Weight difference will be insignificant . For us the cons outweigh the pros with poptops unless you have a low area at home where you need to park like a carport or garage
was looking at pop tops for less weight and more clearance yes/no ?
Paul,
as you asked previously about a low weight 21 foot van, which you likely wont get in a pop top, it would probable help if you could give a longer explanation of what you are trying to get so that people can give a more useful answer.
Such things as if weight or length is the most important measurement? What you want in a van as far as amenities? How you intend to use it? Are you constrained by where you will store the van? All of these things help for you to get better advice. Give as much information as you can, and you will get much better answers.
People here have answers that can help. They just need to know what your real questions are.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Thursday 31st of December 2020 09:09:57 AM
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Regards Ian
Chaos, mayhem, confusion. Good my job here is done
Remember overhead cupboards have lower profile and shower is now open at the top to let moisture./steam into the van. In the past with timber frome vans it was expressed by some that they are not a rigid. With fibreglass one piece construction these days that might not be the issue it once was.
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16.5 Discovery 4 with a few mods and New Age MR 16' Deluxe
I am a big fan of a hard top. Only real advantage I can see to a pop top is storage and maybe less wind drag, but the inconvenience of having to put the top up and the canvas side section turns me off them straight away, particularly on a van of any size.
I have had both type; Preference is for true hard top aluminium panel full van.
With pop-top can't have roof mounted TV aerial, Satellite system, Air conditioner, etc. Canvas or vinyl bellows prone to leakage problems. Zippered windows in bellows damage and jam, Mould is constant worry in creviced areas of bellows, behind window flap, etc.
There is no weight advantage to pop-top as roofing needs extra internal reinforcement for strength.
Cannot just duck in van for a cuppa and sandwich whilst travelling. Pain in backside to undo awning, undo fastening lever/clips, pop the top and fasten, then reverse the process to get back on road.
Possibility (probability) forgetting to ensure cam lock clips fastened correctly.
Awning become problematic on pop-top.
Effort required to lift roof/top, physical limitations for elderly or injured shoulders/rotor cuff, wrists and elbows - injuries may actually occur because of the lift effort. Even fit people have sometime or other injure themselves.
Definite disadvantage to short people (not my problem) to reach lifting bar to roof.
Not suitable for tallish persons as they do not manufacture (unless to special order) for those over 1.8m tall - always hitting head on door on entry and exit.
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Possum; AKA:- Ali El-Aziz Mohamed Gundawiathan
Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon, message sticks and smoke signals.
Our Paramount Pop Top has enough clearance for cuppa when down. Me just on the 1.8m. The Wineguard aerial seems ok.Dont know about how heavy sattelite ones are. Have 2 110w solar panels permanently mounted. I would now consider an air lift if buying again. Just take care with zips on windows, we use a little extension on the pull bit. To me no drama with awning, just have to buy specific anti flaps.
Our shower has a roof vent with fan and the curtains go up and down with the roof.
Yes, less overheads. But for me the lower tow profile gives a lot of comfort to my mind.
I am a big fan of a hard top. Only real advantage I can see to a pop top is storage and maybe less wind drag, but the inconvenience of having to put the top up and the canvas side section turns me off them straight away, particularly on a van of any size.
How do you intend using the caravan? A few observations below for consideration...
Heat / Cold: If you are going to use it in hot areas or at hot times, the full height vans are better because they have SOME insulation (not much). A poptop has NO insulation. Yes - the roof panel is insulated, but you gain (or lose) a lot of heat in the vinyl section of the walls. But if you have an expanda type van, you gain/lose a lot of heat in the extensions too...
Fuel Consumption: If, like me, you intend travelling a lot, the poptop's lower projected area creates a lot less drag and hence lower fuel consumption.
Stability while towing: A poptop is a lot more stable to tow in cross winds or from buffeting by buses and semi-trailers than a full height van. Overall, I think that a poptop is a more stable rig. How many pictures of a poptop caravan have you seen overturned? I cannot think of any, but there have been lots of pictures of full height vans flipped.
Poptops don't have much elevated storage facilities (overhead cupboards etc), and hence the weight when travelling would tend to be lower, resulting in more stability.
Stability when parked: In windy conditions, the poptop roof can get blown around a bit. Not as badly as a camper trailer, but even so the roof does move at times.
Setting up: Typically, there is not much difference between full height and poptop in setup and pack up times and troubles. Now if you have a wind up camper trailer, then there is a major difference but poptop and full height - not much in it.
Weight: A poptop van is heavier than the equivalent length full height van, because they have a substantial perimeter frame at the top of the walls.
Maintenance and general caring for the van: A poptop is easier to keep clean. You still need a ladder to access the center of the roof to clean/polish it, but it is a lot easier than a full height van.
