Must slow to 40km/h (25km/h in SA) or massive fine

Whenarewethere · Guru

Must slow to 40km/h (25km/h in SA) or massive fine

TheHeaths · Guru

I can say that the introduction of the rule in SA some time ago has not seen a marked increase in accidents around the stopped emergency service vehicles.

While there are some areas where it may be more problematic, ie coming over a rise and finding an incident, in a majority of cases, drivers can see the incident, and flashing lights, from some distance, and should be able to slow safely.

I think more problems are caused because many drivers drive to the vehicle directly in front of them, and do not have their eyes further down the road.

this is not a new law in SA, and has in fact been in place for quite some time.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Thursday 10th of January 2019 07:42:55 AM

Knight · Senior Member

Whenarewethere wrote:
Poorly advertised new laws in Victoria, New South Wales, Western Australia and South Australia now put your life and mine at risk each time we approach an emergency vehicle pulled over on the side of the road.
https://www.caradvice.com.au/715275/the-dangerous-road-rule-that-could-kill-you-these-holidays/?source=trending&slot=0
Failure to comply can result in a fine ranging from $272 to $777 in Victoria (no demerit points), $448 and three demerit points in New South Wales, $300 and three demerit points in Western Australia, while in South Australia if you exceed the limit youll cop a speeding fine for the difference between 25km/h and the speed you were driving.
On stretches of road where the limit is 110km/h, should you fail to comply, the fine could be $1036 with nine demerit points and loss of license for six months!

While near misses like mine are now commonplace, last week in New South Wales a police motorcycle officer was seriously injured during a traffic stop when a vehicle that slowed to pass the incident was smashed into by another vehicle that failed to slow down.
That resulted in the driver, who did the right thing and slowed to 40km/h, colliding with the stationary police officer after their vehicle was shunted into the police officers motorcycle.

This road rule is one that has the potential to not only seriously injure or kill an emergency services worker, but it has just as high a chance of killing you or I if we obey the rule.

The slow down law is understandable, motorists in the majority ignore controlled traffic zones and as many of us have experienced when we slow in accordance with the 80/60/40 signs many vehicles speed past, even as a single lane is approaching. For Highway Patrol Police and others such as Ambulance and Fire Brigade with red and blue lights (but also tow trucks and road service vehicles with orange lights) highways and other country roads can be very dangerous.

Many motorists still ignore the slow down to 40 kmh law in NSW. When I sight red and blue lights ahead I take my foot off the throttle and slow, braking as my vehicle closes in on the stopped vehicles at the side of the road. Vehicles behind mine swerve out and overtake and others just keep driving at or above the speed limit and ignore the 40 kmh law.

Understandable as the law and reason for it is, I believe that it has created a new hazard for all using the roadway and must be repealed.

However, spare a thought for road workers and emergency vehicle crews and please obey the slow down signs at work sites even if others remain ignorant.

Possum3 · Guru

Traffic management Rule in all States dictates that a warning must be placed 100M prior to a notice of speed reduction - I know this is impractical for a Solo vehicle prior to a Police/traffic stop but in the event of a multi vehicle emergency there should be a warning area set up as soon as practicable. Road works don't utilise Reds and Blues.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I agree with the slow down rule however, I mentioned in another thread ages ago that I came across a large truck stopped on the side of a major road that had 110kmh speed limit and as I came near to along side the truck there was a Police car with flashing lights stopped in front of truck. I was doing about 90kmh at that stage and no hope of slowing to 40kmh. I would like to think common sense came into it by the police in that situation. In most cases I have only seen Police cars behind vehicles they have stopped.

In some situations I think the 40kmh rule on 100kmh+ roads with duel lanes is a little over the top if just for a Police car that has stopped a vehicle for doing something wrong. Accidents etc, different story.

That all said, I have seen Police cars with scrolling neon sign on top between red and blue light saying "slow to 40kmh".

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.

barrie · Guru

2 days ago I did the right thing and slowed down only to get a hoon flashing his lights and belting his horn and he only just stopped from arse ending me. IT'S A STUPID LAW.

Whenarewethere · Guru

I heard about the rule on ABC Radio National some time ago, but to date I don't recall seeing any advertising on the subject. There should be evening news time advertising & not simply banging on with the same old speeding ad.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

The main problem with abiding by the rule is that when a police officer pulls a vehicle over for whatever infringement, they should either 'escort' the vehicle to an 'accessible' area on the roadside that allows the police officer to be both safe to move about while booking the driver and a fair distance of visibility for vehicular traffic on that piece of roadway.

