Fines for being Over on your Rig

Old and Grey · Senior Member

Fines for being Over on your Rig

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Clearly you have no consideration for the safety of your family or other road users?
Before you get the fine you will be unable to move the rig until it is legal. Then you go to court.
Cheers,
Peter

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi Old and Grey,
I gather you're not the Victorian bloke we met at Karumba a couple of years ago?

He was towing a sizeable dual axled van, had a fold up trailer on the back of it, outboard motor fitted on the A-frame & a plate 12'6" aluminium boat on the top of his Toyota 100 Series wagon!!
The max load on the car's roof is 100kg - including the rack. He was so far over that he would have been banned if he got caught!

The only way to do things correctly is what Adelaide friends used to do - either do two trips or have a relative tow the boat while they towed the van.

Since doing our weights, we look at most 4wd wagons - especially if they have a boat on top & wonder how far they are over! Most wagons have a total load of around 600Kg - includes ball weight, iron work, passengers, gear & passengers!!! That is the reason why we now have a dual cab Ute.

Whenarewethere · Guru

No payout on insurance if there is an accident. They will have the vehicle & contents weighed.

Whenarewethere · Guru

You might want to do a spreadsheets, it adds up quickly!

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65110614/towing-weights-again/

Possum3 · Guru

To answer the OP - The cost of overloading Waggon, caravan and boat can be catastrophic accident, multiple deaths, no insurance payout to loved ones (if they still love you after what you just did) and Culpable Driving charge if you survive www.armstronglegal.com.au/traffic-law/vic/culpable-driving/

SouthernComfort · Guru

"Does anyone know the $$$ cost / fines for being over loaded with your Car and Van in various states."

"If its too much, I will rethink it"

So, you're not concerned about the safety hazards of being deliberately overweight then, only the fines if you get nicked?

At first I thought this was tongue in cheek, but I have a horrible feeling you are being serious. If so, please just keep off the road.

yobarr · Guru

Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know the $$$ cost / fines for being over loaded with your Car And Van in various states.
I want to take my Aluminium Dingy / Fold up Trailer, and outboard motor along on our next trip.
If its too much, I will rethink it.
Grey

Are you serious? An intention to operate a vehicle that is overloaded,unsafe and uninsured,provided the penalty is not "too much",is stupidity in the extreme.Totally irresponsible, but we can only hope that the penalties encourage you to get your weights right first,so that your family,as well as other motorists,are as safe as possible. Seems you don't have a name or a home state,but these (unconfirmed) penalties may cause you to reconsider being irresponsible.Queensland seems to be intolerant of overloading,with fines of $600-$1500 and a loss of 4 penalty points.NSW has fines of $439 with the loss of 3 penalty points,while Victoria seems a little more tolerant of fools,with no penalty points lost,although the fines are up to $1682 if vehicles are more than 15% overloaded.If you tell us what vehicles you have,we may be able to give good advice about GVM and ATM upgrades etc.....if you suspect that you're overloaded,it is more than likely that you are.Do us all a favour,and get your weights right,for the safety of us all.You may well be able to replace a written-off uninsured vehicle,but many of us are not.Please do the right thing.I believe that a recent exercise in Queensland found that over 70% of caravans were overloaded.Cheers

P.S These penalties did NOT come from any official website,but have been in my records for a couple of years.Others may have more up to date data,but this is a start.

yobarr · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
No payout on insurance if there is an accident. They will have the vehicle & contents weighed.

This is what occurred after a caravan crash killed two people near Walcha.The driver is facing serious charges relating to this "accident",which killed his wife and her son.Very sad.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Old and Grey does not tell the forum what sort of a vehicle he has.
If he has a tug such as a Dodge Ram2500, Chev equivalent, he can tow 4.5t with a larger tow ball, 6t with a pintle hitch & may be able to take his toys with him.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Oops in my first reply, I listed passengers twice (late night reply) - meant to add fuel.

