GVM and gcm upgrade dmax

travelyounger · Guru

GVM and gcm upgrade dmax

Brenda and Alan · Guru

I was under the impression that increases to GCM were no longer legal under federal laws. Is your engineering paperwork only legal in NSW. The reason I ask is that I have recently had a GVM upgrade to a nissan patrol engineered to federal approval standards and no increase in GCM was allowed.

Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 26th of July 2019 06:06:02 AM

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 26th of July 2019 06:06:52 AM

montie · Guru

That combination can never be loaded to 7.1 tonnes legally.
Max it can be loaded to is 6750kg assuming a 350kg ball weight.

yobarr · Guru

travelyounger wrote:
Just had a lovellls upgrade in nsw rego 2nd stage of manufacters 3.6 tonne gvm 7.1 tonne gcm it has an engineered certificate and 3600 gvm upgrade on rms papers 7.1 tonne gcm upgrade papers carried in vehicle at all times . I have travelled 70000 km from New and travelled the roper bar to king ash bay oodanatta to flinders ranges and many outback highways as you all know are demanding on your rig and driving skills. I have serviced at every 10000 km and also do oil change every 10000 .I know sometimes I must get confused with all those axle weights and the weight that you put on the axle all I need to no is my gvm - towball weight + gtm and that is all that required to be legal. Izuzu have engineered there chassis and drive train to cope with these stresses I have always carried these weights never had any problems braking . I would recommend for anyone to upgrade to be legal and have a more comfortable ride cheers

I am not sure whether you are being mischievous,or you simply have a bad memory,but you recently submitted a similar post.My explanation of the facts was accompanied by an invitation to converse on the telephone,and to this end I contacted you both on this site as a PM,and from my personal email address.The phone number that you agreed to send seems not to have arrived? To refresh your memory,I will again summarise the situation. You have absolutely NO chance of getting anywhere near 7100kg GCM...NONE.As Monty pointed out,your 3600kg GVM includes 350kg towball weight,or 10% of your vans 3500kg ATM.If you could ever get 3600kg onto your cars wheels....and you will not...the car would have 3600kg on its wheels,while the vans GTM (weight on wheels) would be 3150kg.This would give you a GCM of 6750kg....a long way from 7100kg.Like an LC200,the ONLY way to get near the claimed GCM is to tow a DOG trailer.Your car has a wheelbase of 3095mm and a TBO (towball overhang,or distance from rear axle to hitchpoint) of around 1450mm.This means that a towball weight of 350kg puts over 500kg onto your cars rear axle,and takes about 160kg off the front axle.With your upgrade your front axle is rated at 1450kg,so even if you were able to get it loaded to 1450kg,as soon as you connect your van that axle comes back to 1290kg.Now,your rear axle is rated at 2150kg,so if we add that to the 1290kg on the front axle,we have a car with weight on wheels of 3440kg.Add your vans GTM (weight on wheels) of 3150kg and you have a GCM of 6590kg.......light years away from 7100kg, you would agree? And please do not mention a WDH as this only increase your TBO and puts even MORE weight onto your cars rear axle.When tensioned it puts SOME weight back onto your cars front axle,but it also puts weight onto your vans axle group so instantly you exceed your vans ATM so you are overloaded,illegal,and uninsured.Once again,I will ask you to actually READ the facts,rather than just look at them,and if you would like to discuss further,my invitation to talk still stands.Cheers

Eaglemax · Guru

travelyounger wrote:
Just had a lovellls upgrade in nsw rego 2nd stage of manufacters 3.6 tonne gvm 7.1 tonne gcm it has an engineered certificate and 3600 gvm upgrade on rms papers 7.1 tonne gcm upgrade papers carried in vehicle at all times . I have travelled 70000 km from New and travelled the roper bar to king ash bay oodanatta to flinders ranges and many outback highways as you all know are demanding on your rig and driving skills. I have serviced at every 10000 km and also do oil change every 10000 .I know sometimes I must get confused with all those axle weights and the weight that you put on the axle all I need to no is my gvm - towball weight + gtm and that is all that required to be legal. Izuzu have engineered there chassis and drive train to cope with these stresses I have always carried these weights never had any problems braking . I would recommend for anyone to upgrade to be legal and have a more comfortable ride cheers

