Best off-road hybrid van

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

RE: Best off-road hybrid van

Rob Driver · Guru

montie wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
It appears the ONLY person not getting a say in this thread, or flexing their muscles, is Kerryn.

They ask a question, then thepost is taken over by others who look to impose what they want to know on it. Maybe, just maybe, Kerryn would like to hear about other options like motor homes and full size vans.

I just hope Kerryn comes back, and gets something useful from the experience and input of others.

Remember, it is THEIR thread, and should not be highjacked by others. Certainly at least not until Kerryn has decided what they would like to hear from this thread.

Over to you Kerryn!

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 18th of January 2022 09:33:24 PM
My advice to Kerryn.
1) "Hybrid" vans are relatively new to the market, emerging in the past couple of years. Smaller, more narrow, all the "off road bling".
2) The majority of "Hybrids" on the Aus market are built in China
3) The Aus built Hybrids are grossly overpriced.
4) For serious off road travelling a good quality camper trailer is an option. And it is not as expensive.
5) Please do your research...there are places and destinations in Aus where towing is simply not an option.
6) Listen to the advice of experienced people....I suspect that is the reason why you posted on this forum in the first instance...Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Hey Heathy,

You favouritism is showing mate, in fact it is hanging out like dog nuts.

How much better the topic would have presented to a new member had the *salesman* just provided his valuable thoughts and views rather than attack another member who initially agreed with his view on the price but did provide his thoughts on why he would not have an truck based camper only after it was already mentioned I might add.

Some on here may be titillated or excited or even envious of the adventures of the *Wayward Brothers* but others see it for what it is and that is nothing more an EGO trip with the sole purpose of promoting the *look at me, look at me* character trait.

Although it wasnt outright suggested that the Op should consider a certain brand of truck, this is what was suggested in the first reply.

And the best way to get exactly what you want without breaking the bank is to build it yourself. This company will provide a flat pack kit to your design or build it for you.
https://www.vanglassrv.com.au/truck-campers
Cheers,

The way some long termers on this forum repeatedly derail enquiries from new members with their own self centred and for the most, off topic views or comments is disturbing.

If you want to behave that way then Facebook might be better suited to you.

This is a good forum, stop spoiling it.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 07:54:49 AM

Karramar · Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

Some short video clips.
https://youtu.be/hX2bqM8VSZE

https://youtu.be/9cJg8JoTA9s

https://youtu.be/W479TUTa9NQ

https://youtu.be/C0drBOXsbas

https://youtu.be/m2GPMnAZMKg

https://youtu.be/UvXsocNrRWw

And the best way to get exactly what you want without breaking the bank is to build it yourself. This company will provide a flat pack kit to your design or build it for you.
https://www.vanglassrv.com.au/truck-campers
Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 18th of January 2022 11:09:08 AM

These are pretty amazing videos Peter - I can't believe that thing managed to stay upright with some of the angles you got on it. But how do you go about parking in town to get the groceries? We won't only be in the outback, we'll also be going through built-up areas. I can only imagine needing to tow a car/trailer to get around in, and that defeats the purpose of not towing! Hubby would be fine - strap a motorbike to the back - but I won't get on a motorbike! Anyway thanks for the vids, its food for thought. Cheers. :)

-- Edited by Karramar on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 08:39:17 AM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Karramar wrote:
But how do you go about parking in town to get the groceries? We won't only be in the outback, we'll also be going through built-up areas. I can only imagine needing to tow a car/trailer to get around in, and that defeats the purpose of not towing! Hubby would be fine - strap a motorbike to the back - but I won't get on a motorbike! Anyway thanks for the vids, its food for thought. Cheers. :)

Kerryn, there is an important parking distinction between vehicles under 6m total length and those that are longer.

You can not legally park a vehicle that is over 6m long (or over 4.5T) in a public street for more than 1 hour without a special permit (that includes caravans) unless there is a parking area especially set aside for such purposes. Many people ignore this.

Our vehicle is a tad under 6m and we happily park it anywhere in normal parking places in the street and in shopping centres. We are over 4.5T and that limits street parking (although it has never attacted unwanted attention) but it does not limit shopping centre parking. Our next camper (under construction) will be under the 4.5T mark.

There is a great deal of convenience to be able to come out of the shops, pack the groceries directly into the fridge and freezer and return the packaging rubbish straight back to the shops.

We have found no need for a second vehicle. If you stay under 6m it is not needed. If we go exploring for the day, it is convenient to have our "house" with us for the coffee, lunch etc or just in case we change our minds and spend the night somewhere else.

It makes a good lookout point too. smile

05-11-20 007cE.jpg

Cheers,

Peter

montie · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
montie wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
It appears the ONLY person not getting a say in this thread, or flexing their muscles, is Kerryn.