The problem is exacerbated by the offender's and police officer's vehicles when they are still quite close to the road merge when stopped and traffic has limited time to react to the flashing 'emergency lights'.

The rule is a sensible rule (not sure about SAs 25kph though) to protect not only the police officers, but also the offender, from some clown running into them at 110kph - or whatever the speed limit is on the particular piece of road. Obviously, by corollary, and it applies to the safety of all other vehicles on the road at that time.

Solution? Dunno. Praps some education/awareness training of police personnel to be aware of their surroundings and to make "every effort" to ensure the safety of not only themselves but also the traffic on that road.

It isn't a realistic solution ... but ALL drivers should remain alert and aware of their surroundings and always drive at a speed and in a way that ensures their safety and the safety of others - will only occur when there are flocks of flying pigs. hmm

Jest sayin' cry

Cheers - John

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Too late Rocky. I got this pic of pigs flying just the other day mate.

PeterInSa · Guru

Re (The main problem with abiding by the rule is that when a police officer pulls a vehicle over for whatever infringement, they should either 'escort' the vehicle to an 'accessible' area on the roadside that allows the police officer to be both safe to move about while booking the driver and a fair distance of visibility for vehicular traffic on that piece of roadway.)

And in SA Not on the top of a 1Km incline/hill when heavy traffic is going 100Km an hour at dusk on a 3 lane up and 3 lane down Expressway with a concrete barrier separating the traffic flows and the police office pulls over the offender and both park on the tar next to the concrete barrier, I was in the closest lane to the barrier and slowed down, the car behind nearly rear end me, vehicles in the 2 outside lanes continued on at 100Km/hr.

I appreciate the SA police doing their job, but sometimes they could do better.

Peter

Desert Dweller · Guru

Probably a bit disrespectful & we understand that they do have to deal with lots of AH's but we've found that the average police officer is a very rude individual these days despite us being very polite.

We've been pulled over 8 times in the past 2 years, 5 negative breath tests, caravan/tug weight check (OK), boat trailer check (OK) & towing mirrors still on, 2kms from our caravan out in the bush (we were in the wrong.)

Every time we have found them to be lacking in manners, possess a bad attitude & on occasions looking to provoke a further confrontation.

Late last year we slowed down while passing a police car that had pulled someone over & almost had a truck run up our clacker!

Whenarewethere · Guru

Desert Dweller wrote:
Every time we have found them to be lacking in manners, possess a bad attitude & on occasions looking to provoke a further confrontation.

I have had the same experience. They are trying to fill quotas so they have to provoke to generate revenue for the government.

Possum3 · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
They are trying to fill quotas so they have to provoke to generate revenue for the government.

Police do not have quotas to fill - nor do the Police keep money raised by fines - it goes to State Revenue Offices. They have a job to do and most do it diligently, they may seem a "little over the top" but consider the Cop pulling you over has seen some horrible things caused by those speeding/drinking/arrogant/unlicenced/etc ordinary Joes.

Eaglemax · Guru

barrie wrote:
2 days ago I did the right thing and slowed down only to get a hoon flashing his lights and belting his horn and he only just stopped from arse ending me. IT'S A STUPID LAW.

It isnt stupid from the emergency services viewpoint. When they are working (fire and ambulance included) sometimes pulling dead or injured people from wrecks, they have drivers doing 110 past them ...and those drivers are rubber necking at the same time.

I live near the Hume hwy. Police have been killed while pulling over a motorist on that highway.

It has been poorly advertised though, agreed. Ive seen a traffic cop car with illuminated sign on the roof "40kph limit" but it is too small about 200mm high.

I've noticed in the last 10 years drivers breaking basic road rules. In Euroa for example in the main shopping street there was one continuous white line up the centre of the street. Many years ago the Vic Govt made it law that you cannot cross it but they did to grab an angle park on the opposite side. So they painted double lines. Everyone knows you should not cross double lines but they do, in fact about every 2-3 minutes it happens.

I think there is a case for more education. There is also a case of more education in the form of fines with more traffic police in marked cars and on foot catching the blatant law breakers.

Oh, and police dont have quotas. Source- a good friend

-- Edited by Eaglemax on Thursday 10th of January 2019 08:29:00 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
They are trying to fill quotas so they have to provoke to generate revenue for the government.
Police do not have quotas to fill - nor do the Police keep money raised by fines - it goes to State Revenue Offices. They have a job to do and most do it diligently, they may seem a "little over the top" but consider the Cop pulling you over has seen some horrible things caused by those speeding/drinking/arrogant/unlicenced/etc ordinary Joes.

