I agree LLD. Very confusing and maybe misleading! Thx

Was in Esk CP about 18 months ago when a branch of the Jurgens owners club had a meet up. In the camp kitchen they were having discussions about their vans and being brutally honest about any faults/issues they had. The consensus was generally that between year models any issues that arose were addressed in the next model and fixed. There were three different years of one model and the slightly different layouts looked like they didn't change for the sake of change but to improve.

I had a good look and was impressed by their layouts and quality.. Of the fifteen or so vans it seemed most had gone for the Dmax for the tug. One guy had an F350 but turns out he had a trailer with a digger as his work vehicle so the 350 was a dual purpose item.

Looks like they were a good combo, the DMax and the Jurgens.

Good luck with whatever you end up with.

mgtlat wrote:

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Looking at the lightweight Jurgens range of caravans which are capable of being towed with a smaller SUV!

We have a BMW X3 30D Turbo Diesel. ATM 2400 Towball 200. Should be good to go on a 21ft?

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There seems to be a lot of misinformation above if I read your OP correctly. I take it that the weights you quote relate to the maximum weights of the van and not the tug. If that is so then your intended van is within the capability of the tug.

given that the generally accepted towball weight is 10% of the vans ATM,your 200kg towball capacity limits you to a 2000kg ATM van.

It appears that the person saying that did not check on the van you intend to purchase. The design of your van is similar to the European style. It does not have heavy items like a bumper bar mounted spare wheel and it has a small capacity boot. That means there is less weight at the ends to produce a large yaw producing force.  Because of that your van needs less ball weight to provide a reasonable level of stability. The ball weights quoted in the Lunagazer brochure are in the range of 125 to 145 kg. The loading in your van will possibly increase those ball weights but I doubt that you will reach the tugs 200 kg limit.

A friend of mine uses BMWs to tow his vans. Way back he had the smaller 4WD BMW towing a single axle Jayco. Currently he has an X5 towing a twin axle Jayco pop-top. He has been pleased with their performance.

Hi mgtlat, when we first started looking at vans I believe that we did it the wrong way round we went for the vans that were capable of being towed with our Kia Sorento and were severely limited in our range. At the time the Kia had a 2T maximum braked towing capacity so the Jurgens was definately one that we seriously considered. Problem was even the 21' Jurgens that we wanted still exceeded the capacity of our tow vehicle. We decided to take a different approach i.e. first find a van that we really wanted then if necessary we would upgrade our vehicle to suit. 

We ended up choosing a Retreat that we figured would come in around 2.7T loaded and bought a Pajero Sport to pull it - the Mitsi did the job but as Knight suggested with only the 2.4ltr turbo diesel it had to work pretty hard at times to do it. Earlier this year we reluctently replaced our Sport with something that had a bit more grunt and I believe at last we finally found a combination that works. Not making the right decision first up was a costly excercise so personally I would take the time in making sure that you actually get the van that you are completely happy with before deciding on what vehicle you will need to pull it. My other suggestion is to do your homework thoroughly, give yourself plenty of leeway with weights and don't just listen to the sales pitch they are going to tell you anything in order to sell a vehicle.. 

To give you an example on how hard the smaller diesels have to work - (since upgrading the difference has been especially noticeable with the 21' van from a standing start, on the long climbs and surprisingly when filling up at the servo) -

2.4ltr Pajero Sport/Triton - 430Nm max torque at 2500 RPM (avg. 18+ ltrs/100km)

3ltr V6 Diesel Grand Cherokee - 570Nm max torque at 2000 RPM. (avg, 16ltrs/100km)

If you decide to stick with the 21' Jurgens the MUX should be able to handle the load without a problem but if I was buying an Isuzu my preference would be it's stable mate the DMax with it's 500kg of extra towing capacity.

Good Luck

BB

When towing my Isuzu MU-X averages 8-9 kilometres per litre or 12.5 litres per 100 kilometres travelling at 95 kmh on the speedometer which is a real 88 kmh.

I took the advice of a diesel mechanic turned vehicle salesman when I purchased this vehicle and had a secondary diesel fuel filter installed as insurance agains dirty fuel in country areas.

Most tank refills I add Flashlube Diesel Reconditioner at the recommended amount.

I have the engine oil and filter changed every 10,000 kilometres at book service however, the book schedules oil changes for every 20,000 kilometres or every second service.

mgtlat wrote:

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Recommend eh Knight? Is it fully equipped inc a roobar? If so, can u give me overall length from towball to most external part of roobar? Cheers

-- Edited by mgtlat on Friday 21st of December 2018 02:23:08 PM

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 Definitely recommend Isuzu MU-X with over 50,000 kilometres of reliable service, and towing included about 20,000 kilometres (Jurgens serviced every 10,000 kms too).

