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Post Info TOPIC: DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER


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DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER


A scare story, must be gearing up for no more diesel engines campaigning;

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-08/diesel-filter-problems-in-australian-cars-widespread/11655040

Maybe some people who drive diesel engine vehicles are not aware that they need regular highway speeds driving to avoid particulate filter clogging up?



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I know absolutely zilch about diesel engines or motor mechanical operations in general but one thing I have noticed is how well my Isuzu DMax travels after it has towed the van for a few hours, especially if a bit of hill climbing has been involved.

After the van is unhitched and I go for a drive I find the engine runs so well as if it has had a really good clean out. I read the article online where the fellow drives around in second gear for an hour or so and imagine it must have the same effect.

How about that.



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The reason I have a Land Rover but with a petrol engine. It's a bit more thirsty but I don't have any of these issues.

Where I live my average city speed is 32 kph & there is nowhere within a reasonable distance where one would be able to give a diesel car a good run. 

The other issue with the modern diesel engines it the oil needs to be changed more frequently. An issue discussed frequently on some forums.



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Is it a vehicle issue or the quality of the fuel? All vehicles, petrol or diesel, need a good run every now and again to clean them out. We had a bus conversion with an old Detroit in it and you had to drive it like you hated it just to keep everything running clean.

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the dmax was first fitted with a dpf in 2017 they are a pain in the bum we had heaps of problems with boggers or underground diesel machines 30 years ago with them blocking and at 10 grand or more to replace them your better off staying away from vehicles that use them, i expect adblue will replace the need for a dpf


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If you run LPG along with the diesel, the AdBlue and particulate filter are no longer required. The same with running an electrolyser to break water down to hydrogen and oxygen and then feeding this into the air intake. When the diesel ignites it causes the hydrogen and oxygen mix to also ignite forming water droplets. These become super heated steam while absorbing the peak temperature in the ignition phase that creates the Nox, that is what the EGR valve is designed to reduce so that could be eliminated as well. As the pressure in the cylinder drops the energy from the super heated steam is displaced into a downward force on the piston and the water droplets become bigger and cling to any carbon molecules present carrying them out to through the turbo that is spun harder because of the increased volume in the exhaust. Once the exhaust passes through the turbo both the temperature and pressure reduces and the steam expands the droplet size yet again collecting lots of carbon particles along with it. Once they exit the exhaust pipe, the water droplets are so heavy they fall to the ground, the water boils off leaving the carbon behind. All the functions of the pollution control are taken care of with a simple device that uses water, heat energy and electrical energy.
I doubt you will ever see a hydrolyser factory fitted to any internal combustion engine because the very idea of an engine running on something the petroleum companies can't sell will never get off the ground, or the drawing board to be more precise.
The diesel engine is on its last legs and the pollution control demands mandated by world govts are kicking the shaky legs out from under it.

T1 Terry

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Unfortunately not everyone who has a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) vehicle, is mechanical savvy enough to know how/when to burn the soot off

With the stories of faulty DPF's, which are not automatically burning the soot off, I can only see problems/expense, in the years ahead

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My Isuzu MU-X purchased new in 2017 has a particulate filter and automatically burns the contents off while the vehicle is travelling at 80 KMH or higher speed, there is a gauge showing how much is contained in the filter and a warning system to alert the driver that the filter needs a cleaning drive. So there is no excuse for suburban driving and ignoring the filter.



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Yes Terry Diesel-Gas is efficient, I had the original inaccurate system and changed to a precise LPG injection system that was far better. My Mitsubishi Pajero Diesel Engine with LPG injection developed 20% more power and torque measured at the rear wheels on a dynamometer with 22% LPG injected to burn with the Diesel fuel. I blocked the EGR valve and the vacuum hose. The exhaust was cleaner (combustion increased from maybe 80% to over 90% of Diesel which is where the extra power and torque comes from) and the EGR engine running rough problem disappeared.

