EV ROAD TAX

Knight · Senior Member

EV ROAD TAX

iana · Guru

I read this and wondered what is a road ? looking up on the net the meaning.

"A road is a thoroughfare, route, or way on land between two places that has been paved or otherwise improved to allow travel by foot or some form of conveyance, including a motor vehicle, cart, bicycle, or horse."

So we can also add that Bicycles, Pedestrians etc. also do not contribute directly to the road tax system.

Oh dear what have I said!

Knight · Senior Member

On the other hand, the owners of unregistered vehicles that use diesel or petrol on farms, mines and for other business purposes and do not use public roadways are eligible for a fuel tax rebate.

By the way, bicycles do use public roads, pedestrians use footpaths.

I have long believed as a bicycle rider that they should be registered and insured if used on public roads for accident and traffic infringement purposes. Note also that in many places bicycle lanes are provided on public roads.

-- Edited by Knight on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 07:10:33 AM

jade46 · Senior Member

It could be argued that the much higher cost of an electric car contributes in that way IE GST and rego transfer which is a % of the vehicle price??

Knight · Senior Member

jade46 wrote:
It could be argued that the much higher cost of an electric car contributes in that way IE GST and rego transfer which is a % of the vehicle price??

How could that be argued, expensive (luxury) vehicles all contribute via taxes and registration, plus fuel tax. No way the government would allow fuel tax revenue to decrease and not introduce a replacement for it.

"The fuel excise earns the government $18 billion a year, but electric vehicle owners arent contributing."

-- Edited by Knight on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 08:20:22 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

There are only about 7000 electric cars in Australia. Fuel excise tax goes into consolidated revenue.

The best system would be satellite tracking of every vehicle & the revenue could go to the exact km the vehicle drives on.

The government could also use this system as a congestion tax & time of day tax, driving between 3 & 5am is the cheapest to get people off roads in busier times for example.

Outbackroads which need more upgrading could be levied on a sliding scale.

If you drive on a wet dirt road the levy could be increased dramatically.

When towing your car would transmit the trailer's rego so you would pay an increased km levy based on the mass of the trailer, only fair as some don't tow.

A satellite system would also allow point to point speed checking on every road.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 10:19:53 AM

dogbox · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:

There are only about 7000 electric cars in Australia. Fuel excise tax goes into consolidated revenue.
The best system would be satellite tracking of every vehicle & the revenue could go to the exact km the vehicle drives on.
The government could also use this system as a congestion tax & time of day tax, driving between 3 & 5am is the cheapest to get people off roads in busier times for example.
Outbackroads which need more upgrading could be levied on a sliding scale.
If you drive on a wet dirt road the levy could be increased dramatically.
When towing your car would transmit the trailer's rego so you would pay an increased km levy based on the mass of the trailer, only fair as some don't tow.
A satellite system would also allow point to point speed checking on every road.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 10:19:53 AM

your starting to sound like a consultant for the ATO! I think they will come up with ways to separate us from our money with out us helping them and giving them more ideas then they already have biggrin

-- Edited by dogbox on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 11:21:55 AM

travellinglew · Member

Would seem to me that the fairest thing to do would be to adopt something that has a registration fee based on the weight of the vehicle and the k's driven. Drop all fuel and excise taxes. That way a driver gets to pay for the damage he does to the road. Not sure how we include vehicles that do not have a speedo but I am sure the powers that be could work it out. This would have the benefit of encouraging many people to leave the car at home and take a bus. Have to agree that push bikes need to be included in this as well.

Whenarewethere · Guru

It was a facetious comment, but one should be careful what one asks for.

Maybe with bike registration, car owners get a discount on their car's registration as they can't drive a car while riding a bike.

Pram owners are taking up too much space, they could pay parking fees!

bgt · Guru

Without starting another argument there is a real disconnect between city and country folks. City folk have options such as public transport. They also have less k's to drive to the supermarkets. Country folk 'need' their vehicles and travel further just for everyday tasks. Any system based on k's and/or weight will discriminate against country folk. Increase/add an extra one off tax at purchase time for the life of the vehicle and scrap any idea of any form of usage tax such as fuel.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Country people are already discriminated as they have higher average fuel costs they city drivers, distances are much longer & they need heavier build cars for the poor quality roads.