Cupie · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know the $$$ cost / fines for being over loaded with your Car And Van in various states.
I want to take my Aluminium Dingy / Fold up Trailer, and outboard motor along on our next trip.
If its too much, I will rethink it.
Grey
Are you serious? An intention to operate a vehicle that is overloaded,unsafe and uninsured,provided the penalty is not "too much",is stupidity in the extreme.Totally irresponsible, but we can only hope that the penalties encourage you to get your weights right first,so that your family,as well as other motorists,are as safe as possible. Seems you don't have a name or a home state,but these (unconfirmed) penalties may cause you to reconsider being irresponsible.Queensland seems to be intolerant of overloading,with fines of $600-$1500 and a loss of 4 penalty points.NSW has fines of $439 with the loss of 3 penalty points,while Victoria seems a little more tolerant of fools,with no penalty points lost,although the fines are up to $1682 if vehicles are more than 15% overloaded.If you tell us what vehicles you have,we may be able to give good advice about GVM and ATM upgrades etc.....if you suspect that you're overloaded,it is more than likely that you are.Do us all a favour,and get your weights right,for the safety of us all.You may well be able to replace a written-off uninsured vehicle,but many of us are not.Please do the right thing.I believe that a recent exercise in Queensland found that over 70% of caravans were overloaded.Cheers
P.S These penalties did NOT come from any official website,but have been in my records for a couple of years.Others may have more up to date data,but this is a start.

Whilst I don't dispute the quoted survey results, given the frequent comments on the forum about insurance companies refusing to pay out on overloaded rigs, I wonder if there is any evidence of a large proportion, perhaps even 70% of claims being refused due to overloading. I have however met a handful of people who have been, or have witnessed first hand roadside weighing by plod.

I have never heard of any insurance refusals but that may just be a factor of my relatively cloistered life.

BTW I think that it is ill advised to set out on a trip being knowingly overloaded. We take positive steps to know & reduce our load to keep within limits.

Of course it is difficult & so far I have been unsuccessful, to find a FULL SET of figures for my old 1996 GQ 4.2EFI manual wagon Nissan Patrol. No they are not in the owners manual or on any Nissan web site that I can find. I wonder what the authorities use as a reference. Leads anyone pls?

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Not hard to find....

Cheers,

Peter

Old and Grey · Senior Member

Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know the $$$ cost / fines for being over loaded with your Car And Van in various states.
I want to take my Aluminium Dingy / Fold up Trailer, and outboard motor along on our next trip.
If its too much, I will rethink it.
Grey

Morning everyone,

Oh Dear, What have I Done to you lot.

I asked a simple Question and you lot want to run a NEW MEMBER out of town.

I have a small 3.4mt boat that weighs 58kg. An aluminium trailer @45kg total and a 4hp motor of 27kg.

The boat loader Frame I made Myself, and a rhino Rack Rib (This is a full length rail which attachers to (in my case eight points x 16 bolts into the roof proper)

The frame is attached inside the ribs and is the lowest profile rack ever made.The total weight is 38kg.

The Rhino people rate these mounting back bone ribs @360kg static, and 150kg including the backbone rib loaded, for on road use.for my 200 series GX Landcruiser.

In addition I have removed the rear fold up seats. Saving = 110kg over the rear axel. (Because the seats fold up, Im allowed to remove both. Not fixed.)

My basic maths calculate 168kg + boat gear 12kg =180kg less rear seats -110kg = Extra 70kg.

My boat and rack come in at 96kg + ratchet straps 4kg =100kg I have 50kg =33% less then the rating by Rhino people.

SO is it possible to just stick to what I asked in my Question. instead of been treated like some >)%#@..

Grey.

Whenarewethere · Guru

NSW

Negligent driving where death is occasioned

$3300 first offence, 18 months jaol, min 12 month loss of licence max unlimited.

Then you will have court costs & your lawyers, $11,000 per day for an experienced barrister.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 16th of June 2020 10:19:21 AM

yobarr · Guru

Cupie wrote:
Of course it is difficult & so far I have been unsuccessful, to find a FULL SET of figures for my old 1996 GQ 4.2EFI manual wagon Nissan Patrol. No they are not in the owners manual or on any Nissan web site that I can find. I wonder what the authorities use as a reference. Leads anyone pls?