Hi travelyounger

So, you've got the legal aspect in black and white from Yobarr and Monty, I'm wondering if that information has swayed your thoughts on your rig now? It isn't easy swallowing counter claims of information once you've set up your rig. If so, what changes are you contemplating to lower GCM to 6750kg? More info on your rig and pics would help if you want some advice. Regards Tony.

yobarr · Guru

Eaglemax wrote:

Hi travelyounger

So, you've got the legal aspect in black and white from Yobarr and Monty, I'm wondering if that information has swayed your thoughts on your rig now? It isn't easy swallowing counter claims of information once you've set up your rig. If so, what changes are you contemplating to lower GCM to 6750kg? More info on your rig and pics would help if you want some advice. Regards Tony.

Hi Tony....seems that we may have at least got them thinking,but,so far,no response.The best GCM that they will be able to legally reach is under 6600kg,as outlined below.Very difficult,almost impossible,to get 1450kg on front axle,even without van connected,and as soon as the van is hooked up,that 1450kg will drop to 1290kg with the 160kg that is transferred to the rear axle of the car,in addition to the towball weight of 350kg.(Total of over 500kg added to rear axle of car).When that front axle weight of 1290kg is added to the rear axle max load capacity of 2150kg,we have GVM of 3440kg. The GTM is 3150kg (3500kg ATM minus 350kg towball weight).We then add 3150kg and 3440kg to get GCM of 6590kg...end of story.And IF they are over that figure it will be more than likely that it is the rear axle of the car that is overloaded.Cheers.

Rusty W · Veteran Member

Travelyounger never said what his rig actually weighed or what his towball weight was. If his towball weight was say 200 kg it would put an extra 150 kg to his GTM and he could put an extra 150 kg in the back of his ute an extra 150 kg total load, still not 7 tonne but getting up there. Also his front axle would be heavier than 1290 kg unless his extra 150 kg was right at the back.

regards Russell

Eaglemax · Guru

Russell, The OP said "Izuzu have engineered there chassis and drive train to cope with these stresses I have always carried these weights never had any problems braking" He was referring to 3600gvm and 7100kg gcm. No other weights were mentioned. I stand corrected.

travelyounger · Guru

The gcm is nsw and vic but covered nationally if you sell your car to someone interstate you will have to get the vehicle re engineered in that state and depending on that state laws you loose the upgrade .my current van has a gtm of 2.8 and towball of 250 kg but looking at a new van with a 3.5 gtm and tare weight of 2.6 but does not mean that I will load to the max as I know the vehicle will be working hard . Yobarr I will contact you cheers

montie · Guru

travelyounger wrote:
The gcm is nsw and vic but covered nationally if you sell your car to someone interstate you will have to get the vehicle re engineered in that state and depending on that state laws you loose the upgrade .my current van has a gtm of 2.8 and towball of 250 kg but looking at a new van with a 3.5 gtm and tare weight of 2.6 but does not mean that I will load to the max as I know the vehicle will be working hard . Yobarr I will contact you cheers

With a GTM of 3.5 tonne and a ball weight of 250kg you now have a van with an ATM of 3750kg which takes you into another level of ratings.