They ask a question, then thepost is taken over by others who look to impose what they want to know on it. Maybe, just maybe, Kerryn would like to hear about other options like motor homes and full size vans.

I just hope Kerryn comes back, and gets something useful from the experience and input of others.

Remember, it is THEIR thread, and should not be highjacked by others. Certainly at least not until Kerryn has decided what they would like to hear from this thread.

Over to you Kerryn!

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 18th of January 2022 09:33:24 PM
My advice to Kerryn.
1) "Hybrid" vans are relatively new to the market, emerging in the past couple of years. Smaller, more narrow, all the "off road bling".
2) The majority of "Hybrids" on the Aus market are built in China
3) The Aus built Hybrids are grossly overpriced.
4) For serious off road travelling a good quality camper trailer is an option. And it is not as expensive.
5) Please do your research...there are places and destinations in Aus where towing is simply not an option.
6) Listen to the advice of experienced people....I suspect that is the reason why you posted on this forum in the first instance...Don't be afraid to ask more questions.
Hey Heathy,
You favouritism is showing mate, in fact it is hanging out like dog nuts.

How much better the topic would have presented to a new member had the *salesman* just provided his valuable thoughts and views rather than attack another member who initially agreed with his view on the price but did provide his thoughts on why he would not have an truck based camper only after it was already mentioned I might add.
Some on here may be titillated or excited or even envious of the adventures of the *Wayward Brothers* but others see it for what it is and that is nothing more an EGO trip with the sole purpose of promoting the *look at me, look at me* character trait.
Although it wasnt outright suggested that the Op should consider a certain brand of truck, this is what was suggested in the first reply.
And the best way to get exactly what you want without breaking the bank is to build it yourself. This company will provide a flat pack kit to your design or build it for you.
https://www.vanglassrv.com.au/truck-campers
Cheers,

The way some long termers on this forum repeatedly derail enquiries from new members with their own self centred and for the most, off topic views or comments is disturbing.
If you want to behave that way then Facebook might be better suited to you.
This is a good forum, stop spoiling it.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 07:54:49 AM

Might I suggest you read the OP.

Kerryn asked for the "pros and cons of the various brands/models in order to make an informed decision"

Now I'm sure you have something useful to contribute to the topic. smile

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Although it wasnt outright suggested that the Op should consider a certain brand of truck, this is what was suggested in the first reply.
And the best way to get exactly what you want without breaking the bank is to build it yourself. This company will provide a flat pack kit to your design or build it for you.
https://www.vanglassrv.com.au/truck-campers
Cheers,

If you took the trouble to check the site that I linked to, you will find that they provide this service with campers, "hybrids", and caravans too.

The materials they make would allow the construction of a hybrid that is lighter and tougher than anything currently on the market.

Cheers,

Peter

Rob Driver · Guru

Montie, your final comments were quite helpful but anyone who may have been prompted to contribute information on a BRAND specific post we may never see.

Kerryn asked for the "pros and cons of the various brands/models in order to make an informed decision"

From my understanding she actually asked for the brands as well. That is why the member you berated was following. Go pack and read the topic.

I dont blame anyone for not commenting. The fear of being ridiculed is currently very high on this forum.

It is a shame a man with your knowledge may choose to attack another member because he stated views that upset your mate.

I need to say that I also find some of the attached videos both entertaining and informative however them being used to railroad any post that the author does not agree with is really not acceptable.

It may be suggested for the author to spend their time organising their videos comments and stories of adventure and discovery into a chronological order and then with the permission of the Administrator of the forum place the entire entry into a *Sticky Forum Topic* on here so others may view and comment at their leisure and not have it used to drag posts off topic.
Some others on here do excellent and very entertaining blogs and vlogs of their adventures and they post them appropriately. I note the Op has politely mentioned that a truck may not be what they considered, but still the endless promotion of a 4wd truck with a camper on the back continues.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Karramar wrote:
Hubby would be fine - strap a motorbike to the back - but I won't get on a motorbike!

We travelled with a Yamaha DT100 on the back of our F350 4WD for a while some years ago.

Not any more. Not allowed to.

Do NOT open the second pic.

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 09:57:28 AM

montie · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Montie, your final comments were quite helpful but anyone who may have been prompted to contribute information on a BRAND specific post we may never see.

Kerryn asked for the "pros and cons of the various brands/models in order to make an informed decision"
From my understanding she actually asked for the brands as well. That is why the member you berated was following. Go pack and read the topic.

