I've just bought a secondhand Jayco caravan, 14 years old. I got a mechanic to say it was mechanically sound and I was there when he was. He replaced the wheel bearings.
He said not to use the handbrake because people forget it's on and wreck the brakes. I asked him how it works and he said the cable pulls the brakes on. The van was jacked and he spun the tire while it was on, it wasn't very effective. I know in my cars that you can still drive off with the handbrake on (not far, but it doesn't hold them braked, they still let you move, and the car then yells at you that you've forgotten).
I searched the forum, somebody had driven with it on and there's a thread about whether to leave the handbrake on at home that said something about stretching the cable.
I've discovered that my driveway has a bit of an incline, so I have been pulling on the handbrake as well as chocking the tires. I can only pull it a little bit (to the first "thingie").
Was the brake guy full of it? Are caravan handbrakes not all they cracked up to be? Might there be an actual problem with the handbrake on my van that he wasn't telling me about? If I can only pull it up a little bit, are the brakes even going on?
(I have my own mechanic, and I'll ask him when I next see him, but I'm trying to learn what I can online.)
G'day hufnpuf,
A mechanic? Did/do you know this bloke personally, would you trust him with your car?
He should have given you a report on the condition of the brakes when he replaced the bearings AND he should have set the handbrake correctly. If he didn't do either of these things, he's an oxygen thief, as well as a hip pocket thief!
Yes, twice I've driven with the hand brake on ( but not ON). First time was with our Eagle, the last time was in June this year. I have a habit of checking my hub temp & in both cases yes they were hotter than normal. My immediate thought was the hand brake! And in both cases the engine power was down a bit.
When adjusted correctly, the van should not move when the brake is pulled up tight. You have a slopy drive, as do I. And I guess you don't want to be run over by your van when connecting, disconnecting the van. That brake is your safety. Then chock the wheels if required.
I try to stick to a stingent list when coupling up. If someone interrupts you, tell them to rack off, the go through your list again! I've also painted the brake lever a bright (e.g. fluro) colour so it stands out like a sore toe.
Hope this helps.
__________________
Warren
----------------
If you don't get it done today, there's always tomorrow!
As a three time Jayco owner do not rely on the handbrake when disconnected from the tug. Always use chocks whether it is on an incline or not. Cannot speak for other makes but the Jayco handbrake is, at best, in my experience, only 50% efficient if that. If a three ton van gets on a roll they are VERY difficult to stop. Good luck.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Sunday 11th of October 2020 11:25:30 AM
Thanks for the replies. Differing opinions there, Warren-Pat saying that the handbrake will hold it, Magnarc saying that Jayco are a bit crap EDITED TO ADD in the handbrake department, based on his observations/opinions of the efficiency of the handbrake on his van. I've been putting bricks behind the tires and the jockey wheel is down. The driveway is only slightly sloping, prior to bringing this van home I would have told you that it's flat.... :D (My van is atm 1200-ish, but I wouldn't be able to stop it if it rolled, nobody could.)
Warren-Pat, I don't know the guy and don't know whether I'd trust him with my car (I don't have to think about it, because I've got a good mechanic of my own), partly why I'm asking for opinions about what he told me. (I'm still going to use the handbrake, I'll just add it to the checklist of things to check. Whenarewethere, that's a good idea, about the visual reminder. Might do that as well....
-- Edited by hufnpuf on Monday 12th of October 2020 10:18:01 AM
I dont use the handbrake at all on our van, 21 foot, 2.75 tonne Jayco Outback.
Our drive is too steep in my opinion to trust it, so I chock the wheels and no brake at all. It is chocked with large rocks, not plastic chocks.
When on road, instead of brakes I use X Chocks between the wheels on the tandem. They hold the van on any site size slope, and also on the levellers when I need to level side to side. I trust them totally, and once again do not use brake.
I used to use the brake, but now happily trust the items I have changed to.
__________________
Regards Ian
Chaos, mayhem, confusion. Good my job here is done
I went up to the auto parts shop to buy some purpose built chocks (the ones that go with the levelling ramps aren't proper width, they only go on the ramp) but they didn't have any (sigh). My van is only single axle so those x-chock things aren't an option. I was thinking about getting some wheel clamps for security, if I use chocks and those, the van shouldn't be going anywhere until the car pulls it somewhere. hopefully.
hufnpuf,
If you have any doubts, place a couple if chocks a few feet in front of the wheels, release the brake - when the van moves pull the brake on hard. If it still moves, you have brakes that are either poorly adjusted or have no material on the shoes.
MY van will not move if the brake is on hard - even when connected to the car. The car will scrub the van tyres.
Both of my vans have been the Jayco brand. They like most other manufacturers using parts from other manufacturers e.g. axles, brake assemblies, doors, stoves fridges - the list is endless. Jayco build the van as economically safe as they can for a price. Why reinvent the wheel, adding $$$ to the cost.