Garaging and Storage: A poptop is far easier to store than a full height van. You need a very high shed to hose a full height van. We wash (and polish) our poptop after a trip away before storing it in the shed. This means carefully drying the vinyl section, because if it goes away wet, mould will soon start and then be very difficult to remove later.
To sum up, if you intend to take the van once a year to the beach for 3 weeks, the full height van is probably the way to go. But if you want to get out and see the country and travel a lot, a poptop comes into consideration. I would much rather tow a poptop any day than a full height van - the whole rig is so much more stable than a full height setup.
If you are going to live in it full time, definitely a full height van
Like Possum3, I have had both - a Jayco Freedom then a Sterling. The pop top wasn't the actual reason for going to the larger Sterling - we wanted an on-board en suite.
That said, the first thing we noticed was that the skirt (I believe is actually called a 'sock') of the pop top did not have any insulative properties - in summer the aircon was hard pressed to keep cool, and in winter was hard to keep warm.
Of course, the several times when I forgot to clamp the roof down before driving off didn't endear me to pop tops!
Then there was the time one of the gas struts leaked black oily residue. Lifting the top up took a fair bit of effort without the support. On lowering the roof without the working strut put it out of alignment - the clamps couldn't be locked so had to tie the roof down with a rope across it. And putting the replacement strut on was another story!
So for me, I wouldn't go back to a pop top.
Notwithstanding my experiences, Erad has given lots of thing to consider to make a decision.
We have had both. Our van at present is a 16 foot pop top and that is because of space in our yard and clearance in carport.
But the van does have rooftop aircon, TV aerial, and solar panel. Good gas struts are needed to assist here. Im about 510 and can walk around inside with the top down. I imagine raising the roof will be a problem as I get older. If you need to use a cover for the van, pop tops can be a little bit easier, but still a chore. But if a full van can work for you, go for it.
What happens with a pop top when you want to pull over for lunch or a cuppa? Do you pop the roof or walk around inside crouched over?
From my above post : Cannot just duck in van for a cuppa and sandwich whilst travelling. Pain in backside to undo awning, undo fastening lever/clips, pop the top and fasten, then reverse the process to get back on road.
Possibility (probability) forgetting to ensure cam lock clips fastened correctly. Awning become problematic on pop-top.
Additionally utilising gas stove to boil kettle or heat food problematic as it cannot be used; Ventilation insufficient creating Carbon Monoxide hazard (Deadly) also extra heat absorbtion by lowered roof.
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Possum; AKA:- Ali El-Aziz Mohamed Gundawiathan
Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon, message sticks and smoke signals.
Possum. Our pop top. Walk to van from car. Take key. Insert into lock, turn key, open door, step into van, walk around in van at full height. Not crouched over. Take preprepared thermos, make tea, sit at table, (or outside if we want to.) Im sure there are some pop tops that are lower than ours. Might be hard for you to accept, but not all are created equal.
Ours too....can walk around upright inside with top down ( I am 182 cm )...can use stove , dunny , wash hands etc. Cant get into shower ...or open main wardrobe between beds due to raising/ lowering frames...and I need to dodge middle of A/C if I have boots on...which arent really allowed inside anyway.
The modern poptops are wwaaaayyy better than the older ones hey. The equivalent full size van in the range is about 200 kgs heavier too...plus the lower height of ours makes it heaps easier to tow and store...as I dont have an abundance of horses in my tow vehicle...but this is overcome a little by an abundance of gears.
Cheers Keith
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Nuthin is ever the same once I have owned it ......
Yep, us too Keith. Our pop top is max height at 2.4 (8 foot and no probs)
I am seeing a few comments on imagined problems and insecurities in the minds of folks, rather than the realities of their use. I have had both and there is no doubt that a pop top presents different storage issues. I have none, and the few cupboards, lower down are totally adequate.
In Qld I much prefer the pop top for warm areas, and the heater is fine in cold climates.
There are no overall weight savings in a pop top but it is definitely a more compressed load centre of gravity wise.
Consider it carefully on merit not supposed merit. I don't know any one who has to put up their top for a road side stop for example.
There is a 12 volt fan that expels air from the gas stove. It works with out the fan by law.
I reckon the trade off with a full van has to be appreciated though; No sense In a pop top unless you have height restrictions or have a concern with wind resistance in towing. It is obvious that concerns a really to do with conceptual views, and some unknown reason for agenda based biases.
Old age a problem...can be...but I am 74 and lift the top on my own....just saying.
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:13:58 AM
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:14:21 AM
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:17:39 AM
Yep, us too Keith. Our pop top is max height at 2.4 (8 foot and no probs)
I am seeing a few comments on imagined problems and insecurities in the minds of folks, rather than the realities of their use. I have had both and there is no doubt that a pop top presents different storage issues. I have none, and the few cupboards, lower down are totally adequate.
In Qld I much prefer the pop top for warm areas, and the heater is fine in cold climates.
There are no overall weight savings in a pop top but it is definitely a more compressed load centre of gravity wise.