I dont blame anyone for not commenting. The fear of being ridiculed is currently very high on this forum.
It is a shame a man with your knowledge may choose to attack another member because he stated views that upset your mate.
I need to say that I also find some of the attached videos both entertaining and informative however them being used to railroad any post that the author does not agree with is really not acceptable.
It may be suggested for the author to spend their time organising their videos comments and stories of adventure and discovery into a chronological order and then with the permission of the Administrator of the forum place the entire entry into a *Sticky Forum Topic* on here so others may view and comment at their leisure and not have it used to drag posts off topic.
Some others on here do excellent and very entertaining blogs and vlogs of their adventures and they post them appropriately. I note the Op has politely mentioned that a truck may not be what they considered, but still the endless promotion of a 4wd truck with a camper on the back continues.

Rob,

Do you actually have anything informative to add to this topic?

If not can I suggest that we leave the running of the forum to Admin.

If the OP needs more information we will all be very pleased to provide it on request.

Rob Driver · Guru

You are correct Montie, but you might want to inform your mate above that his pics and vids are no longer needed.

As I said some posts with vids in this topic have a huge EGO value to the author.
That is why he / them have posted the last post above. The Op had mentioned her rejection of a motor bike

They would make a very entertaining travel and information blog /vlog but the continual posting of their adventures is not what many of us may want to see time after time.

Karramar · Member

I have actually found the information re 4WD motorhomes quite interesting. I had ruled out motorhomes, but didn't realise they came in 4WD, or that they could manage off-road travel quite so well. Still not sure it is the right choice for us, but have certainly added it to our options to consider. So thank you, even though I didn't ask about it.

Rather than arguing amongst yourselves, I would really love to hear from people who have travelled some of these more remote areas (as well the bitumen & gravel roads that we will mainly be on as we travel the big loop). What did you do it in, how did it hold up, what would you do if you did it again? For those that travel with a camper trailer, how do you managed off-grid - are you able to utilise solar power without a roof to attach solar panels to? This would be useful information to help us in our research (rather than just bickering).

Thanks. :)

-- Edited by Karramar on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 11:21:40 AM

montie · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
You are correct Montie, but you might want to inform your mate above that his pics and vids are no longer needed.

As I said some posts with vids in this topic have a huge EGO value to the author.
That is why he / them have posted the last post above. The Op had mentioned her rejection of a motor bike

They would make a very entertaining travel and information blog /vlog but the continual posting of their adventures is not what many of us may want to see time after time.

Rob,

You are misinformed. Peter is not my mate and I have no intention of informing him to do anything.

Take your grievance up with Admin and let us all get on with helping Kerryn with her queries.

montie · Guru

Karramar wrote:
I have actually found the information re 4WD motorhomes quite interesting. I had ruled out motorhomes, but didn't realise they came in 4WD, or that they could manage off-road travel quite so well. Still not sure it is the right choice for us, but have certainly added it to our options to consider. So thank you, even though I didn't ask about it.

Rather than arguing amongst yourselves, I would really love to hear from people who have travelled some of these more remote areas (as well the bitumen & gravel roads that we will mainly be on as we travel the big loop). What did you do it in, how did it hold up, what would you do if you did it again? For those that travel with a camper trailer, how do you managed off-grid - are you able to utilise solar power without a roof to attach solar panels to? This would be useful information to help us in our research (rather than just bickering).

Thanks. :)

-- Edited by Karramar on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 11:21:40 AM

Kerryn,

I did a double crossing of the Simpson back in the 80's which prompted me to comment on the dangers of towing a camper across there.

One of our group decided to tow a driven trailer (it had power to the wheels set up through a PTO) but even then it was no match for the dunes on the French Line.

That trailer is still out there! blankstare

My mode of transport back then was a SWB Toyota Landcruiser 4x4.

On the subject of Hybrids there is a fairly generous selection on the market at the moment the majority of which are imports. If you settle on a particular brand I will be able to give you more detailed feedback.

Rob Driver · Guru

Hi Kerryn

I am loathed to say this but asking about hybrid units which to the caravan industry are fairly new you might get better and more up to date information from some younger contributors.
I dont know that (we the forum members in general) support too many younger members unfortunately. Knowledge by many of us older folk may be good but maybe not as applicable as you may like particularly to the more modern equipment which is available today.

Even once you have chosen a hybrid or camper there may be heated discussions between some on here with reference to suspension types, hitches, weights, tow vehicles, prices, and the list goes on. Many will have an input based on their beliefs rather than modern knowledge and up to date experience.

By all means read all the comments sometimes there is good, accurate and up to date information but if I were looking for some reference points on those type of hybrids I would search out brand specific forums or dare I suggest, FaceBook.
Off road travel and camping forums that attract younger members might offer some great information as they can be more open in as much as most of the posters may not necessarily have their own agendas or have an insatiable need to tell us all how they crossed the Simpson Desert last century.

