More on towing for those that want to know, and 'specially for ISUZU D-MAX

Brodie Allen · Guru

More on towing for those that want to know, and 'specially for ISUZU D-MAX

yobarr · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
Watch this video, but especially the last third re the D-MAX.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RANf_yUxZs
On the same page is a couple more discussions re other towing vehicles.
Very interesting.

Very interesting? Simply confirms what I have been posting for ages.Tow 3500kg ATM van with any car with 6000kg GCM? Dream on,because it cannot be done,if safety is of ANY concern.Cheers

Long Weekend · Guru

Clicking on the link in both postings didn't work for me - I had to do a little bit of trickery to watch it. Very clear and interesting.

If you ever speak to anyone that is obviously towing a very heavy van with an unsuitable tug they will always tell you that the combination works and they haven't ever had any problems. Therefore, buzz off and stop annoying me.

While I was in the Northern Territory in the late 1980s I was talking to a man that had once pulled a Toyota Landcruiser out of a bog with a Suzuki LJ50. Ego, proof that a small Suzuki could tow a heavy land cruiser! (In fact, he used a snatch strap and jerked the Tojo out a little at a time.)

Anyway, my van is only 2.1 tonnes, well within the capacity of our Ranger. It also helps that our kids have grown up and can be left at home. The only problem is my wife who insists on taking everything - believe it or not she once took eight pairs of shoes for a two week trip!

Murray

JackoFJR · Senior Member

I don't think there are many vehicles that can tow there max without going over GVM or GCM or max rear axle weight , my Patrol has a GCM of 7T there is no way you can achieve that legally but plenty still keep claiming you can .

yobarr · Guru

JackoFJR wrote:
I don't think there are many vehicles that can tow there max without going over GVM or GCM or max rear axle weight, my Patrol has a GCM of 7T there is no way you can achieve that legally but plenty still keep claiming you can .

Hi Ron.Great to see that at least someone understands weights! In your post above,I have highlighted the most misunderstood weight limitation the rear axle carrying capacity.As far as your GCM goes,with absolutely perfect loading,you may reach 6520kg.No more. Those who claim otherwise, which included my neighbour who works for ARB,are living in LaLa land.After my detailed explanation,complete with drawings etc,my neighbour now fully understands the limitations of his car.Using any of the 6000kg GCM twin-cab utes to safely tow a 3500kg ATM PIG trailer (van) is an absolute impossibility,as I have previously detailed.Cheers

Mobi Condo · Guru

Very nice expose, it is a real headache to keep on top of legals when near limits.

As a logistics officer for a trial group taking "heavy" stuff out in the field with trailers and caravans, I had to study all the in & outs and agree totally with the video, it would be STUPID not too.

In my working life, trying to convince higher level scientists, engineers and managers was damn near impossible though - was not until a contracted transport company blew the whistle on so called load weights (at least one tonne over stated on paper work for one trailer) because they knew better as they had degrees and doctorates and I did not, that they started to take notice of my input and calculations sheets and agreed to hiring (spending more money on each trial) to get us legal.

I am very thankful to see such posted.

Huh! I feel better now!

Brodie Allen · Guru

What about this one?

Spotted in Canberra a few months ago. Was one of two in the same camp.

IMG_E0552 4.jpg

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Don't make assumptions about weight or stability based on length.
Friends in Holland tow this 10m van at speeds up to 130kph behind their Porsche Cayenne.
It weighs about 2.7T and 5% ball weight is typical in Europe.

Yaw inertia (the distribution of too much weight towards the ends of the van) is critical to the stability of a pig trailer (typical caravan) with an overhung hitch.

German van.jpg

Cheers,

Peter

Long Weekend · Guru

I don't mean to get off track, but has anybody else noticed the electrical power lead connection set up for the van photo posted by Brodie?

Murray

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Long Weekend wrote:
I don't mean to get off track, but has anybody else noticed the electrical power lead connection set up for the van photo posted by Brodie?

Murray

Multiple 15A power inlets. Quite legal. Cost more at the caravan park.

In Europe, there is sometimes a choice between a 16A inlet and something higher.

Cheers,

Peter

KJB · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Don't make assumptions about weight or stability based on length.
Friends in Holland tow this 10m van at speeds up to 130kph behind their Porsche Cayenne.
It weighs about 2.7T and 5% ball weight is typical in Europe.
Yaw inertia (the distribution of too much weight towards the ends of the van) is critical to the stability of a pig trailer (typical caravan) with an overhung hitch.

....and you cannot judge the Weight Distribution just by looking at the "shell"........ KB

Cheers,
Peter

Brodie Allen · Guru

The van in the Canberra pic is much larger than the Dutch thing.

And Continental vans are notoriously lighter than Aussie built vans.

Does anybody know the tare of Spaceland vans of this size?

I'll wager that the rig doesn't comply GCM-wise.

Craig1 · Guru

a 30 foot 2017 listed for sale has a tri axle suspension with a claimed 2880kg tare

Brodie Allen · Guru

Craig1 wrote:
a 30 foot 2017 listed for sale has a tri axle suspension with a claimed 2880kg tare

Must be made with origami!

Are We Lost · Guru

There is a 26 foot Spaceland listed for sale with the Heritage label on it. Would it be bigger than that? The Tare is said to be 2800kg and ATM 3126kg. It appears to have a front bedroom with kitchen mid or forward of the axles. Hard to undertsand the weight distribution with all that bodywork forward. A small payload, and is the Tare to be trusted?

