Suspension

Itchum · Member

Suspension

Dougwe · Chief one feather

welcome to the gang Ivan, enjoy here and out in the playground.

I have roller rocker duel suspension with a shock at each wheel. 20' van at 2.7t.

Great on the black stuff and gravel but probably wouldn't go too far off road.

Keep Safe out there.

Wanda · Guru

Hi Itchum
There are better suspensions around, Cruisemaster, Control Rider and Alco, all independent suspensions with shockers, to name a few.
When buying second hand you don't get to choose sadly.
Google is your best friend here(checkout all of the above)
cheers
Ian

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I don't believe that independent suspension is of any value whatever on a caravan.
What is useful for off road conditions is a more compliant suspension so that the van and its contents get a better ride. That can be achieved with most suspension designs if that is the need.

The problem with most independent suspensions on caravans (apart from costing a lot more) is that many are not adjustable and wheel mis alignments are difficult to fix and also that they use coil springs which have no self damping so the dampers (shockers) have MUCH more work to do and wear out much faster than the same shockers on leaf springs which do have considerable self damping. They also are not load sharing which is a major negative, particularly in rougher conditions.

Stick with rocker/roller leaf springs with as long leaves as possible and have dampers fitted. They provide load sharing, are simple, reliable, cheap and easily and cheaply repaired.
Cheers,
Peter

Stephcott · Member

If you drive to the conditions and have the correct tyre pressures roller rocker will get you anywhere you want to go, our old van had load sharing roller rocker suspension and we went on plenty of rough tracks without any problems. Birdsville, Strezlecki Track, Innamincka.

New van has independent and Im a bit paranoid about wheel alignment and that if it gets out of alignment tyres will wear really quickly.

-- Edited by Stephcott on Wednesday 5th of August 2020 05:51:00 PM

Craig1 · Guru

Make sure that the roller rocker suspension has the 50mm lift RHS between it and chassis.

Possum3 · Guru

Current caravan Evernew caravans utilise Dexter Rocker/Roller suspensions www.dexteraxle.com.au/suspension/ (Eye and eye) suitable for moderate off-road.

Previous caravan had Alko independent suspension allegedly off-road spec - no end of trouble - manufacturer was unable to align correctly.

Radar · Guru

Itchum wrote:
Hi All,
if anyone has had trouble with rocker roller leaf suspension on dual axle, would be interested to hear about it, we're in the market for a 20 ft van with moderate offroad capabilitiy, hoping to be max 3200 kgs, and getting differing advice from sales people. Basically want a bit extra clearance to get into National Parks etc, strong enough for the odd pothole etc.
Sorry if this has been done before, new to the site.

I am very in favour of good old roller rocker suspension, load sharing, cheap to maintain, light weight, parts easily obtainable.

We do the odd bit of dirt road with our 2.8 tonne caravan and we take every back road we can find in our 60000ks of travel, just the other week, 2 new shackle pins because I could not get grease in. Very happy owner.

BAZZA44 · Senior Member

I think there is some confusion here with the original question and some answers.

Rocker roller suspension has an elongated eye at one end of each spring, this is for a roller that rolls back and forward in this eye.

Possums link shows a load sharing tandem rocker suspension that is quite suitable for most situations, including reasonable dirt roads. Just drive to the conditions.

Plenty of height except for creek crossings etc. If more height is needed use a 50mm spacer under chassis.

The important thing is to be load sharing.

Barry

Possum3 · Guru

BAZZA44 wrote:
Possums link shows a load sharing tandem rocker suspension that is quite suitable for most situations, including reasonable dirt roads. Just drive to the conditions.

Barry

Barry at the bottom of the first sketch there was a link to a Rocker Roller unit that you may have overlooked see http://www.dexteraxle.com.au/suspension/#1472447405503-a4c6966d-2b74

Cupie · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I don't believe that independent suspension is of any value whatever on a caravan.
What is useful for off road conditions is a more compliant suspension so that the van and its contents get a better ride. That can be achieved with most suspension designs if that is the need.

The problem with most independent suspensions on caravans (apart from costing a lot more) is that many are not adjustable and wheel mis alignments are difficult to fix and also that they use coil springs which have no self damping so the dampers (shockers) have MUCH more work to do and wear out much faster than the same shockers on leaf springs which do have considerable self damping. They also are not load sharing which is a major negative, particularly in rougher conditions.