After reading and participating I am sure you will sort out the *wheat from the chaff*
Hang about here, you never know that someone might be prepared to run the gauntlet to answer you enquiries and actually own or have used a desired brand name hybrid.

Good luck and safe travels.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 11:49:41 AM

Karramar · Member

We're really open to lots of ideas - all part of spending 2-3 years researching. Now we are also considering a comfy caravan, and then unhitching and leaving it somewhere and heading off for a few weeks in different locations with a 4WD and tent/swag/rooftop tent etc. So really considering what is the best way to head off around Australia, see as much as we can (include some of the more remote areas). So keep it coming! '

Yes, I originally asked about hybrids, but now considering other options too. Very open to learning from others' experiences. :)

Whenarewethere · Guru

We are in a car only & have a mosquito enclosure/tent which attaches to the awning, but 19 times out of 20 sleep in the back of the car. 3 months is about our limit. Last trip didn't use the awning once, couldn't be bothered. Having a car only you can disappear far more easily. We have all our requirements, like coffee beans & hand grinder, so we don't go without. Use metho for cooking. Got our water usage down to 2.5-3.0L each per day. We can carry up to about 80L. Water is the first thing to run out of.

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

Karramar wrote:
We're really open to lots of ideas - all part of spending 2-3 years researching. Now we are also considering a comfy caravan, and then unhitching and leaving it somewhere and heading off for a few weeks in different locations with a 4WD and tent/swag/rooftop tent etc. So really considering what is the best way to head off around Australia, see as much as we can (include some of the more remote areas). So keep it coming! '

Yes, I originally asked about hybrids, but now considering other options too. Very open to learning from others' experiences. :)

I found this blog the other day. My son was looking to do a bit of travelling.

Whatever equipment you select you will find bits of it your dont like and you will find hundreds of comments both for and against right down to the finest detail.

Try to hire or borrow something close to what you want to try it out.

Remember the weather and conditions you have at home will not be anything you might experience if out in the desert.

You seem to have plenty of time and thoughts which turn into enquiries. Detailed planning is important.

Some advice my son said to me the other day.

*Dont believe the camper salesman*

Here is the blog. There are many others if searching the internet.

https://blog.campermate.com.au/advice/fulltime-camper-trailer-travel-with-kids/

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
Try to hire or borrow something close to what you want to try it out.
Remember the weather and conditions you have at home will not be anything you might experience if out in the desert.

Good advise. A couple of hires may settle a choice for the good or the bad, so very worthwhile.

The extremes of the weather need to be considered. Tasmania in the off season is wonderful, but not so attractive with canvas bits, due to no insulation and flapping in the wind. We have a pop top over the bed. The new build will be solid for these reasons.

Likewise the tropics. The mozies and the sand flies can carry you away at odd times and the more ventilation you have the better. So many RVs have pokey little windows. Also better for the view if stuck inside, even fixed windows.

06t (72).JPG

06-03-02 038cE.jpg

Cheers,

Peter

lkyphl · Member

Kerryn,

There don't seem to be any advertised for sale at the moment, although they do come up quite often, but if it's only two of you, you could consider a little Trakmaster Gibson poptop, not a hybrid but still quite short and manoeuvrable.

I have a similar-sized Trakmaster, 6'6" wide with 240l water capacity, 570w solar, a couple of 120Ah lithium batteries, babyQ, plenty of storage, 150l fridge, which I find completely comfortable for extended trips.

Just another suggestion to muddy the waters !

Phil

Karramar · Member

lkyphl wrote:
Kerryn,

There don't seem to be any advertised for sale at the moment, although they do come up quite often, but if it's only two of you, you could consider a little Trakmaster Gibson poptop, not a hybrid but still quite short and manoeuvrable.

I have a similar-sized Trakmaster, 6'6" wide with 240l water capacity, 570w solar, a couple of 120Ah lithium batteries, babyQ, plenty of storage, 150l fridge, which I find completely comfortable for extended trips.

Just another suggestion to muddy the waters !

Phil

Hi Phil, the Trakmaster Gibson has previously been recommended by someone who has done the big lap. Pity they're not still in production, but will keep an eye out for 2nd-hand units when the time comes. Thanks. :)

Possum3 · Guru

Kerryn, Trackmaster still make small vans see; trakmaster.com.au/off-road-caravans/explorer/

Douga · Newbie

Peter,

Please let us know where we can see/follow your new build, is it another Oka?