The vehicle is very comfortable over long distances added comfort provided by AirHawk comfort seating advertised here above ^^^

No bullbat or nudge bar as I do not drive after the sun goes down and the extra weight is unnecessary. I have GME UHF Radio of the all in a handset type and a windscreen mounted GME antenna, also a windscreen mounted 3G/4G mobile phone antenna and hands-free kit with antenna link up when Samsung inserted into the cradle. Apart from Isuzu 3 tonne rated tow hitch and 12-pin plug there are no other accessories not standard equipment, and seat cushions.

My shed bays are 8 metres deep x 3 metres wide plus a caravan bay 4 metres wide so Jurgens could be longer and MU-X has plenty of room to spare. 

You could of course remove the tow hitch if necessary.

-- Edited by Knight on Friday 21st of December 2018 02:32:29 PM

Mick, do you really want to get rid of your BMW? I feel there is a lot of hogwash put forth about European diesel engines. For the last 22 years I have been towing with 2.5 litre engines. My Land Rovers were able to tow my 2 tonne vans, keeping up with the traffic OK. When I was in mountainous country I generally outperformed the Toyotas with their overly large ancient motors. The last one, a tD5 had 260,000 on the clock when I traded it. In hind site we should have kept it.  My current tug is a Nissan D40 (another European diesel) and it has close to 300,000 on the clock.

The Lunagazer is a reasonable size van that you should be able to live in for a few years. I suggest you purchase it and keep the BMW a little longer. Get your new tug when the BMW has had its days. Then sometime after you may be ready for your new van as the old one has aged. No sense in throwing your money away too quickly.

PeterD wrote:

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Mick, do you really want to get rid of your BMW? I feel there is a lot of hogwash put forth about European diesel engines. For the last 22 years I have been towing with 2.5 litre engines. My Land Rovers were able to tow my 2 tonne vans, keeping up with the traffic OK. When I was in mountainous country I generally outperformed the Toyotas with their overly large ancient motors. The last one, a tD5 had 260,000 on the clock when I traded it. In hind site we should have kept it.  My current tug is a Nissan D40 (another European diesel) and it has close to 300,000 on the clock.

The Lunagazer is a reasonable size van that you should be able to live in for a few years. I suggest you purchase it and keep the BMW a little longer. Get your new tug when the BMW has had its days. Then sometime after you may be ready for your new van as the old one has aged. No sense in throwing your money away too quickly.

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 Thanks Pete. I have to admit we are reluctant to sell the BMW and certainly take on board what you are suggesting. Maybe I should test the towing capabilities of the BMW before I decide to trade it in.

Mike will not be purchasing the BMW to use as a tug. He has it already. As he already has it, he should just as well give it a try. The towing capacity of his tug is 2400 kg, the van ATM os 2200 kg so he is well within the tow capacity. There will be little difference in his towing experience with his rig as there is with the large gin palaces that are often attached to the tugs you all are proposing.

I feel that as he already has a good vehicle that is rated to tow his intended van, he may as well get value out of it instead of throwing it away and spending heaps on a new tug. He has a nice vehicle but he will be suffering a very large drop in depreciation if he does change tugs.

I just looked at the specs for the BMW X3 and they are saying that the max braked towing weight is 2000kg, 100 kg max ball weight and 4510kg GCM. With those numbers mgtlat the lunagazer is too heavy for that car which is exactly as we found with our Kia Sorento. i reckon you have 2 choices 1) as Yobarr suggested play it safe and go for the Isuzu or 2) keep your beamer and buy a smaller van maybe the 18 skygazer. As I suggested earlier do your homework and give yourself plenty of leeway with weights - believe me it is a costly excecise when you get it wrong. 

Cheers

BB

Hi, I own a Jurgens Skygazer which is 18 feet or 5.5 metres in length and have owned it from new since 2015.

During the 3 years I have towed it all over Australia, not many places left to visit, averaging 50,000 kilometres a year and now towing with an Isuzu MU-X which was first registered in 2017 and has just had a 50,000 book service and part way to 60,000.

I am very happy with the Jurgens and Isuzu. The caravan tows comfortably and with AL-KO ESC remains steady even when large vehicles pass above the speed limit from the opposite direction. One annoying result occasionally is that the extension mirror folds the drivers side mirror into the parked position because of the turbulence. Usually the electric mirror control repositions the mirror when activated. Returning from Broome during May 2018 the driver's side caravan tyre failed, a blowout at my usual 95 on the speedo which is 88 road speed. No drama, loud bang then bumping as the tread peeled away flogging a hole into the inner mudguard and damaging the outer mudguard edges. Fortunately the side of the road was wide before the fencing and I pulled well off the highway to change the wheel.