Hi Cupie....you may well already have these figures,but,if not,they may be a good start for you? Axle ratings will take me a bit longer to dig out,if needed,but this will get you started? Kerb weight is 2120kg,GVM is 2800kg,Towing capacity is 2500kg and GCM is 5300kg,but you will never be able to reach that figure,with 4950kg being absolute maximum, depending on car's rear axle capacity.Hope this helps? Cheers.

yobarr · Guru

Old and Grey wrote:
Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know the $$$ cost / fines for being over loaded with your Car And Van in various states.
I want to take my Aluminium Dingy / Fold up Trailer, and outboard motor along on our next trip.
If its too much, I will rethink it.
Grey
Morning everyone,
Oh Dear, What have I Done to you lot.
I asked a simple Question and you lot want to run a NEW MEMBER out of town.
I have a small 3.4mt boat that weighs 58kg. An aluminium trailer @45kg total and a 4hp motor of 27kg.
The boat loader Frame I made Myself, and a rhino Rack Rib (This is a full length rail which attachers to (in my case eight points x 16 bolts into the roof proper)
The frame is attached inside the ribs and is the lowest profile rack ever made.The total weight is 38kg.
The Rhino people rate these mounting back bone ribs @360kg static, and 150kg including the backbone rib loaded, for on road use.for my 200 series GX Landcruiser.
In addition I have removed the rear fold up seats. Saving = 110kg over the rear axel. (Because the seats fold up, Im allowed to remove both. Not fixed.)
My basic maths calculate 168kg + boat gear 12kg =180kg less rear seats -110kg = Extra 70kg.
My boat and rack come in at 96kg + ratchet straps 4kg =100kg I have 50kg =33% less then the rating by Rhino people.
SO is it possible to just stick to what I asked in my Question. instead of been treated like some >)%#@..
Grey.

You have bigger problems than you possibly think.I have to go and help a mate with his weights now,so I cannot elaborate,but if you are able to supply details of your van,I will offer help later today.A photo of your van's compliance plate would be best,but we need,at least,the van's ATM and GTM,and perhaps axle rating to assist.Cheers.

yobarr · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
NSW
Negligent driving where death is occasioned
$3300 first offence, 18 months jaol, min 12 month loss of licence max unlimited.
Then you will have court costs & your lawyers, $11,000 per day for an experienced barrister.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 16th of June 2020 10:19:21 AM

Jonathan....thanks.NOW,that's more realistic! Unfortunately,it won't help the deceased.Cheers

SouthernComfort · Guru

Yes, your question was simple enough - you asked what the fines are in various states if your car / van are over loaded, and you stated that if they're too much you might re-think it.

This implies that you will knowingly travel overweight so long as the fines are not too high...why are you surprised at the reaction you got?

You know everything about your roof rack etc, so surely you can calculate what the extras are doing to your vehicle GVM and axle loads

I'd suggest you start by knowing your GVM and axle ratings then account for what you add and subtract in payload. If your overall load exceeds your GVM, forget the fines, just don't do it.

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Tuesday 16th of June 2020 10:26:38 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
NSW
Negligent driving where death is occasioned
$3300 first offence, 18 months jaol, min 12 month loss of licence max unlimited.
Then you will have court costs & your lawyers, $11,000 per day for an experienced barrister.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 16th of June 2020 10:19:21 AM
Jonathan....thanks.NOW,that's more realistic! Unfortunately,it won't help the deceased.Cheers

Exactly.

Saving a life for $20 at & weighbridge looks like good value.

Old and Grey · Senior Member

Hi Tony,

Looks likes I have been Sentenced without a trail.

Your Honour I have done my basic maths in good faith. Got pulled over in my driveway and Weighed.

I ask for leniency and plead Guilty for been so honest Sir.

Sounds like we are going down the same track as the USA here.

Grey

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

A trial was not required as you confessed.
Cheers,
Peter

outlaw40 · Guru

Maybe OP ment to post in the joke thread as he surely cant be serious

yobarr · Guru

Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know the $$$ cost / fines for being over loaded with your Car And Van in various states.
I want to take my Aluminium Dingy / Fold up Trailer, and outboard motor along on our next trip.
If its too much, I will rethink it.
Grey

With its short 2850mm wheelbase and long TBO (towball overhang,or distance from rear axle of car to hitchpoint) combined with its ridiculous rear axle rating of only 1950kg, the LC200 is easily overloaded.With all your "extras" there is not a snow flake's chance in hell of you not being overloaded.And please be aware that the much vaunted,and expensive, 3800kg GVM upgrade increases your rear axle capacity to only 2000kg,or a miserable 50kg increase.This obviously is not what you want to hear,but there simply is no way that you can stay legal if you want fuel,tools,luggage,a driver and any passengers.Not only will you be overloaded and unsafe,but you will be uninsured if you are involved in an accident. That cost would cause any overloading fines to pale into insignificance.If safety is of any concern,leave the boat etc at home,or buy a more suitable vehicle.....dare I say a 70 series twin-cab,or maybe a small truck? Cheers

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

0804 (15)c.jpg

Buy a truck based 4WD motorhome and tow the boat.