Stick with rocker/roller leaf springs with as long leaves as possible and have dampers fitted. They provide load sharing, are simple, reliable, cheap and easily and cheaply repaired.
Cheers,
Peter

This lines up pretty well with my interpretation of Collyn Rivers view. (A post on another forum)

My 1999 Jayco has Rocker (not Rocker Roller) dual suspension but is defective in that it has no shockies. It is definitely an on road van & as such has performed beautifully from new. I'm on my 3rd set of tyres, all replaced on age & not wear. But I would never take it off road without first fitting appropriate shockies & under slinging the axles to give more clearance (& a bit of a risk in doing that too). Who wants to destroy the van on the rough stuff anyway? LOL

-- Edited by Cupie on Thursday 6th of August 2020 10:31:31 AM

-- Edited by Cupie on Thursday 6th of August 2020 10:33:00 AM

Magnarc · Guru

Hi Ivan, welcome to the Nomads. We have Simplicity independent load sharing suspension fitted to our van. Adjustments to prevent tyre wear are carried out when needed. The van rides beautifully over dirt roads. I had it underslung (raised) because I got fed up with replacing the the rear stabilisers trying to get out of some servo with deep gutters! I can only say that our suspension has never given us any dramas, but there are those on the forum with a lot more knowledge than I on these matters, thats what makes it so interesting. In most cases there will be someone who can give the right advice. Good luck with your purchase, I hope that you get to use it soon!!!!!!

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Same as Magnarc, Simplicity Independent leaf springs, although mine are offroad, and have 7 X 8mm leaves, has been everywhere for a 1993 aged Roadstar van.

BAZZA44 · Senior Member

Possum3 wrote:
BAZZA44 wrote:
Possums link shows a load sharing tandem rocker suspension that is quite suitable for most situations, including reasonable dirt roads. Just drive to the conditions.

Barry
Barry at the bottom of the first sketch there was a link to a Rocker Roller unit that you may have overlooked see http://www.dexteraxle.com.au/suspension/#1472447405503-a4c6966d-2b74

You are absolutely correct possum I did not see the other link

Barry

Cupie · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
Same as Magnarc, Simplicity Independent leaf springs, although mine are offroad, and have 7 X 8mm leaves, has been everywhere for a 1993 aged Roadstar van.

https://www.thetrailershop.com.au/simplicity/

Now that looks like an off road suspension that I would go for.

-- Edited by Cupie on Thursday 6th of August 2020 01:18:06 PM

Bass · Senior Member

Put shockers on what ever your choice ours did all the tracks and the PDR had no probs.

KJB · Guru

Without shock absorbers the suspension (some more than others) has the same characteristics as a "pogo" stick. Shock absorbers containing a "gas chamber" hold their correct damping performance and remain much cooler on corrugated/rough roads immeasurably longer than an equivalent oil only filled shock absorber.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Cupie wrote:
https://www.thetrailershop.com.au/simplicity/

4 Wheel Simplicity Suspension Units feature 4 trailing arms & semi elliptic reverse mounted double slipper springs.

Actually, there are 2 trailing arms (and 2 leading), and I am not a fan of slipper springs which tend to be very high wear items in the bush, but yes, they are load sharing, but as I said, I see no value in independent suspension for a caravan except that they have become a "fashion" for those with extra cash which is exploited by sales folk who may have absolutely no idea.

Cheers,

Peter

Whenarewethere · Guru

My Land Rover's offroad towing capacity is a lot lower than onroad even though it can have up to 350kg towball load.

Magnarc · Guru

Peter just to set the record straight, we are not flush with money, we did not get talked into independent suspension by a smooth talking salesman, it was on the van when we bought it. We have driven some 20 thousand ks on that suspension without a problem other than regular maintenance. I speak as I find. Just because someone is averse to an item does not mean it is no good.

KJB · Guru

The very least that you would expect from any suspension is that it will not break, bend , go out of alignment etc.. The fundamental reason you have suspension on a caravan is to give maximum protection to the load that it is carrying. In other words a "smooth ride "- particularly important for the delicate structure of a caravan and its contents.