The NRMA Insurance claim was approved quickly and also another for an Eagle strike, it was dining on road kill and slow to take off, and then veered into the path of my vehicle, and hit the leading edge of the awning, dropped down and was rotated by the caravan wheel passengers side damaging that outer mudguard, and leaving a mess on the bottom of the awning discovered when deployed later in the day at a caravan park.

The Jurgens remains in excellent condition/appearance inside and out after its travels. One complaint relates to the electrical system. While travelling north through Queensland heading to Cairns and then across to the Gulf country via Atherton, when I stopped overnight the plug from caravan to vehicle were "welded" together. I managed to seperate them but the refrigerator would no longer operate on 12 volts. An auto electrician replaced the plug but still no 12 volt operation. So I travelled with bag ice in containers inside the refrigerator after a night or nights on 240 volts.

Back home on the NSW mid north coast where my service centre has qualified auto electricians as well as mechanical and other facilities they discovered that the wiring was faulty as installed at the factory. Hard to believe but to start with the wiring from plug back to battery in the rear under the dinette seat was in several lengths joined. I found out later that Jurgens had a recall on refrigerator wiring and a possibility of fire resulting. But I was not sent a notice, and as I have a PO Box no way a notice was lost. No warranty compensation was forthcoming. The electricians also discovered that the wiring set up was for a petrol engine alternator not a diesel engine. I had no idea there was a difference but apparently the two have different generating outputs.

Unfortunately I could not buy the brands of tyres I wanted in Mt Isa after the blow out but had GT Radial LT tyres fitted on both sides and the China made brand spare remains as the spare, and that is a steel rim whereas the road tyres are on alloy rims.

Please read the owners manual and note the recommended jacking procedure. For my Skygazer single axle model the jacking point is at the rear end of the chassis. Jurgens caution that jacking elsewhere, under the axle for example, could result is chassis twisting damage. And do carry a couple of timber blocks to achieve more height that the Jurgens jack provides.

The MU-X has not needed any warranty work apart from a minor leaking power steering system fixed by the Isuzu dealer in Darwin during a Book Service. Original equipment Dunlop Grand Trek AT tyres still have good tread depth at 52,000 kilometres. The upgraded for Australian conditions (Outback) Isuzu truck engine with 3 Litre capacity is excellent, torque needed for towing with any caravan, but towing my caravan loaded to 1.7 tonnes and a bit leaves nothing to be desired. The 6-speed automatic transmission does the job well and even provides engine braking when required, just dab the accelerator and it shifts down. No need to use the manual gear change system. Having towed previously for decades and many different vehicles, and the new Jurgens first with a 2.3 litre diesel 6-speed manual SUV which had a 2.5 tonne rating for towing and slightly more ball loading than the Jurgens requires, I recommend MU-X. But with the SUV it towed well with one annoying design fault of a too low first gear for pulling a caravan from a standing start on a steep hillside. No such problem with MU-X.

Hope this helps.

Knight wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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PeterD wrote:

I feel there is a lot of hogwash put forth about European diesel engines. For the last 22 years I have been towing with 2.5 litre engines. My Land Rovers were able to tow my 2 tonne vans, keeping up with the traffic OK. When I was in mountainous country I generally outperformed the Toyotas with their overly large ancient motors. The last one, a tD5 had 260,000 on the clock when I traded it. In hind site we should have kept it.  My current tug is a Nissan D40 (another European diesel) and it has close to 300,000 on the clock.The Lunagazer is a reasonable size van that you should be able to live in for a few years. I suggest you purchase it and keep the BMW a little longer. 

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 I dont think that the engine,or its power, is the problem? You might like to refer to my first post on this topic,and that of Desert Dweller? Why take the risk of trying to make a boy do a mans job? Be safe,and ultimately better off.Do it once..DO IT WELL.Just buy the DMax.Cheers.

 Hi Peter.

The Land Rovers were sold before the tough Euro Standards on diesel emissions came into effect when vehicle manufacturers using common rail, turbo intercooler and other technology over stressed small capacity engines to produce equivalent power and torque to large capacity engines. The TD5 diesel engine has 5 cylinders, the highly stressed diesels have 4 cylinders.

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-- Edited by Knight on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 06:28:45 AM

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           And I have 8 cylinders,putting out a lazy 200kw and 650nm torque from 1200rpm....surely it is  one of the most           under stressed engines around? Furthermore,I concur with you 100% on the highly-stressed sewing machine engines that abound.....Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 07:43:49 AM

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 07:45:00 AM