I am in favour of people who have not towed a van before doing a driver training course to get some training but the recent experience of a friend of ours makes some of these so called trainers an absolute joke.
She went to a course to have some training on their new van. The training consisted of a bit of training on how to reverse and 4 laps around a large warehouses carpark. No time spent in a real road scenario. What a rip off. As a former licensed driving instructor I am discusted
Unfortunately, I think a lot of "Training Courses" these days are more theory than actual practice.
Whilst not a qualified driving instructor, (although, I do have a Cert 4 in Training & Assessment), I've have helped a few friends in the past with some practical instruction on towing, based on my own experiences. Having owned a "few" vans and trailers in the past. (several trailers, smallest caravan 16 foot, largest 29 foot Tri Axle) one would think I have some practical experience.
Point I'm making is nothing beats Practical, hands on training in a variety of situations like, reversing, round-abouts, hills, tight/skinny roads, reversing on dirt roadways, congested traffic, car parks and the list goes on. You don't necessarily need a training course if you have someone experienced enough to show you the ropes. Unless of course, the powers to be introduce mandatory training.
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Steve, Di & Ziggy We named our Motorhome "Roadworx" because on the road works "On The Road Again" Ford Transit with 302 Windsor V8 conversion, C4 Auto, 9 Inch Ford Diff All Lighting L.E.D., 260 Amp/h AGM, 530 Watt Solar + Kipor Backup Gen.
Might be something to ponder for all those pushing for mandatory towing licenses for all who tow a caravan.
Iza
The biggest issue with a mandatory towing endorsement (it's not a licence you all ready have one) is this applicable across every trailer type, or will this be for caravans over a designated size/weight.
The implementation of such an endorsement throws up a lot more how's and where's which would require a very extensive time period maybe 5 - 10 years just to have a standardized syllabus and accreditated trainers.
I am in favour of people who have not towed a van before doing a driver training course to get some training but the recent experience of a friend of ours makes some of these so called trainers an absolute joke. She went to a course to have some training on their new van. The training consisted of a bit of training on how to reverse and 4 laps around a large warehouses carpark. No time spent in a real road scenario. What a rip off. As a former licensed driving instructor I am discusted
I must sum my reply up with an example.
At Blackhall Qld few years ago there was a commotion when two cars towing caravans arrived. It soon became apparent one male driver was competent reversing his caravan and his wife equally helpful in direction making. The driver of the second van had no idea and waited for the first driver to finish before that driver directed the other in reversing his caravan.. This second driver, poor fellow, had no idea which way to turn the steering wheel. Even when asked to stop he used the slider of the van electric brakes rather than just the foot brake. The first driver yelling out "why are you only using the van brakes, just use the car foot brake"
Now while this was comical as I cooked my snags it highlighted to me how some caravanners 'just don't get it'. But many do and are competent. there is a gulf in between. Just like there is when a similar driver buys a 4 wheels drive and heads for a muddy track without the equipment nor safety items let alone learning how to use them.
What I didn't like was the wife of the second driver shaking her head saying "he has no idea". Well why wasn't she driving? It isn't the fault of the naïve not having such basic knowledge...it is only their fault when they don't educate themselves.
Anyway, my point of this post is to say there are some that need such a course, albeit a better more comprehensive hands on driving course. But there are many that don't. We that have experience and "get it" pick up ideas and techniques from other vanners, from forums and friends. To be made to finish a course with such experience would be unnecessary.
If such a course existed then we experienced folk could point driver two in the right direction with a proper tutor rather than his mate with clutches of whatever hair he had left...in his grasp.
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Be nice... if I wanted my school teacher here I would have invited him...
Often seen the female passenger trying to help the male driver back the van. A common reply from the passenger - He's too stubborn to take any notice of anyone, let alone me.
One of the best ones we saw was a 30ish bloke drive a reasonable sized van. The spot to reverse into was fairly tight. He jumped out and his wife jumped in. She got the van in in one go without any help. It was a brilliant job by anyone. Everyone watching was absolutely gob-smacked, even more so when the wife jumped out as not everyone saw her jump in. People were just watching the tight spot the van was being backed into, not the driver. The hubby just shrugged his shoulders and said - She's was a farmer. This is normal for her.
I have always advocated for driving tow ed type courses but NOT mandatory ones . I would rather see a reduction in caravan insurance of a small percent to those that have done a course and can produce a certificate of competence.
In doing this there would be an incentive for those newbees to complete a course.
And yes I was a 4wd driving instructor for over 10 years.
However there are those that would do a course and still be inept just like many people that hold a license including heavy transport Drivers.
Now I duck for cover
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I was tired yesterday and I'm tired today betcha I'm retired tomorrow. he he.
