Carbon Monoxide Danger

vince56 · Senior Member

Carbon Monoxide Danger

Bicyclecamper · Guru

I have an old kero heater that I use sometimes, out in the van. I feel it is safer then the gas, but do know, that I must have a window opened to use it. We have two monoxide meters , both at head height and at bed height. We have never had a problem. This thing puts out serious heat, and keeps the kettle hot,. That said, I am looking at putting in a gas ducted heating system, that exhausts outside. I don't want diesel at all.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 31st of August 2020 05:16:20 PM

blaze · Guru

we used to heat our 14 foot tent with one, Used to light it about 1 hour before the kids went to bed and when they all got their pjs on, it was turned off. Light it again in the morning while they got dressed and turned off again. Where we camped there was often 6 inches of snow outside. Good fishing and the lids loved it, run from daylight to dark. Never lost any of my kids
cheers
blaze

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Carbon monoxide poisoning is cumulative and permanent.
A little bit today and a little bit more next week all adds up together. And you might never notice it until it is much too late.
Don't mess with it. It is simply not worth the risks.
"It won't happen to me...."

Cheers,

Peter

yobarr · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Carbon monoxide poisoning is cumulative and permanent.
A little bit today and a little bit more next week all adds up together. And you might never notice it until it is much too late.
Don't mess with it. It is simply not worth the risks.
"It won't happen to me...."
Cheers,
Peter

Good information Peter.......using the "logic" contained in previous posts,I now can now be comfortable that regularly driving my road car at more than 270km/hr is indeed perfectly safe..... must be,because I am not yet dead? .Cheers

JayDee · Guru

We have a little buddy gas heater. Never used it in enclosed area.

It is now for sale, Any offers??? We installed the diesel heater, and boy it is "" as warm as toast"" as the saying goes.

Better to use a couple of hot water bottles and an extra blanket or two.

My Dee radiates a lot of heat, but you will have to get your own, she is not for sale.

Jay& DEE

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Hi John,

So what you're saying is, Dee is hot in bed biggrin

Who said that confuse

Edit....pushed the wrong key.

Keep Safe out there.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Monday 31st of August 2020 07:34:08 PM

Digger2 · Member

I recently put a Chinese diesel heater in my poptop caravan. Works great. I also put in a Quell CO monitor. It runs 2 x 1.5V Batteries. So far it hasnt moved from zero (which is good). For $45 bucks.....its cheap insurance.

Bicyclecamper · Guru

When I lived in the cabin when I was young on dad's block, I used that same kero heater, that we have now, with the windows closed, and never died. I only used it sometimes, if the fire went out in the night, and I got cold. Lived thru many a winter with this kero heater. i can still get wicks for it.

dabbler · Guru

Carbon monoxide doesn't stay in your blood permanently. Carboxyhaemaglobin molecules(bound CO and Hb) are cleared in a few hours. It's only cumulative when CO concentration is too high for your bodies clearance/metabolization rate.The effects are real and can be permanent though. They come into play a different exposure for different groups with different conditions. Fatalities occur in about 1 in 6 people presenting with CO poisoning. That's too high for me to risk.

oldbloke · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Carbon monoxide poisoning is cumulative and permanent.
A little bit today and a little bit more next week all adds up together. And you might never notice it until it is much too late.
Don't mess with it. It is simply not worth the risks.
"It won't happen to me...."
Cheers,
Peter

That is utter nonsense. It isnt lead or mercury. It is not cumultive. This is the problem with the internet in general. Unqualified people repeat any garbage they read on face ache or forums.

The body removes it, but will take a few hours.

oldbloke · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
I have an old kero heater that I use sometimes, out in the van. I feel it is safer then the gas, but do know, that I must have a window opened to use it. We have two monoxide meters , both at head height and at bed height. We have never had a problem. This thing puts out serious heat, and keeps the kettle hot,. That said, I am looking at putting in a gas ducted heating system, that exhausts outside. I don't want diesel at all.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 31st of August 2020 05:16:20 PM

I'm unsure about kero heaters, but IF there are two vents or Windows open in a van it will be fine.

Gas heaters do not generally generate much CO. However if the oxygen is used up in an enclosed space by the heater, gas stove or people then the heater will begin to generate CO. If two vents are open it ensures a steady supply of fresh air. The vents should be well apart. e.g. at each end of the van. For example the door vent most vans have plus a window at the opposite end of the van needs to be open, say 1".

Having said that, never have one on in bed over night.

-- Edited by oldbloke on Monday 31st of August 2020 11:11:22 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

We used to use a lighter fuel stove, it worked well, but have returned to using our old original metho stove for cooking for safety. It takes a bit longer to cook but so be it.

We have never used either inside anywhere. Our issues are carbon monoxide & the fact both types of stoves have a flame..... a fire hazard.

We also have 2 fire extinguishers in the car.

dabbler · Guru

Oldbloke. Brain damage from lack of oxygen is irreversible (CO poisoning causes lack of oxygen). Brain damage from all causes is cumulative. As you say, ventilation is important and critical. In other words, don't try to totally block out the cold if you're using combustible fuels inside.

JayDee · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Hi John,

So what you're saying is, Dee is hot in bed

Who said that

Edit....pushed the wrong key.
Doug, I guess that you will have to draw your own thoughts, which I think you just di.
Any Doug, hope all is well with you in Victoria.
Jay&Dee

Keep Safe out there.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Monday 31st of August 2020 07:34:08 PM

Mike Harding · Guru

I do not wish to play down the seriousness of CO and indeed have a monitor which I regularly test by putting it near my camp fire but...