Consider it carefully on merit not supposed merit. I don't know any one who has to put up their top for a road side stop for example.
There is a 12 volt fan that expels air from the gas stove. It works with out the fan by law.
I reckon the trade off with a full van has to be appreciated though; No sense In a pop top unless you have height restrictions or have a concern with wind resistance in towing. It is obvious that concerns a really to do with conceptual views, and some unknown reason for agenda based biases.
Old age a problem...can be...but I am 74 and lift the top on my own....just saying.
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:13:58 AM
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:14:21 AM
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:17:39 AM
Yep..agree with all your thoughts hey...except for the weight bit. The equivalent full size van to our poptop in the Jayco range is tared at 198 kg heavier...but thats on paper too...in reality it may be different. I,m 68 and have truckie shoulders ( read = stuffed ! )...and I can open ours easily with solar ,A/C, and wineguard on roof...altho in the rain with water on roof...tis a bit of a grunt....but that doesnt happen much anyway. there is not much difference in price tho...but heaps in ease of towing and safety...as well as storage.
Cheers Keith
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Nuthin is ever the same once I have owned it ......
Yep, us too Keith. Our pop top is max height at 2.4 (8 foot and no probs)
I am seeing a few comments on imagined problems and insecurities in the minds of folks, rather than the realities of their use. I have had both and there is no doubt that a pop top presents different storage issues. I have none, and the few cupboards, lower down are totally adequate.
In Qld I much prefer the pop top for warm areas, and the heater is fine in cold climates.
There are no overall weight savings in a pop top but it is definitely a more compressed load centre of gravity wise.
Consider it carefully on merit not supposed merit. I don't know any one who has to put up their top for a road side stop for example.
There is a 12 volt fan that expels air from the gas stove. It works with out the fan by law.
I reckon the trade off with a full van has to be appreciated though; No sense In a pop top unless you have height restrictions or have a concern with wind resistance in towing. It is obvious that concerns a really to do with conceptual views, and some unknown reason for agenda based biases.
Old age a problem...can be...but I am 74 and lift the top on my own....just saying.
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:13:58 AM
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:14:21 AM
-- Edited by dieseltojo on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 10:17:39 AM
Yep..agree with all your thoughts hey...except for the weight bit. The equivalent full size van to our poptop in the Jayco range is tared at 198 kg heavier...but thats on paper too...in reality it may be different. I,m 68 and have truckie shoulders ( read = stuffed ! )...and I can open ours easily with solar ,A/C, and wineguard on roof...altho in the rain with water on roof...tis a bit of a grunt....but that doesnt happen much anyway. there is not much difference in price tho...but heaps in ease of towing and safety...as well as storage.
Cheers Keith
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Nuthin is ever the same once I have owned it ......
Hi refrain,
I have a pop top for a few reasons - storage under carport, ventilation (is far superior in the tropics, where I live), internal height - I can stand up in it without having to duck under low ceilings, lights & airconditioner panels! Short people seem to be catered for far better than those of us who are tall!
Weight would be about the same as the roof is *!!* heavy! Yes, it's difficult for frail oldies to push them up initially but good gas struts help too. Storage might be a concern but we don't find that an issue - it is only the wall that is shorter, the same cupboards are there.
While we live in the tropics, we do have family in the states that are locked out at the moment so we know what winter is like. So yes, they are slightly cooler with no insulation on the vinyl.
If we get caught in a storm, we can drop the lid & live snugly in a slightly reduced height van. You can't do that in a full sized van.
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Warren
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If you don't get it done today, there's always tomorrow!
As with dieseltojo, I see a lot of excuses that aren't valid.
Stop overs for lunch, etc are hard in a pop top? We carry one or two thermos flasks for the times we want a hot coffee, cup-of-soup, mostly we don't bother, preferring our cold drinks in the car.
We are not yet in the category of travellers when going from A-B that we need to open the van for a kip part way.
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Warren
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If you don't get it done today, there's always tomorrow!
Just another thing to throw into the mix. I had the same dilemma, pop-top or fixed. I wanted to store it under the car port. My solution was to get a pair of "Caravan storage wheels" which are reduced diameter solid steel rims with a thin solid rubber 'tyre'. These lowered it by enough to squeeze the full sized van under the car port - just!
-- Edited by Mamil on Monday 4th of January 2021 07:06:36 PM
We did a lot of research before buying our first van in 2017 and we opted for full height. A lot of the pros and cons are listed above already, but the only time I wish for a pop-top is when driving/towing; never when stopped.
If only we didn't have that headwind,
If only that servo had a higher roof,
If only those trees weren't so low,
No real regrets.
We are now in our second pop top over 20 plus years in Queensland and would not consider a hard top. Roof up in 2 minutes if required. Better ventilation and cooling love all the fresh air that flows through. And can see all around outside. Have always been warm even in 0 degrees overnight.Cheers Stewart.