I would be trying to keep the van ATM at 3500kg or under.

montie · Guru

Eaglemax wrote:
travelyounger wrote:
Just had a lovellls upgrade in nsw rego 2nd stage of manufacters 3.6 tonne gvm 7.1 tonne gcm it has an engineered certificate and 3600 gvm upgrade on rms papers 7.1 tonne gcm upgrade papers carried in vehicle at all times . I have travelled 70000 km from New and travelled the roper bar to king ash bay oodanatta to flinders ranges and many outback highways as you all know are demanding on your rig and driving skills. I have serviced at every 10000 km and also do oil change every 10000 .I know sometimes I must get confused with all those axle weights and the weight that you put on the axle all I need to no is my gvm - towball weight + gtm and that is all that required to be legal. Izuzu have engineered there chassis and drive train to cope with these stresses I have always carried these weights never had any problems braking . I would recommend for anyone to upgrade to be legal and have a more comfortable ride cheers
Hi travelyounger
So, you've got the legal aspect in black and white from Yobarr and Monty, I'm wondering if that information has swayed your thoughts on your rig now? It isn't easy swallowing counter claims of information once you've set up your rig. If so, what changes are you contemplating to lower GCM to 6750kg? More info on your rig and pics would help if you want some advice. Regards Tony.

With a ball weight of 250kg he can load the combination to 6850kg.

Generally speaking if you stay within a tug's GVM rating your axle weights are usually OK, however with GVM upgrades axle ratings can be an issue.

Personally I am not a fan of GVM upgrades on tow vehicles and imo 3250kg ATM should be the limit for standard tugs. That is just my opinion and not the current legal situation of course.

yobarr · Guru

travelyounger wrote:
The gcm is nsw and vic but covered nationally if you sell your car to someone interstate you will have to get the vehicle re engineered in that state and depending on that state laws you loose the upgrade .my current van has a gtm of 2.8 and towball of 250 kg but looking at a new van with a 3.5 gtm and tare weight of 2.6 but does not mean that I will load to the max as I know the vehicle will be working hard . Yobarr I will contact you cheers

Can I just say that I think that you have confused GTM (weight on van wheels) with GVM (ATM) as there is no way you can tow a van with GTM of 3500kg.Assuming 10% towball weight,this would mean that the GVM/ATM was between 3850kg and 3900kg (depending on how the maths is done) and WAY outside your towing capacity.Cheers

yobarr · Guru

Rusty W wrote:
Travelyounger never said what his rig actually weighed or what his towball weight was. If his towball weight was say 200 kg it would put an extra 150 kg to his GTM and he could put an extra 150 kg in the back of his ute an extra 150 kg total load, still not 7 tonne but getting up there. Also his front axle would be heavier than 1290 kg unless his extra 150 kg was right at the back.

regards Russell

Hi Russell..... no doubt you have only good intentions,but posts such as yours only further confuse those who have little understanding of weights.The car being discussed has no way of safely getting more than 6590kg GCM.....none. Again I will say that 1290kg is the maximum he can get on the front axle.Because a 350kg towball weight,on this car,takes around 160kg off the front axle,if he wanted to run at 1450kg on the front axle with the van attached,there would need to be 1610kg on the front axle before hooking up. (1610kg minus 160kg=1450kg).Impossible. Furthermore,because the 350kg towball weight adds over 500kg to the car rear axle,that axle weight can be no more than 1650kg (2150kg minus 500kg) before the van is connected. Weight on wheels of car would thus be 3260kg,but illegal. And could I suggest that a ball weight of 200kg on a 3500kg ATM van (5.7%) is stupidity in the extreme? Unfortunately I have things to do,so I cannot elaborate,but if you care to READ my earlier posts on this thread,all is explained.Later this morning I will again address this topic.Cheers.

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 28th of July 2019 08:43:34 AM

Rusty W · Veteran Member

Yobarr, why are you obsessed with a 10% ball weight ? A lot of european vans have far less than 10%and don't crash every day. Even Monty suggested he could have a 250 kg ball weight. As at time of righting we didn't know, but turns out he does have a 250 kg ball weight and just over 3 tonne all up weight van.

The distance of the axle to tow ball on overall length ratio is probably just as important, the further back the axle is the more stable the rig is.

Just to frighten you my compliance plate on my rig states ATM 3500 kg and GTM 3450 kg and no my ball weight is not 50 kg but could be and legal.

regards Russell

montie · Guru

Rusty W wrote:
Yobarr, why are you obsessed with a 10% ball weight ? A lot of european vans have far less than 10%and don't crash every day. Even Monty suggested he could have a 250 kg ball weight. As at time of righting we didn't know, but turns out he does have a 250 kg ball weight and just over 3 tonne all up weight van.