The Victoria breathalyser quota exposed last year.

rockylizard · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
They are trying to fill quotas so they have to provoke (?) to generate revenue for the government.
Police do not have quotas to fill - nor do the Police keep money raised by fines - it goes to State Revenue Offices. They have a job to do and most do it diligently, they may seem a "little over the top" but consider the Cop pulling you over has seen some horrible things caused by those speeding/drinking/arrogant/unlicenced/etc ordinary Joes.

Gday...

I am aware of your background in law enforcement Ali El-Aziz Mohamed Gundawiathan and respect your knowledge and experience. I also assume, that in your time as a law enforcement officer, you were not participating in 'meeting quotas' and/or aware of any other officers who were required to meet quotas/benchmarks.

However, you may find this link of some interest.

https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/do-police-have-to-meet-arrest-quotas/

One might suggest the old question might apply - "What's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer? One's a slimy scum-sucking bottom-dwelling scavenger; the other is a fish "

[edit: and surely no-one genuinely thinks that the fines that are imposed by police officers are kept by them ... well not in Straya but definitely in Philippines.]

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 10th of January 2019 09:01:17 PM

TheHeaths · Guru

I find some comments on this subject border on paranoia.

Targets or quotas, call them what you will may or may not exist, but to suggest that Police Officers "provoke" people to make any such target is quite frankly ridiculous.

As with most walks of life, there are good and not so good Police Officers, I expect, but I would suspect that most of the provocative actions taking place in any encounter with Police come from the non uniformed side of the equation!

I have found during my lifer, in dealings with people from many walks of life, including Police, treating people the way you want them to treat you generally works wonders (much like interactions on this forum!).

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 11th of January 2019 01:47:33 AM

dieseltojo · Senior Member

TheHeaths wrote:
I find some comments on this subject border on paranoia.

Targets or quotas, call them what you will may or may not exist, but to suggest that Police Officers "provoke" people to make any such target is quite frankly ridiculous.

Hi TheHeaths,
I find that it is all about personal interactions we might have had.
I mean if they do not have quotas, why were they inflating the breath testing figures by manipulating the test machines? And approved it seems by watch commanders and Senior Sargent's as well. It made it seem as though they had very busy shifts. Thousand of such wrongful actions on the part of supposedly trusted members right......?

And not one cop was reprimanded with a penalty....Your words that targets are "Quite frankly ridiculous," might just be a bit off.

In fact what they achieved was an early night out on the roads. Instead of clocking off at say 11pm they were gone at 9 pm. After all the amount of testing numbers showed they had worked hard.... No one even mentions the overtime they were paid for their shift whilst at home in front of the telly. Just imagine the amount of fraudulent overtime.
Then Hypothetically, those same hard working policemen can stop on the side of the road to see how many do not slow down and create bookings. Just saying it ain't a perfect world. High morale ground grabbing is a bit of a trap.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 11th of January 2019 01:47:33 AM

-- Edited by dieseltojo on Friday 11th of January 2019 08:21:59 AM

miroku12g · Senior Member

Hmm,
I did hear that in Vic if an traffic officer cannot find a legal reason to book you, then they are to try to provoke an argument so as they can "make their Quota", agree with D.D. most but not all seem to be very disrespectful.
I think I heard this on Social Media from an ex Vic police officer.
Just saying.

Dave

Bulariver · Veteran Member

I like to slow down anyway so I can have a Captain Cook!

Eaglemax · Guru

My understanding is, the Vicpol dept get paid by TAC for how many breath tests they carry out. Thats open to fraud.
But as far as speeding etc, there is no quota. It's an old ongoing claim supported in the main by police haters.

-- Edited by Eaglemax on Friday 11th of January 2019 09:14:24 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

miroku12g wrote:
Hmm,
I did hear that in Vic if an traffic officer cannot find a legal reason to book you, then they are to try to provoke an argument so as they can "make their Quota", agree with D.D. most but not all seem to be very disrespectful.
I think I heard this on Social Media from an ex Vic police officer.
Just saying.