-- Edited by Douga on Saturday 22nd of January 2022 04:42:10 AM

Mamil · Senior Member

Karramar wrote:

My husband and I were initially tossing up between a camper trailer & a hybrid van. We just think the setting up of the camper trailer for 12 months might drive us balmy (we are basically lazy)! But it would probably be the better option for some of the off-road parts of Australia that would be amazing to explore.

We're really open to lots of ideas - all part of spending 2-3 years researching. Now we are also considering a comfy caravan, and then unhitching and leaving it somewhere and heading off for a few weeks in different locations with a 4WD and tent/swag/rooftop tent etc. So really considering what is the best way to head off around Australia, see as much as we can (include some of the more remote areas). So keep it coming! '

Yes, I originally asked about hybrids, but now considering other options too. Very open to learning from others' experiences. :)

Hi Kerryn,

I have no experience with hybrids or campervans (apart from renting a Maui campervan a couple of times in New Zealand), but did own a caravan for a number of years and now have a camper trailer, so can offer some thoughts about the pros & cons of those. Just my personal opinions of course, and others may disagree!

We bought the caravan when we still had kids travelling with us, but since they flew the nest we decided to return to a simpler style of camping and traded it for a camper trailer. Overall I found travelling with the caravan a more stressful experience - worried about sway, high winds, getting stuck in places and having to reverse out, not being able to clearly see what was behind us, and the car was also under more stress too and used double the fuel as the camper trailer now does.

However, we did enjoy the ability to just pull over at the side of the road and have access to the caravan fridge, toilet etc. and overnighters were simplicity itself because we left everything hooked up and just climbed into bed! The caravan also wins hands down in terms of those luxuries like air conditioning/heating, hot water, shower and toilet, indoor cooking, larger fridge, and being well insulated from noise of other campers and weather.

The camper trailer on the other hand scores high for simplicity. We've ditched all the paraphernalia and gizmos associated with caravanning and returned back to camping at it's most basic, cooking and eating outdoors instead of inside, fans instead of A/C, cold water showers outside instead of hot water inside. It's also given us the ability to set off on an adventure at an hour's notice if the whim takes us, and as it cost half the price we don't feel like we have to use it as often as possible because of the capital we've got tied up in it, which feels quite liberating. It's a breeze to tow as half the weight and half the length, and I can see over and around it even without towing mirrors so feel much more relaxed when driving. It's more capable on corrugations and off-road (there's nothing in it really to break, whereas with the caravan we were worried about things rattling to bits!), so has extended our adventures to places I couldn't/wouldn't go with the caravan in tow. It's easier to reverse if you get stuck in a tight spot and can even be unhitched and manoeuvred by hand if necessary. Since we've downsized the house recently also we've nowhere to store a caravan, but the camper trailer slips easily down the side of the house and is covered by a temporary car port thing.

However, downsides to the camper trailer include not being able to access things inside it when travelling - like food, a sink to wash up in, or even a camp chair to sit on. Setup/packing takes about the same time with both, but then we deliberately went for what must be one of the easiest campers to setup - a Cub hard floor rear fold, whereas soft floor camper trailers with added awnings, shower tents etc. take ages to set up and dismantle. With the camper we also have to limit the seasons/climate we travel in, because it's uncomfortable in torrential rain, high winds, excessive heat and/or humidity, or cold, whereas the caravan was much more resilient to extremes of weather. And one thing I'll never get used to in the camper is the constant noise of flapping canvas and creaking poles, and being able to hear every conversation, snore, and midnight trip to the toilet of your neighbours - so my sleep is disrupted, which is a big disadvantage for me as I already have sleep apnoea. In comparison, I'd close the caravan door and sleep blissfully until the morning!

Overall, for our current situation the camper trailer suits us better, and we've rediscovered the simple pleasures of outdoor living and flexibility the camper trailer allows, but I have to admit if I was to become a full time Grey Nomad, or even do longer trips of months at a time, I would go back to a caravan despite it's disadvantages, simply because of the comforts and facilities it offers. It's one thing roughing it when you know you'll be returning to 'civilisation' and a hot shower and a proper bed soon, but quite another thing when it's full time!

Anyway, hope my ramblings have been of some help, and enjoy whatever it is you end up choosing.

