Electric tow vehicles

Phillipn · Guru

Electric tow vehicles

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

And some can not see beyond their noses.
EVs will become the norm because they will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and cheaper to maintain. Simple really. You won't be able to stop it.
Long range electric vehicles will use hydrogen powered fuel cells to make the electricity as they go. All currently used technology.
We have solar on our home. We generate about 3 or 4 times the power than we use. Powering a car even partly would be a great saving for us. In general, many electrical power generation systems will be small and localised.
Cheers,
Peter

wasn_me · Guru

How many billion dollars are raised per year from fuel excise? Where is this revenue going to come from if no fuel or less fuel is sold?

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

wasn_me wrote:
How many billion dollars are raised per year from fuel excise? Where is this revenue going to come from if no fuel or less fuel is sold?

Increases in vehicle registration maybe?

Cheers,

Peter

Whenarewethere · Guru

Number plate recognition cameras on a critical coverage of thoroughfares. It's already out there just needs expanding.

Etag expansion.

I read something many years ago. The government has been long trialling a number of things, they are keeping things under wraps as the government doesn't want to spook their voters.

Any government's biggest problem is how to shift & maximize blaming an opposition for introducing a new 'tax'.

Wanda · Guru

Phillip
I think you are worrying over nothing, chill out, enjoy your travels while you are still here.
There WILL be change, there has been change, there has to be change, WE just have to accept it.
You and I may not see electric cars, 4x4 etc etc, take over completely from oil, but, they are on there way, for the better.

cheers
Ian
PS: How is your old T model going, must be feeling it after all its towing!!

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Many who think that long range electric vehicles like trucks and those towing caravans won't or can't happen may need to consider the heaviest, longest range transport that we have is electric. TRAINS. And they have been electric ever since steam was replaced.
They develop their electric power using diesel generators, but it is a relatively small step to change that to hydrogen powered fuel cells.
Here is one. It uses natural gas as a fuel and generates about 13,000kWh (that is enough for a couple of houses at least) of electricity per year for half the cost of grid power. It is the size of a refrigerator and is virtually silent. www.solidpower.com/en/bluegen/
It does not take too much imagination to imagine the possibilities when some manufacturing volume gets employed.
Bring it on!
Cheers,
Peter

Greystone · Senior Member

I just read in the Guardian that Toyota is well on track to electrify their entire vehicle lineup by 2025. That's only 6 years to go!

Whenarewethere · Guru

Australia was stupid enough to build a DC train network. About as smart as building 3 gauges!

PeterD · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
Australia was stupid enough to build a DC train network. About as smart as building 3 gauges!

When the electric train networks were introduced the technology to emplou AC power was not as convenient as DC control. When Dr John Bradfield built the Sydney system much of the city was wired with D power. It was used for electric motors, especially the winding motors in the lifts in buildings. This system was running in parallel with the AC power used for lighting.

The Sydney DC mains existed well after the way. It is easier for new building systems to be introduced as they do not have to integrate with other systems like you have to do with the rail systems.

PeterD · Guru

Every time the subject of electric vehicles is raised it brings out the usual ratbag replies from people who think the current technology will be that that will be used in the vehicles in 10 years time. The technology employed in the years to come will be much more sophisticated than that currently being employed now. Electric vehicles will recharge much quicker then than now. They will probably have a much longer range as well.

Just compare the internal combustion motor development. Our vehicles are far different from the old ones with their trembler ignition.

Our vehicles are supplied from overseas. When they stop producing petrol and diesel they will not be available to us anyway. Stop using the King Canute principle. It will get you no where.

Mariner30 · Senior Member

There would have to be better charging points and infrastructure in the next ten years, If only to stop the current ratbag owners of these new fangled contraptions stealing electricity from wherever they can now if they have the courage to leave whatever capital city they live in, Few months ago parked next to one at a small town commercial fishing marina Wifey asked why it had a extension lead hanging out of it....to recharge the battery, was the reply, Only had enough range to do 100 k's so he plugged it into a spot reserved for commercial fishing boats....as you do, I don't think l would have the balls to do that...some of those chaps can be quite blunt with their speech, Besides l ain't got that many spare squids to buy a electric car anywho... Unless it's one of them pensioner type jiggers...

aussietraveller · Guru

The replacement of revenue to government when fuel excise goes will probably be based on the size of your vehicle and the number of kilometres you travel each year, currently in NSW every time you have a rego check the person doing the check records your current odometer reading on the information provided to the Government, so everything they need to bill you already exists.
I have heard that the NSW Government is already considering this option and getting rid of all fuel tax because there are already a significant number of electric cars registered in NSW and not paying fuel taxes.

Tony Bev · Guru

What Peter, (Peter and Margaret), was saying about Hydrogen

Snip from his post

Long range electric vehicles will use hydrogen powered fuel cells to make the electricity as they go

Below is an article from todays ABC News, which may explain it a bit better, for us laymen

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-11/electric-cars-regional-australia-hydrogen-power-exports-policy/10988844

Whenarewethere · Guru

aussietraveller wrote:
currently in NSW every time you have a rego check the person doing the check records your current odometer reading on the information provided to the Government

Don't bother reversing around the country as the odometer goes forward. At least on my car it does!

