Changing Halagen lights to LED

Berecroft · Newbie

Changing Halagen lights to LED

Yuglamron · Guru

I find that extremely strange as all the LED's I have bought for my MotorHome are classified as usable between 12 and 36 Volt DC. I have both 12 volt and 24 Volt in my MH as it's over 4.5 tonnes so a lot of the feeds are 24 Volt.

I'll be interested to hear what the electricians come up with.

Long Weekend · Guru

Like Yuglamron I find it strange that normal rated 12V LEDs would fail almost immediately. Our 2014 Sterling also had halogen lights throughout - two bed reading lights right beside our ears that you could feel the heat generated. I immediately replaced the halogens with 50cm led strips a year ago and have had no failures in the intervening time.

By the way, several of the halogen 'ball' lights in the Sterling showed signs of overheating with blackened bases when I took them out. I wonder whether any fires have been caused by overheating halogen lights?

Murray

dabbler · Guru

They may not be interchangeable without other changes. Halogen in a household environment (ie not automotive) are usually AC powered (even low voltage versions). LED bulbs are mostly DC devices and usually incorporate an AC/DC transformer when used in a household environment. LED found in strips and automotive cobs are lightweight, don't have extra electronics and expect a DC source. First basic question ... What type of halogen do you have now ?

erad · Guru

I assume that the failure occurs when running the lights from the 240V supply (there is a 12V power supply in the van. If this is the case, it could be that the LED lights do not pull enough power, and the voltage may be up around 18 to 20 Volts. If the power supply is not regulated well enough this can happen. Check the voltage at the lights when on 240 V - the 12V may be much higher than you think. If this is the case, you can reduce the voltage to the lights by inserting a resistor, but that defeats the purpose of using LED's in the first place - to use less power. You may need to use LED's which have a higher voltage rating.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Be careful if AC,240v. May have mixed voltages . Not only voltage but type ??

denmonkey · Senior Member

Is there a chance you're somehow sticking 12v bulbs into a 240v socket ?

T1 Terry · Guru

The other possibility is the 12v on mains power is actually AC and not DC voltage. The circuitry can handle AC for a short period before the diodes overheat and the rapidly fluctuating voltage (only seeing 50% of the 12vdc wave) destroys the voltage control section. I filament bulb doesn't care if the current supplied to it is AC or DC, it is really just a high resistance short circuit that makes the filament glow as it is just on the edge of burning out.

T1 Terry

madaboutled · Guru

Berecroft wrote:
we have just bought an adria 2011 with Halagen lights, both down lowlights and reading lights. My partner decided to change to LED as Halagen are to hot and use to much power when on 12 volt.
He changed all globes and most have burne out with in a couple of hours and one actually started smoking. He has tried both cheap and e pensive well known brands and the problem still persists.
He has read that the problem could be due to battery fluctuation and thinks that this could be happening when the battery is running at 13 volts.
How can we rectify the problem? Is there some sort of filter that keeps flow to 12 volts or are we barking up the wrong tree?
--------------------------------------------
Generally speaking the older type 12v LED's where strictly 12V and anything over 12.8v could cause them to burn out. The newer LED's are mostly multivolt with a range between 10v to 30v but there's still the older stuff being sold, and stuff that claims to be multivolt. So without knowing what you've tried everything below, sorry, but it is just speculation.
If you can post up some pictures of both the Leds you installed and the light fittings themselves we can then see what you are dealing with and may be able to give you suggestions. Some fittings are sometimes the blame, in that they'll work with incandescent globes but not so well with LED, it's rare but does happen. Seeing the fittings then suggestions can be put forward as to the best type of LED to fit the fitting.
Hope this helps Steve.

Berecroft · Newbie

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Would like to post a couple off photos but not sure how to as we are new to the group. My partner was very interested in Steves reply as he feels that some of the LEDs are inferior. Hes says that the current is DC as the fittings are marked as positive and negative. The halogen lights have a G4 fitting and the LED lights that burnt out were Green earth 1.2 w Cheers

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Click advance editor . Click down load files .

madaboutled · Guru

Berecroft wrote:
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Would like to post a couple off photos but not sure how to as we are new to the group. My partner was very interested in Steves reply as he feels that some of the LEDs are inferior. Hes says that the current is DC as the fittings are marked as positive and negative. The halogen lights have a G4 fitting and the LED lights that burnt out were Green earth 1.2 w Cheers

I googled those, they are 12v only, would probably work OK on a 12v regulated supply, but on a battery system they're going to get more power than they can handle.