There is one item on a Jayco van that is branded "Jayco" - the alloy wheels! They are not interchangeable with other brands, are made in the PRC & cost oodles of dollars.
That saying, my drive is not up a steep track - if that was the case, I'd be adding some logs under it! OR I WOULD NOT OWN A CARAVAN AT ALL! One does not want to tempt fate!!
SERVICING & REGULAR MTCE will ensure you have long & safe travels on the road.
Can I ask you & Magnarc how many crap Jayco vans do you see on the road?
There are hundreds of "J" vans on the road, I'd think that most owners are relatively happy with a caravan that doesn't cost a mint, does what they expect. I' like a better van too but does spending more $$ make that a better van?
__________________
Warren
----------------
If you don't get it done today, there's always tomorrow!
Can I ask you & Magnarc how many crap Jayco vans do you see on the road?
We're only talking about the handbrake efficacy and, in my case, the handbrake on a 14-yr-old van. I like Jayco, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it/looked at them. (My van doesn't have alloy wheels, just garden variety steel.) They might have improved the handbrake design since my van was built?
I'm not going to do any experiments to test the handbrake (I weigh next to nothing, and I'm not sure bricks would stop it rolling if it even started. The incline is very slight.) I was watching the guy when he had the brakes off. The brakes worked perfectly, the brakes when the handbrake cable was pulled didn't, the wheels still moved. Whether that's a design fault or a fixable problem I'll find out when my mechanic looks at it.
I would suggest that you find out the proper setting for your hand brake or go to a jayco dealer and have it adjusted correctly as what you have described it is not adjusted correctly Best regards Les
-- Edited by Les Bishop on Monday 12th of October 2020 07:21:09 AM
Whoa there Hufnpuf. I did not say that Jaycos were crap! I said that the handbrakes were well known to not be as effective as they should. If you want to get advice that this forum has to offer then I suggest that you read and inwardly digest the replies before placing fingers on the keyboard. I presently have a 2010 Jayco and, apart from a few very minor problems, it has been a very reliable van. Consider yourself admonished!!!! (smile)
Whoa there Hufnpuf. I did not say that Jaycos were crap! I said that the handbrakes were well known to not be as effective as they should. If you want to get advice that this forum has to offer then I suggest that you read and inwardly digest the replies before placing fingers on the keyboard. I presently have a 2010 Jayco and, apart from a few very minor problems, it has been a very reliable van. Consider yourself admonished!!!! (smile)
Sorry, I know you didn't, and my reply wasn't intended to be broader than the specific topic we're discussing to impute negativity about the brand. I've amended the post for clarity (hopefully :D), the bit in italics was implied. If you want me to amend it further or change it, let me know. I didn't intend to upset people.
My use of the word "crap" (qualified by "a bit" :D) was based on your information that you thought the handbrake efficiency was only 50% based on your observation and experience of your van. To me, something should be 100% to not be deficient, to only work half as well as perfectly is, to me, crappy. Personal opinion and my descriptor, not yours.
As well, a small sample size of a few users posting online does not represent the general crappiness of any component or any component on any specific brand, including the handbrake efficacy. As suggested, there could be defects, or inadequate adjustment, on only those vans where people consider them not to work well. I'm just trying to suss out what this guy told me (it could have been- 'this handbrake doesn't work properly, I can't be bothered fiddling to fix it, I'll just tell this clueless old git not to use it"). In my experience of the handbrakes on cars, I personally don't think handbrakes are all they cracked up to be, so I didn't think what he was telling me was necessarily nonsense.
Mike Harding, thanks, yes I liked the look of those heavy duty rubber chocks, the only potential downside is the weight of all of this stuff I'm acquiring and will be putting in the front boot. Even the plastic levelling ramps I bought are not particularly light. I'm sure it'll all be ok in the long run, it's just something else to worry about......
(BTW how come I'm a "veteran member", I've only been here a virtual minute :D They should designate me a "clueless newb" for longer so people won't get upset with me if I put things badly..... :D)
I have a Jayco 3T van, the hand brake works fine for me, its just a matter of getting the next notch on the quadrant. I wouldn't park it on a slope and rely on the hand brake alone, that would be daft, but must at some point purchase some chocks capable of supporting the vans weight instead of the rubbish that's normally sold, and that I have gone and brought.
Back again,
I use a Supercheap rubber chock. It's the "smaller(??)" brother according to Mike's link, It's a monster to the others that are on the market!! I'd hate to see & store the larger one! Had it for years. I use it on one wheel, put two smaller metal chicks in front of the other wheel.
My van ain't going nowhere!
__________________
Warren
----------------
If you don't get it done today, there's always tomorrow!
Yes, it's a pretty decent discount, I was happy to see them at such a good price and just grabbed them, stopped umming and ahhing about whether to get the lighter plastic type. They've also got wheel clamps on sale (the homebrand ones) so I grabbed one of those as well. I have to leave the van out the front so it may act as another deterrent if anyone wants to pinch it, also it should keep my insurer nice and happy that I've got the towball lock and a wheel clamp. Sounds good, even if it wouldn't stop somebody with a decent angle grinder. If it does get pinched, they won't be able to say it's my fault.