Phillipn · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
And some can not see beyond their noses.
EVs will become the norm because they will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and cheaper to maintain. Simple really. You won't be able to stop it.
Long range electric vehicles will use hydrogen powered fuel cells to make the electricity as they go. All currently used technology.
We have solar on our home. We generate about 3 or 4 times the power than we use. Powering a car even partly would be a great saving for us. In general, many electrical power generation systems will be small and localised.
Cheers,
Peter

I knew if I rattled the bucket the pigs would squeal. Mr solar was the first.

The big answer is coal powered generators. I don`t think their will be power lines across the remote areas of this country, I will be like being up a creek without a paddle. disbelief

yobarr · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
aussietraveller wrote:
currently in NSW every time you have a rego check the person doing the check records your current odometer reading on the information provided to the Government
Don't bother reversing around the country as the odometer goes forward. At least on my car it does!

And we all know how simple it is to wind back odometers.Spare Me!

Knight · Senior Member

wasn_me wrote:
How many billion dollars are raised per year from fuel excise? Where is this revenue going to come from if no fuel or less fuel is sold?

$10 billion a year from fuel tax.

Government will recover the lost revenue from EV owners.

Don't forget to include the cost of replacement battery pack as energy cost, 8 years and $15,000 is typical.

Umpie1 · Senior Member

The item that is missing from this discussion is who is going to install the charging infrastructure throughout this vast land of ours? Will it be a Govt enterprise or private enterprise? Think of the mess that is NBN and look at the charges the electricity companies charge you for your domestic supply.

At present our electrical supply system is broken. We have states that cannot guarantee supply during the hottest months and as a result there are brownouts or rolling blackouts. Imagine rolling up to a charging station and finding that there is a blackout so no charging is possible. Our electricity supply system needs to be fixed before we even think of installing charging stations Australia wide.

As to the loss of fuel excise revenue, simple the Commonwealth Govt will put a tax on car registrations that the states will have to remit to Canberra. I can imagine the screaming from the states.

blaze · Guru

if you want, people can come up with 1000 reason that it wont work but change is made with a positive attitude

cheers
blaze

Knight · Senior Member

Phillipn wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
And some can not see beyond their noses.
EVs will become the norm because they will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and cheaper to maintain. Simple really. You won't be able to stop it.
Long range electric vehicles will use hydrogen powered fuel cells to make the electricity as they go. All currently used technology.
We have solar on our home. We generate about 3 or 4 times the power than we use. Powering a car even partly would be a great saving for us. In general, many electrical power generation systems will be small and localised.
Cheers,
Peter
I knew if I rattled the bucket the pigs would squeal. Mr solar was the first.
The big answer is coal powered generators. I don`t think their will be power lines across the remote areas of this country, I will be like being up a creek without a paddle.

Please consider Liddell Power Station, Hunter Valley, NSW which AGL own and plan to shut down soon.

Four generator units of 500 MW so 2000 MW of which 95-98% (capacity factor) is available day and night regardless of wind and sun. Coal fired, steam turbine driving each generator.

Capital Wind Farm near ACT 67 wind turbines on 15,000 acres (6,000 hectares) nameplate/installed capacity 140 MW but 30% capacity factor or average output of energy, 42 MW (could be up to 35%).

Bayswater coal fired Power Station not far away from Liddell shares water storage and coal mine. It has four generator units of 660 MW so 2,640 MW.

There are not enough suitable sites in Australia to install the number of wind turbines required to replace all of the coal fired power stations, and solar won't do the job. Indeed last week it was announced that a solar power station planned for Port Augusta with federal and state government contributions cannot find bankers willing to lend the balance of money. Apparently they realised the capacity factor was 16% compared to 30% for wind turbines.

The only so called renewable energy energy producers/generators are hydro water turbine power stations and in Australia there is insufficient water for large scale hydro. Pumped hydro, the water being pumped back up to the holding dam, is not cost effective which is why the Snowy Mountains Scheme dropped that plan. Also, pumping water uphill requires 20-25% of the energy generated.

Pumped hydro and other "batteries" are back up for unreliable wind and solar systems and add to the infrastructure cost and maintenance. In SA the government has diesel generators and gas fired generators as well as the big battery for backing to avoid blackouts when the grid is destabilising when unreliable don't delivery energy. They also draw from Victoria. The result, the highest pricing for electricity of all states. And now another interconnected is to be built, this one to NSW.

It's a huge mess, we are paying world's highest energy prices and our electricity grid is failing.

Time is running out, new High Energy Low Emissions coal fired power stations are the lowest cost option and we have high grade coal. Next would be gas fired as the US is moving to from coal because gas there is cheaper than coal. Our governments and environmentalists are not allowing hydraulic fracturing for coal seam gas and shale seam gas which the US is exploiting. Of course timber is "green energy", apparently, so wood or other plant matter, biomass is renewable. But the most expensive, most sensible solution would be nuclear power stations. Not necessarily big ones but many small ones using our vast uranium reserves.