Karramar · Member

Mamil wrote:
Karramar wrote:

My husband and I were initially tossing up between a camper trailer & a hybrid van. We just think the setting up of the camper trailer for 12 months might drive us balmy (we are basically lazy)! But it would probably be the better option for some of the off-road parts of Australia that would be amazing to explore.
We're really open to lots of ideas - all part of spending 2-3 years researching. Now we are also considering a comfy caravan, and then unhitching and leaving it somewhere and heading off for a few weeks in different locations with a 4WD and tent/swag/rooftop tent etc. So really considering what is the best way to head off around Australia, see as much as we can (include some of the more remote areas). So keep it coming! '

Yes, I originally asked about hybrids, but now considering other options too. Very open to learning from others' experiences. :)
Hi Kerryn,
I have no experience with hybrids or campervans (apart from renting a Maui campervan a couple of times in New Zealand), but did own a caravan for a number of years and now have a camper trailer, so can offer some thoughts about the pros & cons of those. Just my personal opinions of course, and others may disagree!
We bought the caravan when we still had kids travelling with us, but since they flew the nest we decided to return to a simpler style of camping and traded it for a camper trailer. Overall I found travelling with the caravan a more stressful experience - worried about sway, high winds, getting stuck in places and having to reverse out, not being able to clearly see what was behind us, and the car was also under more stress too and used double the fuel as the camper trailer now does.
However, we did enjoy the ability to just pull over at the side of the road and have access to the caravan fridge, toilet etc. and overnighters were simplicity itself because we left everything hooked up and just climbed into bed! The caravan also wins hands down in terms of those luxuries like air conditioning/heating, hot water, shower and toilet, indoor cooking, larger fridge, and being well insulated from noise of other campers and weather.
The camper trailer on the other hand scores high for simplicity. We've ditched all the paraphernalia and gizmos associated with caravanning and returned back to camping at it's most basic, cooking and eating outdoors instead of inside, fans instead of A/C, cold water showers outside instead of hot water inside. It's also given us the ability to set off on an adventure at an hour's notice if the whim takes us, and as it cost half the price we don't feel like we have to use it as often as possible because of the capital we've got tied up in it, which feels quite liberating. It's a breeze to tow as half the weight and half the length, and I can see over and around it even without towing mirrors so feel much more relaxed when driving. It's more capable on corrugations and off-road (there's nothing in it really to break, whereas with the caravan we were worried about things rattling to bits!), so has extended our adventures to places I couldn't/wouldn't go with the caravan in tow. It's easier to reverse if you get stuck in a tight spot and can even be unhitched and manoeuvred by hand if necessary. Since we've downsized the house recently also we've nowhere to store a caravan, but the camper trailer slips easily down the side of the house and is covered by a temporary car port thing.
However, downsides to the camper trailer include not being able to access things inside it when travelling - like food, a sink to wash up in, or even a camp chair to sit on. Setup/packing takes about the same time with both, but then we deliberately went for what must be one of the easiest campers to setup - a Cub hard floor rear fold, whereas soft floor camper trailers with added awnings, shower tents etc. take ages to set up and dismantle. With the camper we also have to limit the seasons/climate we travel in, because it's uncomfortable in torrential rain, high winds, excessive heat and/or humidity, or cold, whereas the caravan was much more resilient to extremes of weather. And one thing I'll never get used to in the camper is the constant noise of flapping canvas and creaking poles, and being able to hear every conversation, snore, and midnight trip to the toilet of your neighbours - so my sleep is disrupted, which is a big disadvantage for me as I already have sleep apnoea. In comparison, I'd close the caravan door and sleep blissfully until the morning!
Overall, for our current situation the camper trailer suits us better, and we've rediscovered the simple pleasures of outdoor living and flexibility the camper trailer allows, but I have to admit if I was to become a full time Grey Nomad, or even do longer trips of months at a time, I would go back to a caravan despite it's disadvantages, simply because of the comforts and facilities it offers. It's one thing roughing it when you know you'll be returning to 'civilisation' and a hot shower and a proper bed soon, but quite another thing when it's full time!
Anyway, hope my ramblings have been of some help, and enjoy whatever it is you end up choosing.

Hi Mamil, thanks so much for such a detailed reply! I agree with pretty much everything you've said, and you've highlighted the dilemma. The reason for the hybrid van is its a bit of a compromise between the two - camper trailer and caravan. Its smaller than a caravan, and being pop-top, lower too - which makes me feel a lot safer, as less wind resistance and less sway. It still has a comfy bed & ensuite, and some have small inside kitchens as well as outdoor kitchens (the outdoor kitchens can be accessed for a quick lunch stop on the side of the road). Easy to set up, and can add an annexe for those longer stays. More expensive than a camper trailer, but then a good true off-road camper trailer costs a bloody fortune! So we're still leaning that way as we aim to be on the road for at least a year, maybe more if the nomadic life gets to us. But thank you for such a measured response, greatly appreciated. :)