Dave

I had a company car years ago which was serviced fully for everything & was pulled over by two young officers. It seemed to be random, then breath test, zero alcohol, then they looked over the whole car, checked tyres etc & everything. I absolutely made sure I was polite to the nth degree, being a sales person that was not difficult! If they were not looking to create an insident I don't know what they were doing. Other half was not happy. Being German, & they do not mince words by any stretch of the imagination, she had never seen such a level of unprofessional service in her life.

That's my view of all police till the day they "accidentally" shoot me dead for no reason!

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 11th of January 2019 09:20:38 AM

Eaglemax · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
miroku12g wrote:
Hmm,
I did hear that in Vic if an traffic officer cannot find a legal reason to book you, then they are to try to provoke an argument so as they can "make their Quota", agree with D.D. most but not all seem to be very disrespectful.
I think I heard this on Social Media from an ex Vic police officer.
Just saying.

Dave
I had a company car years ago & was pulled over by two young officers. It seemed to be random, then breath test, zero alchoal, then they looked over the whole car, checked tyres etc. I absolutely made sure I was polite to the nth degree. If they were not looking to create an insident I don't know what they were doing. Other half was not happy. Being German she had never seen such a level of unprofessional service in her life.
That's my view of all police till the day they "accidentally" shoot me dead for no reason!

So I assume you didnt get booked?. Seems to me they were doing their job...making sure your car was roadworthy. Why wouldn't they do this?

If a car with bald tyres went out of control and slammed into your car and hurt your family you'd be ringing 000 "police please "..."yes officer look at his bald tyres, its his fault"

I have a different attitude. If I'm pinned for speeding or bald tyres, I take it on the chin and I dont condemn the officer because that officer might have the arduous task of one day knocking on my door to tell me a family member has died or he/she removes a violent criminal from the streets that keeps us safe.

Im always amused at police haters as to their stupid logic...lack there of. They have no idea what it would be like in that job

Bagmaker · Senior Member

Eaglemax wrote:

-snip
I've noticed in the last 10 years drivers breaking basic road rules. In Euroa for example in the main shopping street there was one continuous white line up the centre of the street. Many years ago the Vic Govt made it law that you cannot cross it but they did to grab an angle park on the opposite side. So they painted double lines. Everyone knows you should not cross double lines but they do, in fact about every 2-3 minutes it happens.
I think there is a case for more education. snip-

I think you can cross double lines (in some states) "if you are leaving the carriageway" but I stand to be corrected

-- Edited by Bagmaker on Friday 11th of January 2019 09:29:31 AM

rockylizard · Guru

Bagmaker wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:
-snip
I've noticed in the last 10 years drivers breaking basic road rules. In Euroa for example in the main shopping street there was one continuous white line up the centre of the street. Many years ago the Vic Govt made it law that you cannot cross it but they did to grab an angle park on the opposite side. So they painted double lines. Everyone knows you should not cross double lines but they do, in fact about every 2-3 minutes it happens.
I think there is a case for more education. snip-

I think you can cross double lines (in some states) "if you are leaving the carriageway" but I stand to be corrected

Gday...

A driver is permitted to cross a continuous single line or continuous double lines only when entering or leaving a driveway -

Single continuous line

Crossing a single continuous line

You can cross a single continuous centre line to enter or leave a road, including entering or leaving a property, and to safely pass bicycle riders.

You cannot cross a single continuous centre line to overtake or do a U-turn.

Single continuous centre line left of a broken line

Crossing a single continuous line left of a broken line

You can enter or leave a property or road by crossing a single continuous dividing line to the left of a broken line. You can also cross the line to pass a bicycle rider, provided it is safe to do so.

If you are on the same side of the road as the continuous line you cannot cross the line to overtake or do a U-turn.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/lines#centre

I understand this is applicable in all states - one of the very rare occasions when there is uniformity in road rules.

Cheers - John

Whenarewethere · Guru

Eaglemax wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
miroku12g wrote:
Hmm,
I did hear that in Vic if an traffic officer cannot find a legal reason to book you, then they are to try to provoke an argument so as they can "make their Quota", agree with D.D. most but not all seem to be very disrespectful.
I think I heard this on Social Media from an ex Vic police officer.
Just saying.