So each road could be given a value. Inner city road you pay X per km, outer city Y, country Z, inner city congestion X++ etc.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 12:43:22 PM

dabbler · Guru

It's been decades since the various taxes we pay on vehicle use (fuel taxes, rego etc) has come remotely close to covering the cost of road construction and maintenance, and pollies well know this. There are a number if reasons, all well documented. I doubt we will see an EV specific road tax. We are more likely to see a total vehicle tax system replacement than one that augments a diminishing tax system.

Greystone · Senior Member

I believe that most EVs use local roads that are maintained by the local councils who are allocated federal subsidies based on politics. Fuel tax goes into the federal general revenue. It is not necessarily used for road building and maintenance and certainly doesn't go to local councils. An EV tax to "contribute" to road maintenance is a myth designed to discourage the uptake of EVs.

Knight · Senior Member

Greystone wrote:
I believe that most EVs use local roads that are maintained by the local councils who are allocated federal subsidies based on politics. Fuel tax goes into the federal general revenue. It is not necessarily used for road building and maintenance and certainly doesn't go to local councils. An EV tax to "contribute" to road maintenance is a myth designed to discourage the uptake of EVs.

So loss of fuel tax revenue, $18 billion a year at present, would be recovered how or government would not bother if EV registrations increased?

When there was a government subsidised LPG conversion agenda and LPG sales increased tax was applied to offset the petrol and diesel tax lost.

-- Edited by Knight on Wednesday 30th of October 2019 02:48:46 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I suggest that 90% of new road construction and 99% of road damage is due to commercial vehicles rather than cars, so there are options there which include an annual fee depending on weight and use.
If governments wish to reduce that road wear and tear they should be investing in railways for our long distance freight.
Cheers,
Peter

Greystone · Senior Member

If the government wants to increase revenue, the easiest way would be to use existing systems, like personal tax, GST etc. To levy a new tax, like an EV tax requires a whole new system of collection and monitoring. There would be significant costs involved in setting it up and enforcing it. I'll believe it when I see it!

Knight · Senior Member

Greystone wrote:
If the government wants to increase revenue, the easiest way would be to use existing systems, like personal tax, GST etc. To levy a new tax, like an EV tax requires a whole new system of collection and monitoring. There would be significant costs involved in setting it up and enforcing it. I'll believe it when I see it!

EV tax would not be about increasing revenue, first and foremost would be replacing falling revenue as less fuel tax revenue is collected.

Vehicle registration is a tax, so government could add an electric vehicle public road surcharge, like the carbon tax of 10% and the renewable energy surcharge 10% that was included on electricity bills.

As I posted above, when more LPG was being sold the tax was increased and the excuse was to recover fuel tax revenue falling.

Greystone · Senior Member

Fuel taxes are levied at the point of sale. So effectively the seller is the collector. Individual tax on vehicles is much more complicated to collect and enforce. Take vehicle registration as an example. Its enforcement requires traffic police. It's a state responsibility. How is the federal government going to enforce a national vehicle tax?

Knight · Senior Member

GST is collected by the Federal ATO and then distributed to State and Territory Governments.

Carbon tax and renewable energy surcharge were added to electricity bills and sent to the ATO like GST.

The Federal Government will not allow $18 billion a year of fuel tax revenue to disappear as electric vehicles replace internal combustion engine vehicles, there will be a replacement.

Before GST there was Wholesale Sales Tax levied by the Federal Government, 17.5% up to 27.5% depending on the goods.

-- Edited by Knight on Thursday 31st of October 2019 01:27:00 PM

Valkie · Veteran Member

You can bet ..whatever you like, that the grubberment has some plans in place to get their "share" of any electric vehicles.

They are already talking about a congestion tax.

This is a sneaky way to tax the leccy vehicles.

People would still have to pay to drive in the city, and eventually everywhere in the surrounding areas, even if they drive leccy vehicles.

But no grubberment on earth would simply roll over and miss out on the billions of dollars in tax revenue lost by vehicles not using fuel.

Remember, the grubberments primary objective

TO SEPERATE THE TAXPAYER FROM THEIR MONEY, SO THEY CAN LIVE LIKE KINGS

dabbler · Guru

To date, the Federal govt has rolled over in the face of diminishing fuel taxes. Well before EV existed in Oz, fuel tax revenues were dropping. In part, our roads are being straightened and flattened under various govt programs and each successive govt knew the run-on effects. There have been a number if reports generated, discussing alternatives but none have been pushed by one side or the other. We will see a replacement but the amount is small potatoes really. Because a new tax is a good way to lose an election, as vested interests spread disinformation, future govts might continue to roll over for some time yet.