Radar · Guru

Karramar wrote:
Mamil wrote:
Karramar
Hi Kerryn,
I have no experience with hybrids or campervans (apart from renting a Maui campervan a couple of times in New Zealand), but did own a caravan for a number of years and now have a camper trailer, so can offer some thoughts about the pros & cons of those. Just my personal opinions of course, and others may disagree!
We bought the caravan when we still had kids travelling with us, but since they flew the nest we decided to return to a simpler style of camping and traded it for a camper trailer. Overall I found travelling with the caravan a more stressful experience - worried about sway, high winds, getting stuck in places and having to reverse out, not being able to clearly see what was behind us, and the car was also under more stress too and used double the fuel as the camper trailer now does.
However, we did enjoy the ability to just pull over at the side of the road and have access to the caravan fridge, toilet etc. and overnighters were simplicity itself because we left everything hooked up and just climbed into bed! The caravan also wins hands down in terms of those luxuries like air conditioning/heating, hot water, shower and toilet, indoor cooking, larger fridge, and being well insulated from noise of other campers and weather.
The camper trailer on the other hand scores high for simplicity. We've ditched all the paraphernalia and gizmos associated with caravanning and returned back to camping at it's most basic, cooking and eating outdoors instead of inside, fans instead of A/C, cold water showers outside instead of hot water inside. It's also given us the ability to set off on an adventure at an hour's notice if the whim takes us, and as it cost half the price we don't feel like we have to use it as often as possible because of the capital we've got tied up in it, which feels quite liberating. It's a breeze to tow as half the weight and half the length, and I can see over and around it even without towing mirrors so feel much more relaxed when driving. It's more capable on corrugations and off-road (there's nothing in it really to break, whereas with the caravan we were worried about things rattling to bits!), so has extended our adventures to places I couldn't/wouldn't go with the caravan in tow. It's easier to reverse if you get stuck in a tight spot and can even be unhitched and manoeuvred by hand if necessary. Since we've downsized the house recently also we've nowhere to store a caravan, but the camper trailer slips easily down the side of the house and is covered by a temporary car port thing.
However, downsides to the camper trailer include not being able to access things inside it when travelling - like food, a sink to wash up in, or even a camp chair to sit on. Setup/packing takes about the same time with both, but then we deliberately went for what must be one of the easiest campers to setup - a Cub hard floor rear fold, whereas soft floor camper trailers with added awnings, shower tents etc. take ages to set up and dismantle. With the camper we also have to limit the seasons/climate we travel in, because it's uncomfortable in torrential rain, high winds, excessive heat and/or humidity, or cold, whereas the caravan was much more resilient to extremes of weather. And one thing I'll never get used to in the camper is the constant noise of flapping canvas and creaking poles, and being able to hear every conversation, snore, and midnight trip to the toilet of your neighbours - so my sleep is disrupted, which is a big disadvantage for me as I already have sleep apnoea. In comparison, I'd close the caravan door and sleep blissfully until the morning!
Overall, for our current situation the camper trailer suits us better, and we've rediscovered the simple pleasures of outdoor living and flexibility the camper trailer allows, but I have to admit if I was to become a full time Grey Nomad, or even do longer trips of months at a time, I would go back to a caravan despite it's disadvantages, simply because of the comforts and facilities it offers. It's one thing roughing it when you know you'll be returning to 'civilisation' and a hot shower and a proper bed soon, but quite another thing when it's full time!
Anyway, hope my ramblings have been of some help, and enjoy whatever it is you end up choosing.

Hi Mamil, thanks so much for such a detailed reply! I agree with pretty much everything you've said, and you've highlighted the dilemma. The reason for the hybrid van is its a bit of a compromise between the two - camper trailer and caravan. Its smaller than a caravan, and being pop-top, lower too - which makes me feel a lot safer, as less wind resistance and less sway. It still has a comfy bed & ensuite, and some have small inside kitchens as well as outdoor kitchens (the outdoor kitchens can be accessed for a quick lunch stop on the side of the road). Easy to set up, and can add an annexe for those longer stays. More expensive than a camper trailer, but then a good true off-road camper trailer costs a bloody fortune! So we're still leaning that way as we aim to be on the road for at least a year, maybe more if the nomadic life gets to us. But thank you for such a measured response, greatly appreciated. :)

As a ensuite caravaner I love to go back a step.

These replies are in my useless view "excellent"..

I would like to sell my very comfortable 6 metre caravan and go back to a smaller compromise caravan because we are more touring oriented.

StreetsAhead · Veteran Member

Take a look at the following links which may give you some information.

I especially like the All4Adventure video showing what they do with a caravan.

www.jayco.com.au/range/jayco-hybrids/jayco-hybrid-crosstrak

www.jayco.com.au/all4adventure

PeterInSa · Guru

Re that "all 4 Adventure Van" I watch their shows and that van is really "put to the test", going thru creeks with water above the bottom of the door level, or one wheel off the ground by 30cm going over a bump at speed. I wonder if its the same van they use or its replaced after say every 4 episodes.

