spaces, some of which are explosive as well as

potentially very, hazardous. All this along with emergency evacuation of personnel at height. Luckily I was called in and have resolved the issues allowing staff to enter the

confined space whilst staying safe.

I just feel so privileged to be in the position to offer this technical advice to ensure a safe work place. It only comes with many years of experience and of course great quals.

Lets move on. Well regarding the Andersen Hitch,, I think the way it operates by simply squeezing the ball and van frame from below is simply not as direct, or efficient as

the lever system employed by classic weight distribution systems. It has some advantages but inclined to think the traditional type is better. But I may be corrected.

And in retrospect I was silly to say the bracket on the van chassis was a design fault. Clearly it works.

jegog · Senior Member

I have just been reading an rvbooks article which explains not only that using a WDH adversely effects the vehicle steering but they lower the speed where the caravan becomes unstable and starts to yaw.
There is also a recommendation to only recover half the front wheel loss and that using a WDH to level the vehicle or caravan using a WDH is a no-no.
Transferring weight from the back wheels to the front reduces the vehicles designed understeer.
There are also links to other articles on caravan towing safety.
There is also a warning from Landrover about the effects of using WDHs on their vehicles.

Before shooting what I've said above down in flames, please read the article and argue against the article contents.

rvbooks.com.au/weight-distribution-hitch-limits-cornering/

montie · Guru

Trolling at it's best!

Give it a rest guys!

yobarr · Guru

jegog wrote:
I have just been reading an rvbooks article which explains not only that using a WDH adversely effects (affects) the vehicle steering but they lower the speed where the caravan becomes unstable and starts to yaw.
There is also a recommendation to only recover half the front wheel loss and that using a WDH to level the vehicle or caravan using a WDH is a no-no.
Transferring weight from the back wheels to the front reduces the vehicles designed understeer
( AND increases the risk of the dangerous OVERSTEER situation, which is not a problem for some folk, but is a very dangerous situation for those who never have learned to drive sideways! )

There are also links to other articles on caravan towing safety.
There is also a warning from Landrover about the effects of using WDHs on their vehicles.

Before shooting what I've said above down in flames, please read the article and argue against the article contents.

rvbooks.com.au/weight-distribution-hitch-limits-cornering/

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

I thought this thread had died.

How wrong was I.

montie picked it.

Ram Man · Veteran Member

Well Old Bloke,

I am looking at it and can't get the physics how it works and what forces it applies onto the trailer frame or the tow vehicle, so I have asked an expert.

How does this thing work because I can't find it on the net, an explanation of does it transfer weight.

I know how a the conventional WDH works, but this has go me stumped. I'll let you know should I get a answer.

Are We Lost · Guru

Oldbloke does not have one, unless he bought one after posing that question. But the photo he posted is a good start. It may be clearer if I describe the way I fit mine.

With the van coupling secured on the towball, I wind the jockey wheel back down again so the drawbar is facing up a little, and so is the rear end of the tow vehicle. The car and van form a slight inverted V, with the towball being the centre of that V. It's only a few inches. But weight has been lifted from the car rear wheels and distributed mainly to the front wheels, and a little to the van wheels.

Then fit the chain. It provides tension between the vehicle and drawbar, below the towball level. It limits the ability of that inverted V to flatten. Without that chain, as the jockey wheel gets raised, the inverted V would flatten and then become a normal V as the car rear end sags. But with the WDH, the chain prevents the inverted V from flattening. The result is less weight on the car rear wheels.

Then, on the road, the chain keeps the rig taught like a board, this radically reducing porpoising. But the main benefit is with the dynamic nature of highway travel. When braking or going over undulations, any tendency for the car rear end to sag are resisted by the stiff nature of the design, which gets stiffer the more it is needed. The red bush you see in the photo is the spring that allows just enough movement.

I rarely find the need to remove mine, or reduce tension, but I would if going through a creek crossing or other deepish culvert.

The design also provides some level of sway control. This is achieved by having the towball assembly sit in a replaceable friction material. It provides just enough friction to provide some resistance to turning, while being undetectable when driving. How much it helps I don't know, but it's stiff enough to be impossible to rotate by hand when the van is decoupled, even with a solid hammer.

Saaby · Member

I realise that this thread is quite old but I can add some further experience on Andersen hitches. Our euro van chopped out the Al-Ko over run brake damper after 20,000km. I saw little value in replacing with another Al-Ko damper so junked the entire hitch (a friction hitch) and replaced it with a standard Al-Ko hitch that bolted straight on. Between the Gold Coast and Canberra the van tail wagged 20-30 times in all sorts of weather and road conditions. I'm experienced with heavy haulage driving and it scared the bejabbers out of me. Between Canberra - Perth I organised a Andersen hitch to be freighted to Perth from Melbourne. Unable to carry much water due to moving weight forward to load up the tow ball, we were out of water by he time we arrived in Kalgoorlie. The front seat in the dining was stacked with a Dometic portable fridge freezer (our van fridge burned the wiring out a day before we departed), a Baby Q, and anything else that wouldn't float, to increase TBW. All small fixes allowed us to get to Perth with much reduced danger and at reduced driving speed. I fitted the Andersen hitch while at a caravan park in Midland, after reducing the length of the solid steel tow hitch insert due to the Ford spare wheel intrusion. About 3-4 hours to cut, drill and fit it all, it was a resounding success. Having over-run brakes means that the tension nuts on the side chains cannot be over tightened as that pulls the brake cable on. This I discovered when trying to depart the caravan park after fitting. The WDH element of the hitch is not something that interests me as under normal circumstances the van does not need WD but i understand that the dynamics of WDH alter applied weight/s to front and rear tug axles.. I had limited time to research this on the road before ordering. I was after anti sway. The friction hitch performs this task admirably. It is quick and easy to fit and uninstall. I can reverse the van without removing it. It is quiet and does the job I bought it for. The reduced parts longevity with earlier models has been rectified, and replaceable parts are more available/cheaper than Al-Ko European components. One downside is that it has added slightly more weight to the tug rear axle as the friction tow ball is quite heavy. The listed TBW for the van is 120kg, well below the 10%+- we are used to working with, so the Blackjack electric jack hasn't helped, but I have junked the original dining table frame and top for a lighter, smaller table and replaced the AGM battery with a Lifepo4 200amp battery. It's around 130kg at the moment which is well short of the 10% figure of 180kg. I believe I need a little extra weight at the tow ball to facilitate the operation of the friction hitch. Hopefully, my experience may help others.