The distance of the axle to tow ball on overall length ratio is probably just as important, the further back the axle is the more stable the rig is.

Just to frighten you my compliance plate on my rig states ATM 3500 kg and GTM 3450 kg and no my ball weight is not 50 kg but could be and legal.

regards Russell

Russell,

I was referring to the OP's statement that his actual ball weight was 250kg and was not using that number as a recommendation.

I agree with Yobarr that the ideal measured ball weight should be in the vicinity of 10% of the loaded van as a general rule. There is no legal requirement in this regard, just a rule of thumb.

yobarr · Guru

pRusty W wrote:
Yobarr, why are you obsessed with a 10% ball weight ? A lot of european vans have far less than 10%and don't crash every day. Even Monty suggested he could have a 250 kg ball weight. As at time of righting we didn't know, but turns out he does have a 250 kg ball weight and just over 3 tonne all up weight van.
The distance of the axle to tow ball on overall length ratio is probably just as important, the further back the axle is the more stable the rig is.
Just to frighten you my compliance plate on my rig states ATM 3500 kg and GTM 3450 kg and no my ball weight is not 50 kg but could be and legal.
regards Russell

Hi Russell....We are not discussing lightweight vans from Europe,towed by Cortinas (sic) and the like,rather we are discussing 3000kg-3500kg OZ built vans.If safety is of any concern,the GENERALLY ACCEPTED towball weight is 10%. Had you actually READ the previous posts you would have seen that the OP seems to have confused ATM and GTM as evidenced by his (her?) comments that they have a GTM of 2.8 with 250kg ball weight.I suggest that this is perhaps 2800kg ATM,with 250kg ball weight.....about 10% (actually 9%,but maybe OK).This opinion is reinforced by the OP then saying that the new van they are looking at has a GTM of 3500kg! This may well be the case,but this GTM capacity is absolutely useless,as,with their car,they cannot get more than 3150kg onto those axles if SAFETY is of ANY concern. Posts such as yours further confuse those who have little understanding of weights,and I can only despair that you have even bothered to include your last sentence.At all times I try to help newbies (and others!) understand weights.Posts such as yours serve only to totally confuse many,I suggest.Have a great day.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 29th of July 2019 10:46:06 AM

iana · Guru

I think we need to invite people to participate in this forum, our responses to questions, may well mean that person leaves never to return. So we need to consider our answers, turn the thread into an invite and conversation. Sometimes hard facts can leave a person crest fallen, having spent money and effort in the process.
I am not saying the advice shouldn't be given, But to present it in a nicer way.

Olive Oil · Senior Member

The most common sense thing to do is to buy a caravan that weighs substantially less than the maximum legal towing capability of your car.

That way you'll have peace of mind & not have to ''split hairs'' to achieve legality.

Your car will probably last longer too. smile

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

iana wrote:
I think we need to invite people to participate in this forum, our responses to questions, may well mean that person leaves never to return. So we need to consider our answers, turn the thread into an invite and conversation. Sometimes hard facts can leave a person crest fallen, having spent money and effort in the process.
I am not saying the advice shouldn't be given, But to present it in a nicer way.

I think that is a very good point. Unfortunately there are some that just need to show their knowledge or ignorance in a display of rudeness and the end result is that the the guy that posted is so put off he wont come back on.

When I read the original post I didnt see any question as to how good or bad his upgrade or his choice of vehicle was. He states that the company that did his upgrade supplies the Paperwork which provides state authorities with the approval to load the vehicle to the new upgraded weights. He states that he is happy to be able to travel as planned with confidence.

Unfortunately this is ignored by a few who seem to insist that if the vehicle selection and subsequent modification is not what they think is right then the entire combination needs to be scrapped.

Some time ago on here just after I joined I stated that I may replace my old ute with a newer model and I was fortunate enough in that topic not to suffer the wrath of the people who need to insist that all but one model and brand of ute is no good for caravanning.