Dave
I had a company car years ago & was pulled over by two young officers. It seemed to be random, then breath test, zero alchoal, then they looked over the whole car, checked tyres etc. I absolutely made sure I was polite to the nth degree. If they were not looking to create an insident I don't know what they were doing. Other half was not happy. Being German she had never seen such a level of unprofessional service in her life.
That's my view of all police till the day they "accidentally" shoot me dead for no reason!
So I assume you didnt get booked?. Seems to me they were doing their job...making sure your car was roadworthy. Why wouldn't they do this?
If a car with bald tyres went out of control and slammed into your car and hurt your family you'd be ringing 000 "police please "..."yes officer look at his bald tyres, its his fault"
I have a different attitude. If I'm pinned for speeding or bald tyres, I take it on the chin and I dont condemn the officer because that officer might have the arduous task of one day knocking on my door to tell me a family member has died or he/she removes a violent criminal from the streets that keeps us safe.
Im always amused at police haters as to their stupid logic...lack there of. They have no idea what it would be like in that job

The company I worked for had quality assurance in those days & were fanatical about zero safety insidents. Also l recently had new tyres on the car.

I think there was a fly poo on the passenger side window!

I have had a cousin killed in a car accident hit in the side by another car so I do appreciate policing of the roads.

My original issue is almost total lack of advertising on the new road rules. Just did a back of the envelope poll with my neighbours, not one has heard of the new 40 km/h rule, worrying situation as these people are all pretty conscious & careful citizens.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 11th of January 2019 09:59:02 AM

Eaglemax · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
miroku12g wrote:
Hmm,
I did hear that in Vic if an traffic officer cannot find a legal reason to book you, then they are to try to provoke an argument so as they can "make their Quota", agree with D.D. most but not all seem to be very disrespectful.
I think I heard this on Social Media from an ex Vic police officer.
Just saying.

Dave
I had a company car years ago & was pulled over by two young officers. It seemed to be random, then breath test, zero alchoal, then they looked over the whole car, checked tyres etc. I absolutely made sure I was polite to the nth degree. If they were not looking to create an insident I don't know what they were doing. Other half was not happy. Being German she had never seen such a level of unprofessional service in her life.
That's my view of all police till the day they "accidentally" shoot me dead for no reason!
So I assume you didnt get booked?. Seems to me they were doing their job...making sure your car was roadworthy. Why wouldn't they do this?
If a car with bald tyres went out of control and slammed into your car and hurt your family you'd be ringing 000 "police please "..."yes officer look at his bald tyres, its his fault"
I have a different attitude. If I'm pinned for speeding or bald tyres, I take it on the chin and I dont condemn the officer because that officer might have the arduous task of one day knocking on my door to tell me a family member has died or he/she removes a violent criminal from the streets that keeps us safe.
Im always amused at police haters as to their stupid logic...lack there of. They have no idea what it would be like in that job
The company I worked for had quality assurance in those days & were fanatical about zero safety insidents. Also l recently had new tyres on the car.
I think there was a fly poo on the passenger side window!
I have had a cousin killed in a car accident hit in the side by another car so I do appreciate policing of the roads.
My original issue is almost total lack of advertising on the new road rules. Just did a back of the envelope poll with my neighbours, not one has heard of the new 40 km/h rule, worrying situation as these people are all pretty conscious & careful citizens.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 11th of January 2019 09:59:02 AM

While I agree there is lack of advertising if new ir changed laws, it is our responsibility to know them. Magistrates would say "ignorance is no excuse "

miroku12g · Senior Member

Agree Eaglemax,
no problem if you are either doing wrong or have something wrong ! my O.P. was more on the lines that IF they cannot find any issue, then provoke an argument so as they can make some type of infringement notice against you, therefore meeting their quota, unfortunately I cannot find where i originally read this.
Do I resept the law -- yes [sometimes]

Dave

Whenarewethere · Guru

Agree that we have to keep on top of all the road rule changes like we have to do with the numerous tax changes each year.

Eaglemax · Guru

Ive never been in the police force but in my line of work- security, ranger, control room operator, investigations, warder etc spanning my whole working life, plus my being a member of the public that copped the occasional fine, Ive only once had a crew (one car, 2 police members) treat me really unfairly.

To my knowledge if a traffic cop returned to his station with say 2 fines over an 8 hour period, questions would be asked. That is along the same lines as any other type of work...it doesnt mean its a quota system. Apart from TAC breath testing done by vicpol I'm not aware nor has any ebidence been shown to me, that a quota on speeding or traffic violations takes place. Happy to accept otherwise.

What we do have is police force mrmbers throughout the country trying to stop death and injury...an attitude missed by many.

Miroku, that would be rare imo. Cops trying to provoke arguements. The 1% bad guys are in every profession.

I just believe we should stand behind our police members more than pointing the finger.