Caution: My original system was incorrectly installed and tuned to deliver too much LPG resulting in a loss of LPG into the oil sump and overheating problems, exhaust temperature too high, and ended with a cracked cylinder head. The installing agent went out of business and the system supplier agreed to rectify the problems but didn't. They sent me away with what was described as potentially a bomb. I could smell the LPG after stopping but did not imagine why, I thought it was normal operation and highway speed engine odour. The "bomb" diagnosis resulted in replacement with the injected system but using the original LPG tank and pipework.

Later a complete engine reconditioning was required, but that was from the incorrect installation and tuning.

I am unsure about installing the system on a modern common rail fuel injection system.



-- Edited by Knight on Friday 8th of November 2019 03:33:38 PM

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As an owner of a car with a DPF I find it interesting that most people don't even know they've got one, and certainly aren't told by the salesman when buying the car that it's a "consumable" item, with a design life of about 160k before it needs replacing at a cost of about $5,000. As they started being fitted to light diesel vehicles around 2015/16 to comply with ADR79/04, not many will have reached that point yet, but it will be a nasty shock to unsuspecting owners as they start to reach the end of their service life and need replacing.

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boab wrote:

i expect adblue will replace the need for a dpf


 They are for different things - Adblue to reduce Nox and DPF to reduce particulates (soot), so most Euro 6 engines need both.



-- Edited by Mamil on Friday 8th of November 2019 04:56:53 PM

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Adblue for nitrous oxide.

DPF for large particles.

Lungs, especially children as they are shorter to filter <2.5um particles!



-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 8th of November 2019 05:05:00 PM

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Knight wrote:

Yes Terry Diesel-Gas is efficient, I had the original inaccurate system and changed to a precise LPG injection system that was far better. My Mitsubishi Pajero Diesel Engine with LPG injection developed 20% more power and torque measured at the rear wheels on a dynamometer with 22% LPG injected to burn with the Diesel fuel. I blocked the EGR valve and the vacuum hose. The exhaust was cleaner (combustion increased from maybe 80% to over 90% of Diesel which is where the extra power and torque comes from) and the EGR engine running rough problem disappeared.

Caution: My original system was incorrectly installed and tuned to deliver too much LPG resulting in a loss of LPG into the oil sump and overheating problems, exhaust temperature too high, and ended with a cracked cylinder head. The installing agent went out of business and the system supplier agreed to rectify the problems but didn't. They sent me away with what was described as potentially a bomb. I could smell the LPG after stopping but did not imagine why, I thought it was normal operation and highway speed engine odour. The "bomb" diagnosis resulted in replacement with the injected system but using the original LPG tank and pipework.

Later a complete engine reconditioning was required, but that was from the incorrect installation and tuning.

I am unsure about installing the system on a modern common rail fuel injection system.



-- Edited by Knight on Friday 8th of November 2019 03:33:38 PM


The LPG in the crank case was a common problem even on petrol engines due to the installer being clueless about what they were doing. I worked for bus company that was progressively swapping out their tired diesel engines with 351 Cleveland engines running on straight LPG, not dual fuel. I was only there for a few days when the first one came in on the hook with the sump and tappet covers ballooned out and oil sprayed up inside as well as under the bus (mid mount). A quick inspection showed why, the PVC valve was connected as usual but the fresh air pipe that normally went to a filter gauze in the air cleaner was connected into the pipe between the mixer and the throttle body (usually a holley carby with no fuel pipes attached), so a perfect mix of gas and air was being drawn into the tappet covers and sump  evileye Seems this exploding sump was quite common and no one bothered to figure out why confuse Simply rerouting the tappet cover fresh air pipe to the air cleaner side solved the problem and I found 26 of the fleet all connected up wrong.

The cracked head and later rebuild was because there wasn't enough oxygen left after the LPG burnt to detonate all the diesel being injected, so a bit of bore washing and way too high combustion pressures with all that unburnt fuel still in the cyl caused the head failure.

Definitely a job for someone who knows what they are doing, there were way too many cowboys fitting up LPG systems when it was all the rage.

The big capacity trucks are going over to LPG fed in at the back of the valve, claimed to be liquid injection but I'd go more for it being concentrated vapour. the effect is chilling the intake air even further so more air per cyl fill results in more oxygen to burn the LPG and diesel. The smart operators dial back the diesel so they have the same power for less fuel cost, the removal of the Adblu makes life much easier and the cost of the LPG is off set by no longer having to buy the adblu. a bit of retuning on a dyno improves the fuel economy even more.