This negative attitude happens on here on a regular basis and even in my shorter time on this forum I have seen a person post and then after ridicule, they never return.

Shame that this happens but unfortunately it does.

yobarr · Guru

iana wrote:
I think we need to invite people to participate in this forum, our responses to questions, may well mean that person leaves never to return. So we need to consider our answers, turn the thread into an invite and conversation. Sometimes hard facts can leave a person crest fallen, having spent money and effort in the process.
I am not saying the advice shouldn't be given, But to present it in a nicer way.

Hi Ian....I absolutely agree with your sentiments.However,when those who have limited knowledge of a topic decide to openly dispute the actual facts presented by other members,the only losers are the very people who are seeking help.Always I am happy to help,but to then have the facts openly challenged by those with little apparent knowledge is disappointing.Not knowing about something is acceptable,but I suggest that arguing about something of which you have little knowledge is not.Cheers.

yobarr · Guru

Olive Oil wrote:
The most common sense thing to do is to buy a caravan that weighs substantially less than the maximum legal towing capability of your car.
That way you'll have peace of mind & not have to ''split hairs'' to achieve legality.
Your car will probably last longer too.

Hi DD....that is one if the most sensible comments I have seen in a long while.If safety is of ANY concern,the weight on the wheels of the car should always be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van.With my car I can run at 6800kg GCM,legal on all axles,with the car more than 15% heavier than the van.Cheers

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

yobarr wrote:

iana wrote:
I think we need to invite people to participate in this forum, our responses to questions, may well mean that person leaves never to return. So we need to consider our answers, turn the thread into an invite and conversation. Sometimes hard facts can leave a person crest fallen, having spent money and effort in the process.
I am not saying the advice shouldn't be given, But to present it in a nicer way.

Hi Ian....I absolutely agree with your sentiments.However,when those who have limited knowledge of a topic decide to openly dispute the actual facts presented by other members,the only losers are the very people who are seeking help.Always I am happy to help,but to then have the facts openly challenged by those with little apparent knowledge is disappointing.Not knowing about something is acceptable,but I suggest that arguing about something of which you have little knowledge is not.Cheers.

The original poster did not ask a question.

I know that this has been asked before but what are yobbors qualifications on caravanning and motor vehicle weight specifications and engineer and authority approved upgrades.

These upgrades if performed under requirements of law by and by an approved company and certified by an engineer the they are legal. To suggest that they are not need more than a forum rant to suggest that they are not.

As the poster stated he carries his approval papers and that is all he needs to worry about unless he is breaking the regulations pertaining to those papers and approvals.

To answer travelyoungers first post I say well done and enjoy your travels throughout this great country.

yobarr · Guru

Ivan...You obviously either have not read,or do not understand,that Travel younger can NEVER....repeat NEVER...get to 7100kg GCM with a PIG trailer.The ONLY way he can come within cooee of that figure is by having a perfectly loaded car,with 1450kg on the front axle and 2135kg on the rear,towing a 3500kg ATM DOG trailer with minimal tow BAR weight. If that DOG trailer had,say,10kg towbar weight,he could get to 7090kg GCM. The rear axle figure that I have used is 15kg down on the actual car axle capacity because the 10kg towbar weight would add 13-15kg to the rear axle).I sincerely hope that this helps you understand,but there is absolutely NO WAY that he can get to 7100kg GCM,no matter how many bits of paper he chooses to carry.I again urge Travel younger to contact me via PM.Cheers

montie · Guru

Iva Biggen wrote:
yobarr wrote:

iana wrote:
I think we need to invite people to participate in this forum, our responses to questions, may well mean that person leaves never to return. So we need to consider our answers, turn the thread into an invite and conversation. Sometimes hard facts can leave a person crest fallen, having spent money and effort in the process.
I am not saying the advice shouldn't be given, But to present it in a nicer way.