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Sunday 23rd of January 2022 08:45:33 PM

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Sunday 23rd of January 2022 08:46:14 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

PeterInSa wrote:
or one wheel off the ground by 30cm going over a bump at speed. I wonder if its the same van they use or its replaced after say every 4 episodes.

Simply means that the suspension is well past its useful capability and has "given up".

The load that wheel should be supporting is now carried by the others. Not good.

And not a good advertisement, in my view.

Like almost every advertisement for 4WDs showing them spinning their wheels and tearing up the countryside. That equals FAIL.

Cheers,

Peter

PeterInSa · Guru

Peter, That van appears in the next weekly session going thru rough country and creeks again, its a pop top/Fibreglass ( FG that you prefer)

Hitting the road · Senior Member

We just sold our soft floor camper trailer and bought a 3 year old 17' Jayco Journey Outback tandem axle 17.55-8. It has the rear ensuite and front island bed.

Just my two bobs worth;

We bought our camper trailer new in June 2020 as we had been camping with a decent tent prior. Part of the motivation for the camper trailer was our regular trips to Fraser Island, and the desire to be able to set up camp a tad quicker than pitching the tent, along with a decent sized and comfortable bed, water capacity etc. We had a separate "ensuite" shower toilet setup we used with the tent and used the same with the camper.

We spent 39 nights in total in the camper trailer over the 18 months and enjoyed "almost" every night. Funny how it usually rains when packing up...lol. We experienced a couple of very wet days and nights but overall not too bad.

And that is one of the reasons we sold the soft floor camper. We live in a Townhouse and have no where to set up the camper to dry at home when packed up wet, so would open it up as much as possible in the garage sometime using a fan to assist the drying. Fortunately the material used dried very quickly.

We also got a bit peeved with the dirt and crud that would always be on the floor section that contacted the ground, even though we always used a ground sheet. Beach camping not so bad as the ground would get damp but the sand wasn't like the mud found else where we some times had to set up.

Among our many journeys was a 3 week trip north as far as Ayre...stopping and camping for a few night here and there. The soft floor camper could not be used in many caravan parks as it couldn't be used with a raised slab....but ok if they had a level slab arrangement or a grassed section, so we had to pick carefully where we could stay. Even then we found the staff answering the phone told us they had the location for our camper but on arrival found it totally unsuitable

The soft floor was fine, but the ongoing limitation of being able to travel and just pull up for the night was another reason to move it on. We are looking forward to some longer trips being able to pull up almost anywhere and the bed is already made, and a shower available right there is a neat thing.
I'll miss the camper at the beach, as from now on trips to the top of Fraser our tent will have to suffice, being I wouldn't take the van up to where we usually camp at Malloo north of Orchid Beach...just too hard!

We chose a Jayco Journey Outback tandem due to the relatively light tare, and a reasonable payload of 575kgs. The Jayco's I have read are not renown for the build quality but that doesn't worry me...so long as the running gear is robust as that is the bit that's important to me. The Jayco J-Tech independent suspension seems fine and shouldn't give too many dramas imo.

Our requirements for a van also included having an "ensuite" with separate shower and toilet for my better half due partly to her nocturnal needs. Plus we have plans to utilise the over night stay options that many Wineries offer, the requirement is self containment to do that so this van has a grey water tank fitted.
It also had to be a pop top type as I prefer the lower towing and storage height....tick.

We do like to spend most of our camping off grid so I have upgraded the electrics to 2 x 140w AGM battery capacity to enable us to be off grid for as long as we wish with additional 450w's of solar besides the small 160w roof mounted panel.

This van also carries 160 litres of water if need be...but two full tanks impact on payload.
We know already that each of us uses 6 litres of water for a shower should we choose to use the "ensuite", so based on that we can easily go at least two weeks totally off grid before needing a water top, given water is used washing up and making tea and coffee too. Additional water could be carted in anyway if needed.

I am upgrading the standard 50mm ball type hitch on this van to an offroad type coupling for better articulation, just not sure whi9ch one just yet. We'll see how ground clearance goes too, though i am pretty confident we'll be ok. I will consider upgrading the tyres, or rims and tyres to increase ground clearance if need be. Even would be possible to reset the coil springs to gain some clearance, we'll see.

We plan to do Birdsville when the weather cools a bit, we had booked everything last year for Birdsville taking the camper trailer but it was of course cancelled. Beach camping is on the agenda, ongoing "road trips", and eventually will head West as my family is there, and then travel north to the Gibb River Road.

I am confident the Jayco will be fine, just as always drive to the conditions, and stay on top of any maintenance requirements.