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 2nd of August 2021 04:55:37 PM

yobarr · Guru

Craig1 wrote:
a 30 foot 2017 listed for sale has a tri axle suspension with a claimed 2880kg tare

Yes,I found a couple with LaLa land tares around 3000kg,but ATM of less than 3400kg,making them useless.Limiting your carrying capacity to 400kg would mean there'd be little left after gas bottles and water were added.These vans would likely be bought only by those with zero understanding of weights,and the LC200 can't safely tow one either. Cheers

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:

And Continental vans are notoriously lighter than Aussie built vans.

They can be built strong AND light here too, it is not "secret" technology. But while the buyers don't insist on it, the manufacturers won't bother.

Cheers,

Peter

Brodie Allen · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:

And Continental vans are notoriously lighter than Aussie built vans.

They can be built strong AND light here too, it is not "secret" technology. But while the buyers don't insist on it, the manufacturers won't bother.
Cheers,
Peter

So if the "lighter" technology isn't current how can these monsters (30' + as calculated from pic) legal?

I have found some at 32' on the web.

Who would buy one if they arent?

Bit of a quandary I think.

KJB · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:

And Continental vans are notoriously lighter than Aussie built vans.

They can be built strong AND light here too, it is not "secret" technology. But while the buyers don't insist on it, the manufacturers won't bother.
Cheers,
Peter
So if the "lighter" technology isn't current how can these monsters (30' + as calculated from pic) legal?
I have found some at 32' on the web.
Who would buy one if they arent?
Bit of a quandary I think.

Many 30' and longer vans are towed using a truck and a "soft hitch"......... KB

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
There is a 26 foot Spaceland listed for sale with the Heritage label on it. Would it be bigger than that? The Tare is said to be 2800kg and ATM 3126kg. It appears to have a front bedroom with kitchen mid or forward of the axles. Hard to undertsand the weight distribution with all that bodywork forward. A small payload, and is the Tare to be trusted?

If the figures highlighted above are indeed correct,that van is useless.Who on earth is stupid enough to think that carrying capacity of 326kg,which includes everything from gas bottles,water,food,clothes,beer etc etc is going to be anywhere near enough? On paper,I have carrying capacity of 1760kg,and even as a solo traveller,I'm right up there most of the time.Solar panels,batteries,inverter,diesel heater,heaps of water,books,air fryer,microwave,175 litre fridge/freezer,slow cooker, pots and pans,induction cooker etc etc means there's little capacity to spare.Carrying capacity of 326kg? They're living in LaLa Land.Cheers

Brodie Allen · Guru

KJB wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:

And Continental vans are notoriously lighter than Aussie built vans.

They can be built strong AND light here too, it is not "secret" technology. But while the buyers don't insist on it, the manufacturers won't bother.
Cheers,
Peter
So if the "lighter" technology isn't current how can these monsters (30' + as calculated from pic) legal?
I have found some at 32' on the web.
Who would buy one if they arent?
Bit of a quandary I think.

Many 30' and longer vans are towed using a truck and a "soft hitch"......... KB

That might be fine, but behind a 3500kg limited Land Cruiser?

Time random checking at heavy vehicle weighstations was instigated.

-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Wednesday 4th of August 2021 08:40:17 AM

yobarr · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
KJB wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:

And Continental vans are notoriously lighter than Aussie built vans.
They can be built strong AND light here too, it is not "secret" technology. But while the buyers don't insist on it, the manufacturers won't bother.
Cheers, Peter
So if the "lighter" technology isn't current how can these monsters (30' + as calculated from pic) legal?
I have found some at 32' on the web.
Who would buy one if they arent?
Bit of a quandary I think.
Many 30' and longer vans are towed using a truck and a "soft hitch"......... KB
That might be fine, but behind a 3500kg limited Land Cruiser?
Time random checking at heavy vehicle weighstations was instigated.

X2

And the sooner such testing was started,the better off we all would be. Sometimes,talking to others at free camps,this subject comes up,and don't the owners of these dreamers machines get indignant and aggro when it is pointed out to them that there is no way known that they can legally and safely tow a 3500kg ATM van,have a tinny on the roof of the car,and have the rear of car full of stuff,including their esky. "It's all legal,as I've got the 3800kg GVM upgrade" is the waffle I regularly hear. Dreamers,with NO understanding of weights.Cheers.

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 4th of August 2021 01:10:10 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Really all these vehicles are on there max for consistent towing . A 4 ton truck would be a better choice Imo !

yobarr · Guru

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Really all these vehicles are on there max for consistent towing . A 4 ton truck would be a better choice Imo !

Agreed,Graeme,but not only are these cars "on their max for consistent towing",they also are overloaded,unsafe and uninsured. As I have said before,the sooner that towing laws applicable to vehicles with a GVM over 4500kg are introduced for ALL tow vehicles,the better off we all will be.For those unfamiliar with those laws,if a tow vehicle has a GVM over 4500kg,any PIG trailer that it tows must ALWAYS weigh less than the tow vehicle. This is why earthmoving contractors etc often have to put a couple of ton of dirt in the back of the truck if they wish to tow a PIG trailer that is carrying their excavator,or bulldozer,or whatever.This rubbish about Ma and Pa Kettle hooking a 3500kg ATM van behind their 6000kg GCM twin-cab,and other equally unsuitable vehicles,and setting off to see the world,MUST be stopped.And the sooner the better.If safety is of ANY concern,ALWAYS the weight on the wheels of the car MUST be AT LEAST 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van.Simple physics.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 6th of August 2021 04:08:55 PM