Hi Ian....I absolutely agree with your sentiments.However,when those who have limited knowledge of a topic decide to openly dispute the actual facts presented by other members,the only losers are the very people who are seeking help.Always I am happy to help,but to then have the facts openly challenged by those with little apparent knowledge is disappointing.Not knowing about something is acceptable,but I suggest that arguing about something of which you have little knowledge is not.Cheers.
The original poster did not ask a question.
I know that this has been asked before but what are yobbors qualifications on caravanning and motor vehicle weight specifications and engineer and authority approved upgrades.
These upgrades if performed under requirements of law by and by an approved company and certified by an engineer the they are legal. To suggest that they are not need more than a forum rant to suggest that they are not.
As the poster stated he carries his approval papers and that is all he needs to worry about unless he is breaking the regulations pertaining to those papers and approvals.
To answer travelyoungers first post I say well done and enjoy your travels throughout this great country.

Those of us who know what we are talking about can only offer the correct advice, whether that advice is heeded is purely a matter for the recipient.

As Yobarr and I have pointed out there is no way Travelyounger can load his combination to 7100kg legally and that's the reality.

Ivan, if you know otherwise please post this advice for Travelyounger's benefit but support your post with the facts rather than confuse.

-- Edited by montie on Monday 29th of July 2019 01:42:32 PM

boab · Senior Member

a wise man once said to me people who think they know everything annoy the hell out of us that do . there are several contributors on this forum that really do think they know everything

yobarr · Guru

boab wrote:
a wise man once said to me people who think they know everything annoy the hell out of us that do . there are several contributors on this forum that really do think they know everything

Hi Gary....interesting observation,but I am yet to find anyone who claims to know everything? However,there are several here who know a lot about specific topics.Mike Harding seems to know a lot about communication equipment and the like,Peter and Margaret have good knowledge on a range of topics,particularly outback travel,and a couple of people are knowledgeable on weights etc.All that these people can do is give good advice,and hope that such advice is used for the benefit of the recipient. Unfortunately,such advice is sometimes challenged by those who THINK they know stuff,but actually know little.I do not care if my advice is ignored,but I do take umbrage when the facts are openly challenged by those with nothing constructive to offer.All my advice to the OP is indesputable fact,and I can only hope that such advice is taken on board by them, because,in the event of any insurance claim, they will not be covered if they are running at over 6600kg GCM.Sad,inconvenient truth.At least I have done what I can to help.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 29th of July 2019 06:06:46 PM

SouthernComfort · Guru

If we sit back and think about it calmly and logically, the principal of so called 'upgrading' GVM and/or GCM to me is playing with fire. I've never understood the logic. In reality it means stretching a vehicle's capacity beyond the limits intended by the manufacturer for safe use. In fact, to even stack a vehicle with a payload, trailer weight, or other load specification such as ball and axle loads that are right up to the manufacturer's limits, means you're operating at just under breaking point on one component or another. And if that component gives up due to sustained stress, potentially the whole rig is up the famous creek. So whatever happened to allowing a margin for safety?

Would we happily climb aboard an aircraft or a boat that we knew had been loaded beyond it's original intended capacities, based on some after-market re-engineering to create a set of new limits? If your body weight is 99.99kg and you let yourself dangle over a cliff edge on rope with a 100kg breaking strain, would you feel safe? There is no common sense reason to push these boundaries. I don't care what may be considered legal, if the van and car are mismatched one of 'em has to go. As someone else said, get the match right to include a decent margin.

Just my opinion folks. I'm not an engineer nor am I presuming to give to advice to travelyounger or anyone else, simply expressing how I look at it, mainly because I prefer not to be on the same road as one of these pumped up rigs.

Eaglemax · Guru

Iva Biggen wrote:
yobarr wrote:

iana wrote:
I think we need to invite people to participate in this forum, our responses to questions, may well mean that person leaves never to return. So we need to consider our answers, turn the thread into an invite and conversation. Sometimes hard facts can leave a person crest fallen, having spent money and effort in the process.
I am not saying the advice shouldn't be given, But to present it in a nicer way.