Safe. Legal.

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 16th of June 2020 12:35:03 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Duplicate

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 16th of June 2020 12:33:17 PM

yobarr · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Not hard to find....
Cheers,
Peter

Great photos Peter... these are examples of people who have NO idea about weights.I note that both vans have jerry cans,tool boxes and gas bottles on the 'A' frame.Judging by the distance between the tyres and the wheel arch,I believe that the the first photo shows a vehicle that has had a GVM upgrade,and is using the universal 'cure all' of a WDH,but the second photo seems to show neither.There is little doubt that both of these vehicles are overloaded in the extreme.And look at all the garbage on the rear bumpers of the vans.....an accident looking for a place to happen.Cheers.

Cupie · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Cupie wrote:
Of course it is difficult & so far I have been unsuccessful, to find a FULL SET of figures for my old 1996 GQ 4.2EFI manual wagon Nissan Patrol. No they are not in the owners manual or on any Nissan web site that I can find. I wonder what the authorities use as a reference. Leads anyone pls?
Hi Cupie....you may well already have these figures,but,if not,they may be a good start for you? Axle ratings will take me a bit longer to dig out,if needed,but this will get you started? Kerb weight is 2120kg,GVM is 2800kg,Towing capacity is 2500kg and GCM is 5300kg,but you will never be able to reach that figure,with 4950kg being absolute maximum, depending on car's rear axle capacity.Hope this helps? Cheers.

Yobarr .. Thanks for that. I will not clog up this thread with my stuff. Will send a PM shortly. BTW Cars Guide & Gregories (4.2EFi suppliment) both show this vehicle as 2,800 kg towing capacity. ie 1995 &1996 Petrol manual waggon (4.2 efi).

Greg 1 · Guru

The fine will be the least of your problems.

In WA, they will tell you you can go no further until you reduce your load to a legal amount.
The heavies often set up in quite remote spots, so there is little you can do about getting rid of some of your load somewhere other than abandoning it on the side of the road.
They had one setup on the Brand Hwy past the Jurien Bay turn complete with skip bins. Quite a remote spot. People were having to throw out all sorts of stuff so that they could continue with their journey.

Tossing your dingy, motor and trailer in a skip would hurt I dare say. It's a bit more than a couple of chairs and a table or two.

I read an article awhile ago, that interviewed a police officer about overloaded caravans. He was saying that the first vehicles they target are those with dingy's on the roof, as invariably they prove to be over weight.
I am sure that with careful loading, you may well get your rig within limits, if your vehicle and van numbers are not to close to the limit. But be aware that you may well be a magnet for a weigh in with the boat on board.

I too am concerned at your attitude that you would travel overloaded if the fine wasn't prohibitive. I trust that this is purely a mistake in the way you have expressed yourself and not how it seems, a deliberate and conscious attempt to flout the law and put yourself and other road users at risk.
It is one of the most current issues facing caravanners at present, and should be taken just as seriously as overloaded road trains. There have been too many accidents from poorly loaded or overloaded caravan rigs for this to be ignored.

So if it is as it seems and you are intent on travelling overloaded, I urge you to reconsider.
If you are not prepared to do that, then I hope that you and a weigh station have a close and personal relationship somewhere on your trip.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Tony,
Looks likes I have been Sentenced without a trail.

Your Honour I have done my basic maths in good faith. Got pulled over in my driveway and Weighed.
I ask for leniency and plead Guilty for been so honest Sir.
Sounds like we are going down the same track as the USA here.
Grey

Well mate, joke away by all means, but if there's one thing most people in here take seriously it is weights.

And no, you haven't done your basic maths. If you had you wouldn't have needed to ask your initial question.

Sorry if we're being harsh, but sharing roads with overweight rigs puts us at risk, and that's unacceptable.