Thanks for the tip about putting them in the doorway, I'll do that if things are too heavy up front. I could also put them in the car. It's technically a 7-seater (the little seats are folded down) and there's a little well area behind the middle seats which seems a good spot to put a couple of things. I've put my little toolbag in there.
I also have a van that the hand brake is not good. I replaced both hubs and backing plates with all new shoes. Also installed new cable , rerouted the the cable to get a straighter pull.NO BETTER.
The main thing I do is ...not to disconnect the safety chains from the car until the van is chocked and safe.I still use the brakes as well.
I usually back my van into position...this would make the brake shoes rotate backwards...perhaps when hand brake is applied they may not have the leading shoes in the forward position ?
Happy to hear comments re this
Les
-- Edited by Leshill on Tuesday 20th of October 2020 12:46:10 AM
I usually back my van into position...this would make the brake shoes rotate backwards...perhaps when hand brake is applied they may not have the leading shoes in the forward position ?
From the demo the "brake guy" gave by spinning the wheel when the van was jacked up, I don't think it would make any difference? When he spun the wheel with the handbrake cable pulled on, the wheel didn't suddenly hit a point where it stopped, it still moved. When the brakes were applied not via the handbrake cable, the wheel stopped, didn't move a millimetre.
Yes, your point about chocking before removing the van from the car is a good one, that's what I'll be doing. (I wonder if I need 4 chocks instead of 2? I saw a photo of a van on the flat and it had one in front of and behind each tire...)
Interestingly, the "caravan person" at the manufacturers' agent told me not to rely on the handbrake when I mentioned this topic. (I went for them to show me how to work everything in the van I've bought.)
Unfortunately the quality of handbrakes fitted to vehicles goes deeper than just caravans. Ask a Toyota Hilux owner how efficient the hand brake is even if adjusted correctly, its poor I own one and would not use it to hold the vehicle and trailer when unloading/loading my boat. The Ford Courier 4WD and Daihatsu 4WD that preceded the Hilux ownership were not better. Brake linings on all vehicles were and are in good order on all vehicles and functioned efficiently using the brake pedal.
+1 for Chocks, they're the go for safety. The problem with the hand brakes (as I see it) is the ratio between the handle and the cables. You're lucky if you get a 2-1 ratio, and it's nowhere near enough. On my old Van I moved the cable in closer to the hand brake pivot and the brakes were much more effective. The other problem you have is that the cable guides on the chassis (in most cases) are just a chain link welded to the chassis causing extra drag when you're trying to pull the brakes on.
Hi Drum brakes depend on many items to be done right to work
drum linnings come in different compounds --softer linnings actually work Over heated linnings go hard and reduce handbrake effectiveness alot Serviced with emery tape drum and shoes and clean Linnings assembled correctly leading and trailing shoe .back to front reduces h/brake effectiveness .. Some kits do same length shoes ,this also reduces effective ness .
ALL HANDBRAKES --work some require way more servicing than others to maintain --auto disc brakes are less efficient than a traditional drum setup
Specific to a trailer is cable setup --having only 1-2 click is wrong operator needs more leverage
Always use chocks on a van etc
-- Edited by swamp on Thursday 12th of November 2020 05:47:22 PM
-- Edited by swamp on Thursday 12th of November 2020 05:48:24 PM
Legally you MUST use the handbrake when parked - that is the law. You can use chocks, bricks even the mother-in-law to chock the wheels but that handbrake must still be applied.
There is a simple solution: find a length of thinwall steel tubing with an inside diameter sufficient to slip over the handbrake lever then cut it to twice the length of the handbrake lever. Paint it bright red.
When you park the van, apply the handbrake just a few notches and then slip the red tubing over the lever and fully apply the handbrake. It should then hold the van as with the red tubing you are doubling the pull on the lever. Leave it on the handbrake so you don't forget to release it - it's red so pretty hard to miss.
When you park the van, apply the handbrake just a few notches
I can only pull it one notch...
That's a good idea, with leverage I should be able to pull it on more. Thanks for the advice that it's obligatory, I have been using it despite what "that guy" told me, so I'm good. I don't think I'm likely to forget to pull it off, there are things you have to do on the drawbar so it's just another step. The red handle will be a good additional reminder.
When you park the van, apply the handbrake just a few notches
I can only pull it one notch...
SNIP
I mentioned 'apply the handbrake a few notches' so as to raise it above the coupling otherwise the red pipe fouls the coupling, but I think you got the drift.
I mentioned 'apply the handbrake a few notches' so as to raise it above the coupling otherwise the red pipe fouls the coupling, but I think you got the drift.
thanks yes, I think I can pull it up sufficiently to add the lever/extension