Hi Ian....I absolutely agree with your sentiments.However,when those who have limited knowledge of a topic decide to openly dispute the actual facts presented by other members,the only losers are the very people who are seeking help.Always I am happy to help,but to then have the facts openly challenged by those with little apparent knowledge is disappointing.Not knowing about something is acceptable,but I suggest that arguing about something of which you have little knowledge is not.Cheers.
The original poster did not ask a question.
I know that this has been asked before but what are yobbors qualifications on caravanning and motor vehicle weight specifications and engineer and authority approved upgrades.
These upgrades if performed under requirements of law by and by an approved company and certified by an engineer the they are legal. To suggest that they are not need more than a forum rant to suggest that they are not.
As the poster stated he carries his approval papers and that is all he needs to worry about unless he is breaking the regulations pertaining to those papers and approvals.
To answer travelyoungers first post I say well done and enjoy your travels throughout this great country.

Hi Iva,

I get your point actually. There is no doubt Yobarr and with the support of Monty (both very knowledgeable with weights) are correct. No one needs engineering qualifications to correctly weigh their rig therefore they can recommend advice based on their knowledge. The "approved upgrades" have benefits in many situations but at the top of the towing weight world eg 3000-3500+ kg that's where the problems begin and the debate rages. These guys know what they are talking about and I don't think they are portraying that they know everything.

However, the OP hasn't returned and that should be looked at. Yobarr has mentioned weights in 8 posts to date and most times used capital letters and what I see as aggressive speech eg " NEVER....repeat NEVER..." "NO chance of getting anywhere near 7100kg GCM...NONE" "I will ask you to actually READ the facts,rather than just look at them"

I don't see a need to repeat the facts laid out in the original reply several times nor computer yelling with capital letters. That is akin to ramming it down ones throat. Nor words that can intimidate like "read the facts rather than just look at them". The purpose of informing another is to invite the OP to discuss and allow him/her to soak the information in. That isn't an easy process for some especially when it comes to the confusion caravan weights present itself. If the OP doesn't return then most of the message is lost. Has he been invited to respond rather than feel intimidated we could have explained ways to tow legally or he could have explained how even though he has the upgrade he doesn't intend to tow the max that his upgrade allows or he wont now due to the forum advice.

Getting frustrated at a poster due to their lack of knowledge or not responding to your advice in the way you would like isn't achieving a goal for being safer. It's all in the delivery and repetition not the content.

Tony

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Thank you for comments Tony and your observation of the current situation.

I am bewildered why a couple of people without any qualifications can gain support by any forum member unless, of course they may provide actual proof of their qualifications.
Anyway lets just leave that for now.

Lets look at this from a totally non biased and practical view.

The upgrade GVM weight on a the OPs vehicle. = Upgrade 3600 kg
This means that the owner or operator can load this approved vehicle so as not to exceed this 3600 kg weight. At this stage it has nothing to do with towing a caravan, a box trailer, a pig trailer or a dog trailer.
So then apart from the GVM of the DMax the GCM has apparently been legally approved to a maximum of 7100 kg.
OK so then now that DMax can tow a trailer but the total combination of weight can not exceed 7100 kg.

I will add here that all govt authorities have actually approved this upgrade according to the OP.

So we have all got that, I hope.

So next we have a caravan or any trailer for that matter with a dual axle (or maybe even a tri axle ) combination that has a manufacturers approval to carry 3500 kg on that axle group.
Do we all understand that this caravan or trailer weighs less than 3500kg when empty but can be legally loaded to 3500 kg on this axle group without legal penalty.
I need to absolutely impress that this is the approved axle weight on the caravan or trailer and has no bearing on the gvm of the caravan or trailer so in other words this does not include tow ball weight.

Now, what we all need to completely understand is that the bloke in the original post may or may not have a caravan that weighs as much as this but, we will carry on regardless.

So this DMax owner loads his vehicle to his approved 3600 kg including (not plus,,, but including ) his allowable 350 kg tow ball allowance but lets not go with the old assumptions which mean nothing in actual law.