When I was a child in the UK (UK in winter = bloody cold) we did not have heating in the house and our warmth came from two paraffin heaters and/or a coal fire, as it was so cold all windows and doors were closed including internal doors. This situation was usual for people from our social group ie. poor. In addition rooms in such UK houses are small some being no larger than my caravan. The fire was an open coal fire which had a chimney but I cannot imagine it was 100% efficient and the paraffin heaters simply exhausted into the room. Bedrooms had no heating. I am not aware of anyone dying from CO poisoning at that time.

Before installing the diesel heater I would occasionally use the gas hob for heating for an hour or two and my CO alarm, 2.5m from the hob, did not indicate any reading on its digital display. Oz caravans have mandatory ventilation to minimise CO danger - although I currently have the intake covered :)

It's not instant death to do such things but every caravan should have a CO alarm and one should be fully aware of CO issues and *never* leave such heating on overnight or when sleepy. I don't understand why people use overnight heating... buy better bedding.

Tony LEE · Guru

Very common in the USA to use BigBuddy blue flame heaters or Olympic Catalytic heaters inside RVs and CO alarms aren't as popular as they are here. There was a Catalytic heater installed when we bought the motorhome as well as the normal propane furnace. I installed three CO detectors, one in each room and although the catalytic heater is used in preference to the furnace as long as a hard freeze isn't expected and not once has any of the readouts budged from zero. However, when the wind is blowing from a certain direction, we have several times had very rapid rises to very high levels of CO due to poor sealing of the Attwood HWS. I have tried several times to seal it properly but with less than complete success. In the truck camper in south America we had exactly the same problem from the propane fridge. Same problem with the Hobby motorhome in Germany. Without the CO detectors I've installed we would have been completely oblivious to the extreme danger - NOT from the supposedly super dangerous non vented heater in motorhomes without door vents or any form of permanent ventilation, but from approved major appliances supposedly installed in accordance with official requirements

Whenarewethere · Guru

In the early 60s in primary school on Sydney Northern Beaches, the school had those flattish squarish tank kerosene heaters. The students filled it each moring & lit it.

The drum of Kero & funnel were kept in the corner of the classroom.

With kero spills (which would flush out hundreds of ****roaches & the odd rat, all the girls would jump up onto the desks, loved that bit!) & fighting over who could light it. It was surprising with zero OH&S that we didn't get incinerated!

There was plenty of ventilation through the floorboards & rusty steel frame windows which could never be fully closed.

In summer the heat caused girls to faint.......

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

dabbler wrote:
Oldbloke. Brain damage from lack of oxygen is irreversible (CO poisoning causes lack of oxygen). Brain damage from all causes is cumulative. As you say, ventilation is important and critical. In other words, don't try to totally block out the cold if you're using combustible fuels inside.

Yep.

Cheers,

Peter

pomme · Senior Member

Mike Harding,

"When I was a child in the UK (UK in winter = bloody cold) we did not have heating in the house and our warmth came from two paraffin heaters and/or a coal fire, as it was so cold all windows and doors were closed including internal doors."

When i lived in the UK mike all the houses i lived in had vents built in in the walls of each room, was it the same where you lived ?
It was cold where i lived also, common to have frost on the inside of windows, and snowed in every winter, never been cold in this country.

Pomme.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

A good campanion ? Lol

Mike Harding · Guru

pomme wrote:
When i lived in the UK mike all the houses i lived in had vents built in in the walls of each room, was it the same where you lived ?
It was cold where i lived also, common to have frost on the inside of windows, and snowed in every winter, never been cold in this country.

Hi Pomme

The external walls had vents in order that the cavity between the two brick walls had fresh air circulating to prevent a build up of water between the walls but there were no air vents on the inside walls of the house.

Many is the time I recall ice on the inside of the windows - we were tough little buggers :)

vince56 · Senior Member

May I suggest to make it clear to all that as a golden rule don't use a gas open flame heater inside a van or tent, the heater is depleting oxygen in the air constantly and IS CERTAINLY producing Carbon Monoxide that WILL kill you in the right circumstances, it is simply not worth the risk.
I have not seen one of these units that does not come with a warning not to use it in an enclosed space!
I don't believe we should be saying if you have these vents or a window slightly open that all is OK, it is still Russian Roulette.
My message is don't take the chance ......

jeepnudger · Senior Member

I can not believe that people would be living on the edge of a fatality from not following manufacturer instructions, that certain appliances must not be used in caravans,tents etc. There are carbon monoxide alarms available at Bunnings you need to look for the right one DONOT grab the first alarm you see. Carbon monoxide is lighter than air and fills from top or I should say increases in density and slowly fills from top down . You are advised to install carb/monoxide alarm 1400mm above floor level so that if you were sleeping, the bed is below alarm level.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
pomme wrote:
When i lived in the UK mike all the houses i lived in had vents built in in the walls of each room, was it the same where you lived ?
It was cold where i lived also, common to have frost on the inside of windows, and snowed in every winter, never been cold in this country.
Hi Pomme
The external walls had vents in order that the cavity between the two brick walls had fresh air circulating to prevent a build up of water between the walls but there were no air vents on the inside walls of the house.
Many is the time I recall ice on the inside of the windows - we were tough little buggers :)

Many years ago on ABC Radio National I heard a story of how someone's grandparents lived.

Their house was in some cold part of NSW. Built out of wattle and daub, tin roof and dirt floor. In winter you would sit in front of the wood burner receiving third degree burns while icicles formed on your back. He didn't know how his grandparents survived!