The transition to renewables is a get quick rich scheme for investors supported by governments and assisted by penalising coal fired power stations. When you hear that 50 years is the end of their working life ignore it. That is the accounting write off period, they can when maintained operate for 80 or more years. Victoria's Hazlewood Power Station closed despite the operator holding a lease for another couple of decades and a contract for brown coal supplies. The hidden emissions abatement federal legislation (that could be applied to liquid fossil fuel) eats into profit and then the VicGov raised brown coal price to a level that was unaffordable. Result, 25% of Victoria's generating capacity shut down.

There are many politicians who understand the above and much more, I have written to a few. They too are frustrated over the exercise in futility which is lowering CO2 emissions for Paris Agreement, an invisible and odourless gas that is essential for life on Earth. Now just above 400 Parts Per Million in the atmosphere which is not much above plant starvation level. The ideal level would be 1,500 PPM to 2,000 PPM. In US Submarines underwater for weeks at a time 8,000 PPM is not uncommon and no health problems for the crew.

Man made global warming caused by carbon dioxide, CO2, is all about international politics and including Economy Vandalism electric vehicles and RET or unreliable energy super profit machines. And much more.

You are of course right Phillipn, thank you.

Knight · Senior Member

The prosperity the developed world has enjoyed for a couple of hundred years is based on free market capitalism, let the markets/consumers pick winners and losers, not governments/politicians. Russia and China have realised this and adopted the system, they were envious of the wealth and prosperity in the USA and elsewhere.

Based on ignoring natural Earth Cycles of climate changing (climate zones) governments have been interfering in many ways, like energy generation and now vehicles. Of course industries have no choice when, one example, internal combustion engines are placed on notice with a use by date by government, they adapt and change, EV technology being rushed into production to meet the deadline dates. Renewable Energy Target: engineers know that wind and solar cannot compete with power stations, but timelines are timelines and they reinvent the windmill.

These things are not progress, they are forced changes.

mezza56 · Senior Member

Dont worry too much most of you wont have a lic any longer and will probably lived out ur twilight years by then , so no probs

Jimmy Kwaka · Veteran Member

PeterD wrote:
Every time the subject of electric vehicles is raised it brings out the usual ratbag replies from people who think the current technology will be that that will be used in the vehicles in 10 years time. The technology employed in the years to come will be much more sophisticated than that currently being employed now. Electric vehicles will recharge much quicker then than now. They will probably have a much longer range as well.

Just compare the internal combustion motor development. Our vehicles are far different from the old ones with their trembler ignition.

Our vehicles are supplied from overseas. When they stop producing petrol and diesel they will not be available to us anyway. Stop using the King Canute principle. It will get you no where.

Ratbag replies huh? As usual, when the argument is getting away from some, they resort to personal abuse. This is the end for me. It was fun for a little while, but like most forums, a few think they can bulldoze others by belittling them so they can justify themselves and piously proclaim how wonderful and 'progressive' they are. Grow up. As for me, I have better things to do than this. See ya!

Whenarewethere · Guru

A straw pole in our block of Units.

3 out of 4 owners have installed 3 phase to our garage's for electric cars. None of us have one yet but we are preparing.

We have also done some very preliminary work for solar & battery. Even discussed putting in a charging station for those without a garage.

We are putting a lot in the sinking fund so if that is not spent on guttering & the remainder of asbestos removal in 5 years, we could easily shift the funds to electric cars.

We have shifted priority for major upgrades before.

Greystone · Senior Member

An electric Hilux will be available in 6 years time. https://mr4x4.com.au/electric-powered-hilux-within-six-years-confirmed-by-toyota/

blaze · Guru

Greystone wrote:
An electric Hilux will be available in 6 years time. https://mr4x4.com.au/electric-powered-hilux-within-six-years-confirmed-by-toyota/

the end is near, we need to be aware, the world is heading for a better place. trouble is I don't like hiluxs. I am just guessing there will be plenty of others. I see a future where there are a standard chassis, you pick your range between say 200 and a 1000km range then pick the body you want on your chassis, maybe have 1 chassis and a couple of quick change bodies.

cheers

blaze

Ron-D · Guru

Our car alternators charge our batteries,an electric motor spinning at high revs could it possibly drive its own alternator to charge its own battery?and be completely self sufficient in the future..

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I read the other day that Toyota Hilux will have an electric Ute in 5 years and Great Wall are showing a 4x4 one soon.

I said this somewhere recently that I can see the day that the 'roof' of an electric car will be a Solar Panel charging the electrical system. That will help with going up the middle and around the playground. NO stopping for charging at charge stations. You could charge by 240v when at home or at a CVP or similar.

I also like the Alternator idea Ron.

I was in a electric Taxi about 5 weeks ago in Canberra and the Jury is still out as if I liked it or not. Something didn't feel right, maybe that should be sound right.

keep Safe on the roads and out there.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Ron-D wrote:
Our car alternators charge our batteries,an electric motor spinning at high revs could it possibly drive its own alternator to charge its own battery?and be completely self sufficient in the future..

My DC clamp meter shows 238amps to start the engine for about a second. After 15 seconds it settles at 80amps charging.