So now we have a DMax with a tow ball weight transferred to the vehicle of 350kg with a loaded value of 3250kg just some how magically we have a vehicle gvm of ( have we all guessed it ) 3600kg which strangely seems to equal the maximum allowance of the new gvm upgrade on our OPs DMax.

So off he goes on his journey around our beautiful country with his completely legal, be it loaded to maximum, Dmax and caravan or any other trailer with a gross combination mass of....7100 kg which is the vehicle weight including tow ball transfer weight of 350 kg making total of (3600) and an axle group of allowable weight of 3500 kg and there you go 7100 legal gross combination mass without the hoo haa.

Now I am not for one minute suggesting that the OP is loaded and or towing a caravan that is the weight of my example above but with the approval as he has stated he has for his vehicle, he can legally do it.

The confusing part here is that the main instigator of this anti update on anything but his own 79 series Toyota is that the rest of the people can not comply due mainly to his twisted view of weight upgrades on vehicles.
The problem that really comes about is actually that Lovells are to my knowledge, the only company that can actually approve GCM as well as GVM. I think this may become a problem in some accepting that the others can not do this GCM update.

Now I need to inform you all that I am not a mechanical engineer but I had some experience when my son who owns ( shock horror to yobarr) a 200 series and went through the GVM GCM upgrade with Lovells.
I am a motor mechanic by trade and my son asked me to look into all aspects of these upgrades.
I did so with an open mind and with all paperwork and genuine Lovells modifications in place including engineering and government authority approval and government inspection he can have a GVM of 3800 and a GCM of 7300 which if you note is in similar proportions to the DMax although the 200 is a bit heavier in its original tare weight.
At the time I did this research for my son there was no other manufacturer that could do what they could do with approved GVM and GCM.
My sons van has an axle rating of 3500 kg. I am not saying that his van has a GVM of 3850kg but if it did he would be totally legal at 7300 GCM provided he did not exceed the GVM of the 200 series of 3800kg.

Now Montie I can not explain it in any other way and as you do know there are many caravan manufacturers that have installed in a fairly standard configuration, axle groups that are completely approved for 3500 kg.
The only, and I will repeat, the only reason that most of these vans are only rated a 3500 GVM is so You dealers can sell them to people who either wont upgrade their vehicle with an approved manufacturer or they wont buy a larger heavier rated vehicle.

If travelyounger the OP came into your dealership with his vehicle, approved paperwork on his upgrades, and his cheque book would you not sell him a van with the specs as per my example provided to you above by me?

If yobar came into your dealership and wanted to buy a van under the GVM upgrade of his 79 series but without GCM approval for a van with weights configured the same as in the sample I have had to provide above to prove my point would you deny him the purchase?

If my son came into your dealership with the approvals in place as stated above would you deny him or sell him a van of the same specs as in my proof sample above?

When selling a van there is not one dealer that can control how a consumer loads his or her van or what modification that they do to there vehicle with before or after the sale...that is how it is. If the dealer asks what vehicle he is going to use to tow his van with a GVM of for example 3300kg and he is there with a 3500 capacity DMax or 200 series or any other make then he would be sold the van.

I will get a pic of the actual compliance plate from my sons 200 series and post it to indicate genuine compliance.

What I suggest to anyone who is contemplating an upgrade on a vehicle or even a van for that matter, go to a weighbridge first and weigh your van and vehicle loaded and then assess wether you need to remove some of the load or upgrade the vehicle provided there is a suitable upgrade available and do plenty of research on who you might use to provide the upgrade as a cheap price might be a good deal for the wallet but not so when your wallet has to back you on the authorities weighbridge or if you are arguing with an insurance company after the event of an accident

To the OP I apologise that you post of a general nature has been dragged into another forum argument but I will say once again...well done and enjoy your travels throughout this great country.

-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Monday 29th of July 2019 10:05:48 PM

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Here is the compliance plate and this comes from Lovells with all the approved necessary paperwork to have your rego papers and files updated.