 

T1 Terry  



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I have a 2014 2.8lt Auto Diesel Colorado Twin Cab Ute so not sure if it has a DPF or not. I will go ask Holden on Monday and see what they say.

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I just did a search for DPF replacement cost and found ...

dpfcleaningservices.com.au/isuzu-dpf-cleaning/

 

And this ...

 

https://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/technology/clean/cleaner05.html

 

And another ...

 

http://www.masterautomobiles.com.au/services-view/diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-cleaning-regeneration-repair/

 

No need to panic, our DPF can be cleaned for much less cost than a new replacement. And with good maintenance and driving habits hopefully later rather than sooner.



-- Edited by Knight on Saturday 9th of November 2019 09:02:45 AM



-- Edited by Knight on Saturday 9th of November 2019 09:05:05 AM



-- Edited by Knight on Saturday 9th of November 2019 09:07:29 AM

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Knight, I'd be very sceptical of those advertised DPF cleaning services. Some are doing no more than hooking the car up to a diagnostics computer and making the car do a forced regeneration while stationary to burn off accumulated SOOT. This needs to be done when the car hasn't been able to regenerate the DPF automatically, due to too many short journeys for example, and has therefore detected a full DPF and gone into limp mode as a result. This is not the same as the DPF coming to the end of it's service life. That happens when it fills with accumulated ASH, which is the incombustible residue left after years of soot burn-offs and cannot be resolved by a forced regeneration. The only way to solve that is a replacement DPF, or as some of your links suggest - cleaning the DPF. However, I've heard mixed reports of the effectiveness of cleaning, and it being a temporary fix at best, as just flushing can't remove all the burnt on crud, and in fact the chemicals they use can remove the DPF's catalyst coating rendering it less effective at burning off soot. That's why my preferred solution when the time comes will be a new DPF, but an aftermarket one for a fraction of the price the main dealer charges. 



-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 9th of November 2019 12:53:37 PM

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We have dpfs on most of our work utes. You would not know they are doing a burn as they are driving along. Thinking maybe we use our diesel utes as they were meant to be driven as opposed to them being driven to drop kids off at school and then mum goes to her yoga class. Wasnt there a thread about this a few months ago ? Regards Pete

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Do it yourself and extend the DPF working life, additional to correct driving procedures for DPF maintenance;

costeffective.com.au/2018/08/07/diesel-particulate-filter-problems-how-to-solve-them/

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Terry,
You mention Diesel-Gas installations - I've had three Nissan Patrols & fitted the DGA system on my last two, with good results. The last (my GU) was a turbo-diesel & the results were better than my normally aspirated GQ.

BUT NOW Diesel-Gas Australia have closed heir headquarters in Adelaide (they had not updated their website since 2010, nor had they done any advertising). While spare parts like filters, valves are still available, the service people aren't certain what they'll do with reference to calibration settings.

ALSO Gas is "on the nose" here in North Qld with most previously dual fuelled taxis disappearing in favour of hybrids & gas is getting harder to buy. There is one outlet (BP) that I know of in Cairns with nothing north or west & here in Townsville there is one, perhaps two (when one is fixed from our February floods) - both BP. There is one (United) at Hughenden (400kms west), one at Emerald (Caltex).

But travelling to Mackay (only 400kms down the road), nearly every service station sells gas. Victoria too, has lots of gas suppliers.

Service people - there is one in both Townsville & Mackay. I know of others in Waikerie (SA), Geelong, Echuca & Fyshwick (ACT) - I've used them in the past.

So with this in mind, I would NOT fit the system to a diesel if I was living north of Mackay.

THE DPF in my new D-Max burnt off last Thursday during normal continual driving down some of our long roads in Townsville (speeds of 60-70kph). What the future holds, I don't know - that new Yank Tank - electric Rivian looked interesting but at $96,000 US - it's out of the question.