I have always advocated for driving tow ed type courses but NOT mandatory ones . I would rather see a reduction in caravan insurance of a small percent to those that have done a course and can produce a certificate of competence.
In doing this there would be an incentive for those newbees to complete a course.
And yes I was a 4wd driving instructor for over 10 years.
However there are those that would do a course and still be inept just like many people that hold a license including heavy transport Drivers.
Now I duck for cover
Ha no need to duck. I for 1 agree,,, save on insurance as incentive on an ongoing basis,,,, yep we cant cover for inept EXCEPT don't pass them when doing courses,,,, HOWEVER this normally never happens as it costs business.
Look at pilot training currently,,, fail a few and you get no new students,,, hence pilot standards in downfall.
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Why is it so? Professor Julius Sumner Miller, a profound influence on my life, who explained science to us on TV in the 60's.
I am making enquiry now about to do a tow course and 4x4 with van course before we set off at the end of this year so mi interested in your views as some are very expensive and some are one on one or 4 to one ratio for instructors . Im just wondering if common sense would be enough.
I am making enquiry now about to do a tow course and 4x4 with van course before we set off at the end of this year so mi interested in your views as some are very expensive and some are one on one or 4 to one ratio for instructors . Im just wondering if common sense would be enough.
Im just wondering if common sense would be enough.
Apparently, it is. Plenty of people who have done courses go on the have catastrophic crashes. Plenty of people who have not done a course never have a serious crash, include me in that. Without access to crash investigation data that apportions causality to an identified deficit in skills training and testing, how could we ever know? Fake it and maybe you will make it seems to be just as effective as attending a course with a name suggesting training in towing a caravan.
If attendance at a training school or course was the magic bullet, no P plater who did 50% or more of their hours at a driving school would ever have a crash.
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Iza
Semi-permanent state of being Recreationally Outraged as a defence against boredom during lockdown.
Education is the key. IMO the 3 causes of rollovers and accidents are:
1) Speed
2) Tug/van weight ratio
3) Driver inexperience or lack of the required skill.
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 26th of February 2019 08:32:59 PM
Totally agree Montie but would add one more,
4) Unsafe design by manufacturer.
I have personally seen 2 vans that were in my opinion unsafe due to their design. One with 430kg on the ball with only water tanks filled and not overloaded with other goods. And another where the axles Dual were forward of center.
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I was tired yesterday and I'm tired today betcha I'm retired tomorrow. he he.
I am making enquiry now about to do a tow course and 4x4 with van course before we set off at the end of this year so mi interested in your views as some are very expensive and some are one on one or 4 to one ratio for instructors . Im just wondering if common sense would be enough.
Arguably, common sense should lead you to the decision as to whether you need some assistance (whether via a structured course or otherwise), or not.
Perhaps find a vacant block (or an industrial area car park after hours), and do some practice in some of the basics - reversing and what not. If you "can't get it", maybe some assistance is called for. And do read up on the various weight limits etc. (Preferably before buying the tug and van).
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It is better to have and not need, than to need and not have...
Education is the key. IMO the 3 causes of rollovers and accidents are:
1) Speed
2) Tug/van weight ratio
3) Driver inexperience or lack of the required skill.
Gday...
I think it would be similarly pertinent to assume that the main causes of ALL incidents on the road - whether car, car & caravan, truck, motorcycle, the lot - are exactly the same.......
Driving too quickly for the conditions (speed in itself is not a cause of accidents);
Driver inexperience or lack of required skill;
Driver inattention/distraction;
Driver fatigue;
Driver under the influence of substances;
quality of road surfaces and/or road infrastructure - eg signage etc.
So, whilst I agree with your 'causes' for caravanners, it also applies equally to ALL drivers on the motorway.
Unfortunately, the "cause of the accident" is not always the one doing it all correctly, but another road user failing in the instances listed above.
All drivers go through training/tuition/testing to obtain a licence - yet despite that there are far too any 'accidents'. Education is certainly a key - and more thorough training/tuition/testing of vehicle control and consequences would assist. As with so many things, it is a change of 'culture' that is the real key.
Cheers - stay well and travel safely - John
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
As a relatively new van puller, I can say that I devoured all of the information I could find online both written and in video form.
You do need to sort the chaff from the wheat though but after taking in so much , some common ideas start to appear and you can store them in the most likely to be true box.
I've also be fortunate enough to have work colleagues and friends who have vans to pick their brains.
Just because they're your mates doesn't always make them right though. So the same level of logical scrutiny.
I'm a bit inclined to do lots of research before I jump into something with possible risks involved but I'm painfully aware that others can be very blase about the whole thing.
A course would help those with no idea but won't fix the 'she'll be right mate' brigade.
I just do my best to pay it back to those who need help or are starting out.