Are the light fittings down-light type or reading lamps? Try this link to help identify them

Regards Steve.

Berecroft · Newbie

Thanks Stev that makes a lot of sense when I see that fully charged the battery is around 13.7V. I'll make sure that any Leds I buy over the range of voltage. Also thanks for the suggested led info site. Great stuff especially how to remove my awning light. Thanks everyone who commented on the led issue. Regards Sal

T1 Terry · Guru

Have a look through these www.dx.com/c/lights-lighting-14/lighting-bulbs-tubes-1800115/led-bulbs-tubes-5415 and also the down lights with either the single 3w LED or the 3 x 1w have worked well for me for around 10 yrs now at both 12v and 24v as they were suited to any DC voltage between 3vdc and 32vdc. I went through 6 pages of the link I provided but couldn't find them, so a search for downlights might narrow it down a bit

T1 Terry

Mamil · Senior Member

I regulate the voltage to all the LED lights in my Adria with small DC/DC converter modules. These are about the size of a matchbox, one per lighting circuit, and they cost less than $10 each on Ebay. The input can vary between 6-35 volts DC and they will always put out a constant 12V, or whatever voltage you set them to - it's adjustable. My problem wasn't the LEDs burning out but I just didn't like the way the lights varied in brightness as other DC loads and the charger varied the voltage in the van.

Here's one tucked away in the cupboard above the bed doing it's thing...

IMG_20190321_183443 (800x600).jpg

-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 21st of March 2019 11:23:20 PM

T1 Terry · Guru

Mamil wrote:
I regulate the voltage to all the LED lights in my Adria with small DC/DC converter modules. These are about the size of a matchbox, one per lighting circuit, and they cost less than $10 each on Ebay. The input can vary between 6-35 volts DC and they will always put out a constant 12V, or whatever voltage you set them to - it's adjustable. My problem wasn't the LEDs burning out but I just didn't like the way the lights varied in brightness as other DC loads and the charger varied the voltage in the van.
Here's one tucked away in the cupboard above the bed doing it's thing...

-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 21st of March 2019 11:23:20 PM

Do you have a link to the evil bay seller? Very interested if the unit can both boost and buck the voltage to supply a constant voltage

T1 Terry

Mamil · Senior Member

Hi Terry, yes buck and boost. So if the charger is pushing voltage up around 14 it'll put out 12v to the lights, and if a heavy load is pulling it down to 11v it still gives the lights 12v. Output voltage can be set by a small variostat between 1 to 35v. The brand of the ones I have is Tusotek, model TS-IPS-V02. There's a lot of sellers offering the same ones on eBay ranging from $7 - $12, take your pick (can't post a link at the moment as I'm on my mobile) They are rated at 5A although this depends on the voltage of course, but they do run hot at full rating, so rather than using one for all my lights I have one per lighting circuit so that brings the current down to less than one amp and they run nice and cool at this level so can be safely put inside wiring enclosures without additional ventilation. Having one per light also has the side benefit of being able to position them after the switch, so they are only on, and consuming power, when the that actual light is on. Have had them fitted for over a year now without any issues, although at that price I ordered a couple of spares in case and carry them with me.

T1 Terry · Guru

It is the flickering when the solar controller goes into PWM mode that annoys me the most, but the ripple that comes out of the inverter when under heavy load can be just as annoying. It only seems to effect the strip lights, but that is what was used to convert all the fluro lights in the Hino, (might have be incandescent bulbs actually) The roof lights are 24v (2 x 12v strips in series) so if I can either filter the 24v to a smooth supply or drop the 24v to 12v and run 2 strips in parallel, that should solve the problem. I wonder if those units could be used to step up the voltage from the low voltage output panels to supply 14v to charge a battery? Is it the output that is limited to 5 amps? or the inlet if it has to boost the voltage?

T1 Terry

-- Edited by T1 Terry on Friday 22nd of March 2019 03:33:05 PM

Mamil · Senior Member

In 6-35v max. 7A

Out 1-35V max 5A

Quote form seller, "Note:This module is the Regulator module, without Constant current function, not directly connected to the battery output(The output can not be connected to the battery to charge the battery), otherwise because of too much current,overload damage"

They are only a small unit with a small heatsink, and if you're going to be running anywhere near their max capacity I'd go for a larger one and add some forced ventilation like a fan.

Link to Ebay

-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 23rd of March 2019 11:36:39 AM