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The "highway burn clean" is really only moving the polluting particulate matter out of the city and dumping it out on the highway. Too bad for those cities/towns with a 100km/h plus by pass road close by, the crap is still going into the air and will travel over the town at some stage.
The particulate filter is just another "cheat" really, the adblu just makes the particulates denser and heavier so they fall out of the air quicker, they don't make them go away.

If all this cheating had been nipped in the bud or never attempted in the first place, the diesel engine manufacturers would have told the authorities that their emission requirements were unachievable and the govts could have decided what to do from there.
Instead, while not realising the tests were being cheated, the various govts in their infinite wisdom determined you could legislate certain emission reductions and the diesel engine manufacturers would be forced to comply.
Now the whole mess has come out in the open, diesel engine manufacturers have simply stopped building diesel engines that they can't make emission reduction levels and still be competitive with a petrol powered engine.
The greedy Australian federal Govt has really shot itself in the foot with the excise tax on LPG and allowing all the LNG to be shipped off shore. If you can't use a diesel engine because it doesn't meet emissions, you can't fuel these engines with LNG because there isn't enough available once the export contracts are filled and there is no roll out of an LNG dispensing network anyway. Now they are being forced into hybrid petrol/electric while they roll out a recharging network, while they have a grid in such a mess that the grid voltage is in runaway mode in many built up areas www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/voltage-rise-solar/%20weekly%20newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=getresponse
Do you think our brain dead govt will give up on their holly grail, the faux surplus, and actually start spending money on infrastructure rather than nonsense feasibility studies to put money in mates pockets to look at something the average worker could have told them was impractical .... Snowy 2.0 comes to mind.
So now we have this crazy modifying of emission requirements so the mining sector doesn't have to comply, the agricultural sector doesn't have to comply and the trucking sector has a different set of requirements to the rest of the country. Why, because without any of these key industries running at "business as usual" status, the country would grind to a halt.
What a mess

T1 Terry

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Most diesel powered Vehicles manufactured after 2009 had to comply with the Euro5 regulation and were fitted with a diesel particulate filter, exhaust gas recirculation and closed crankcase ventilation.  All of these devices will impact the service life of your engine in some way. 

Starting with the DPF, to achieve Regen the fuel system allows more fuel to enter the combustion and exhaust cycle to increase the temperature in the DPF to burn off the accumulated carbon. 

The unwanted side effects are clogged DPF relating to stop start motoring, owners using a lower oil specification, worn engines and oil dilution due to diesel fuel bypass during DPF regeneration.

 

Then there is the severe carbon build up in intake manifolds cylinder head assemblies and turbo chargers from the EGR and CCV devices.

 

Obviously I have simplified the emission system explanation and excluded SCR/AddBlue because this is not applicable to most Australian tow vehicles.

I cannot by law recommend that you modify or remove any of the above but the key points to trouble free motoring are, try and avoid short trips, include regular highway speeds/trips, check your oil level regularly- there are now three marks on your dipstick, low, full, and an x that denotes the maximum oil level, yes the oil level will increase because of fuel bypass during Regen. And most importantly only use the maximum recommended oil specification.

 

Finally, be very careful when buying high mileage Diesel engines because the removal of the carbon buildup in intake manifolds, cylinder head assemblies and turbo chargers due to the EGR CCV system will be expensive. Regards Wayne.



-- Edited by AusQld on Wednesday 13th of November 2019 09:03:56 AM

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Yes Terry I fitted water injection to 6.5 GM diesel . Ok doesnt have exhaust filter . The water / ethanol 80/20% keeps chamber clean and cool . It starts way easier, doesnt smoke . The water injection comes on at full throttle . Replace the glow plugs recently. They looked neat new . The particulate filter in to pass emissions . But doesnt always help after a few years or klrs .


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My Isuzu MU-X servicing schedule requires engine oil and filter every 20,000 kilometres but I get them done at every service done every 10,000 kilometres and have a secondary diesel filter installed.

I use Flashlube Diesel Conditioner and have just purchased CEF (see link on my post above) FTC Decarboniser to extend EGR life and clean DPF filter.

Since purchased in 2017 the vehicle is heading towards the 80,000 kilometre service. Most driving is country roads and around town, but I make sure it gets an 80-100 kmh drive once a week if I am not travelling. 

 



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