On various vans and campers over 40 years (used on mainly gravel/sand roads and tracks thru out Aust. ) I have used "slipper springs" , "roller rockers" , rubber -with and without shock absorbers and full independent air with 2 long travel gas shock absorbers for each wheel. I have not had any fail but I have had damage due to poor ride quality. The worst ride quality was rubber without shock absorbers but the best - by far - has been the full air, independent. (not because it is independent but because of the nice long, controlled ,soft suspension travel without bottoming out on the bump stops ) It wins hands down and it is obviously one of the main reasons it is used on trucks and coaches now days. I would guess that coils instead of air bags would come in second for caravan use , but I have no experience with them..

One of the main reasons for a suspension and or its pick up points to fail is that it is being subjected to conditions (weight, shock loads) beyond its limits, particularly over an extended period. Good quality tyres with larger diameter and higher side walls will reduce some of the sharp, severe shock loads transmitted to the suspension.

I just thought that I would pass on some of my suspension experiences .

Greg 1 · Guru

Have used the roller rocker suspension for decades on various vans over all types of roads with no trouble. I have not even broken a spring which is about the only thing I have seen happen to them as I have seen in leaf sprung vehicles. Cheap and easy to fix with reasonably easy parts obtainability. Speaking to a repairer in the NT, and he was saying he sees a lot of broken independent suspensions and often has vans off the road awaiting parts for weeks and even months. He carried a range of spare springs and could usually fix the roller rocker type system in a couple of hours.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Yes pays to take it easy .Being a motorhome traveler . I find vans tend to drive too fast over metal roads . Ive been passed by vehicle, van where we can see van jumping all over the place ! God knows what is going on
Inside !! 40 kph seems about the right speed bin soft roads up north as the sand seems to roll infront on tyres . Then rolls over build up
!! Mainly on off road tracks - roads to stations . Tyre size etc helps ! Often Vans are fitted with cheapest Smaller dia option . Had this suspension on 3 ton car carrying trailer for years . I grease centre pivot every few years . Its mainly little to no maintenance, over weight or abuse that causes issues . Leaf spring is STILL fitted on trucks for a reason ! Although air bags have taken over . In outback the trusty leaf is still king .

HandyWalter · Senior Member

Aus-Kiwi, I think you will find most big european truck manufacturers all use air suspension now. Some American manufacturers still have leaf. Main advantage is smoother ride, adjustable for weight of load etc. Nearly ALL buses are air. Its just more comfortable whether the track/bus is loaded or unloaded. Something that most ute drivers note with sring rear ends. Loaded the car is far more "planted".

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Yes your right . But the later model
Bag suspension is NOT popular out west on rough roads . They dont hold up well !! Mind you who Would use a new- sh rig out there ? Hmm so bag supenders on a van. ? Lol

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Black top is a different matter.
I have never heard of air bags being designed into a 4WD vehicle designed for off road use.
Cheers,
Peter

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Road engineers hate air bags . As they say its harder on bridges, roads etc also as they move around . Trouble is we push things to the limits then complain when things break ! Shocks or adding shocks gives better control. Back to OP question ? My rocker suspension jumps around a little when empty or little weight . With load on ? Its like its hardly there till you get to hills .

HandyWalter · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Black top is a different matter.
I have never heard of air bags being designed into a 4WD vehicle designed for off road use.
Cheers,
Peter

Obviously have not heard of Discovery, Range Rover or Defender? All now have air suspensions with bags in each corner. And yes I am biased, but straight off the showroom floor, they perform better as tow tugs (except defender as its so new) and as 4WD's, than any other wagon type vehicle.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Some of the black roads out there are no better than tracks. The heat and road trains make the tar ripple, it can be like that for klrs !! Then its all up to quality of any product !! Horses for courses ! No standard breed has won the Melbourne cup !!

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 10th of August 2020 01:47:22 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

HandyWalter wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Black top is a different matter.
I have never heard of air bags being designed into a 4WD vehicle designed for off road use.
Cheers,
Peter

Obviously have not heard of Discovery, Range Rover or Defender? All now have air suspensions with bags in each corner. And yes I am biased, but straight off the showroom floor, they perform better as tow tugs (except defender as its so new) and as 4WD's, than any other wagon type vehicle.

Maybe, maybe not. You might know therefore that the Range Rover was the first 4WD ever to be declared "un fit to drive across the Simpson Desert" by the Mount Dare workshop. That was mostly to do with the low profile tyres fitted, but it does clearly demonstrate that off road performance is a long way down from the design priority of these vehicles.

Cheers,

Peter