Wholeheartedly agree Colin.

Comments supporting free camping seem to be few and far between on this forum, or is it just me.

Oh pray, please tell!

Unfortunately nothing is free.

Someone owns the land, and even if the owner does not expect any financial return, someone has to do maintenance, pay rates, insurances, and even collect donations, clean facilities, mow slash and spray and the list may go on.

In more remote country locations some of the small towns businesses do benefit from "free" camping but unfortunately many of these places close down eventually because they rely on campers leaving a donation which at times is a rare occurrence as most believe it should be "free" and there in lies the problem.
The town of Morven comes to mind where it has been reported that "free" campers just do not leave any donation for their accomodation on an overnite stopover and how much money do most of them REALLY spend in the town in that circumstance.

The "free" campers are really their own cause of the demise of a lot of these areas.

As you get closer to more heavily populated regions most councils would not consider providing a "free" area to those who don't want to pay because it is just not a sound financial decision and they generally have to answer to the ratepayer in the area. These ratepayers are the people that fund your "free" camping if the council
provides a facility.

I personally am not against free camping but from my observations very few people leave a donation, very few people can even bother to place rubbish in bins let alone being asked to take it away and dispose of correctly and many overstay the allocated time period all because of the fact that they consider it a privilege for a community to be graced by the campers presence.
There are thousands of truly "free" camp areas in remote Australia but these spots are where only a few genuine campers wish to spend time.

There are many cheaper options such as some farm stays, staying on a property in exchange for some work, etc than expecting the ratepayers of any community to pay for your accomodation.
I stayed for a period of time last year at a seaside community in north Qld and this town along with many others does not encourage "free"camping.
Many people try to buck the system and they are generally caught up with by the council officers.
I was amazed one afternoon when a guy with a huge van and a big Chevy S, cruised around and finally parked up in a parking area by the mouth of a local river.
What was more amazing was that it was the locals that dobbed him in to the council for illegal camping.
It was those locals that stated that they did not want their rates supporting free loaders....their words not mine.
The guy turned up into one of the many caravan parks in the area and proceeded to grizzle to the managers that he was not permitted to "free"camp. His claim was that he was only staying the night so what would it matter.

I am not a member but don't the CMCA and some other clubs / groups have areas where they offer cheaper stays than the average C/V park?
This may be an alternative to a caravan park stay that is funded by the user membership which is a much fairer alternative than expecting a ratepayer to support someone who is not even a paying member of their own community.

Another fact is that many who are paying customers in caravan parks and other facilities still spend money in the town so that argument is mute in many cases.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Monday 26th of November 2018 02:00:08 PM

Dicko wanted to write along the very same lines but now I don,t have to you,ve said it all and very well. But me thinks you might need to climb downunder something the "given right" movement will be out and about.

Agree Colin,

about 10 years ago I was on the ExploreOz web as a member and this was canvassed extensively on several related forums like the CMCA model ie strength in numbers when people have a common cause.

Caravanners went into a spin, couldn't agree on ANYTHING to form a cohesive group.

Like this forum, some nay sayers are there looking to attack anything posted, just to have their voice (freedom of opinion etc etc) to which they are entitled no questions asked.

Those seeking to do something positive, often simply give up.

If we could start a forum of positive thinkers,,,, if only??????

My 2 cents worth.

I'll duck my head now,,,,, nuff said lol

I see Free and cheap camping Australia has over 16,000 members maybe I should try on there ????

Dickodownunder wrote:

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...... paying customers in caravan parks and other facilities still spend money in the town so that argument is mute in many cases.

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 The problem is most to do with CP owners insisting that travellers spend the first $30/40/50/60 per day at their CP before the other businesses in town get a look in; hardly competitive.   CPs need a levy on their rates to pay for the preferential treatment they get when councils ban free camping.

Ratepayers already pay for lots of facilities, for example, public toilets and parks and kerbside pickup and mowing, so the cost of allocating a patch of hard stand for self contained travellers does not get above the noise in any council budget.    Most councils have the showgrounds going empty and unused for the majority of the year so $10 a night for the self contained seems a good deal for travellers and council alike.

Iza

Dickodownunder wrote:

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As you get closer to more heavily populated regions most councils would not consider providing a "free" area to those who don't want to pay because it is just not a sound financial decision and they generally have to answer to the ratepayer in the area. These ratepayers are the people that fund your "free" camping if the council provides a facility.

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Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them. Over the years of precinct committee meetings we got council to install another female toilet. There was a lot of complex issues due to the limited sewer mains limitations in the area, but we got one more toilet for the girls! Council has done numbers on tourists and basically the 1 in 6 visitors buys an icecream or similar. The toilets cost about $3 million a year to maintain. 

We don't have camping in the area but we provide a lot of services in other ways where visitors can do a lot of things for free if they park their car carefully.

Even free filtered tap water in a good number of locations.

I have seen a tandem van camped in a driver reviver site at Innisfail FNQ
has been there for 4 weeks. yes he may spend money in town but
there are signs no camping also 4 caravan parks in town no wonder they are
kicking up a stink. We mainly go to national parks $6 a night and I have seen
people sit in day use area and when they think the rangers wont come
they pick a site to camp. I have seen a few red faces when campers arrive with their pre paid
receipt for that camp site. If people start to abuse the system then the system will shut them down
my opinion
Mark

Colin Penrose wrote:

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I am not a freeloader and I do leave donations, clean up and support local businesses as many more of us do. We want choice. Someone suggested that I start the movement to approach appropriate bodies. Not tech savvy so how would I do that ???

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 Hi Collin,

May I suggest that you PM Ozzie_Traveller ( Phil Jones ) for a discussion and advice.  Phil was the instigator of the Freedom Camping web site & survey.

There's also info about the survey on these forums be it a year or 2 old.  Phil's survey contains factual information that was submitted to councils around the country.  In terms of a movement on "Freedom Camping" I think you'll find hundreds of not thousands would support it.  If such a movement was formed, I for one would support it and would put my hand up to get involved.

Regards Steve.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them. 

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 Did I read that right, Ha Ha. 

I'm not going to buy into this argument/conversation other than to state a few facts. Dickodownunder has stated most of my feelings.
Sure some people do make donations to "Free camps" but a lot don't. Likewise the rubbish situation and buying an icecream doesn't keep a business going.

A couple of years ago the C&MH magazine did a write up on the costs that governments both State & Local hit the caravan park owners with. They screw everyone who lives in or visits their towns. Sometimes I wonder how some parks can exist on the pittance they charge for power, especially when air conditioners, etc are run on some vans all day & night!
Yes we all know there are "flash" caravan parks (generally the Big4 brand) that cater for richer families for a holiday period but there are cheaper parks available that cater for the likes of us. We are members of Top & Kui Parks - the latter are generally cheaper yet still offer good facilities.

All of Qld is about to be hit by the state government over a Waste lLevy ($70 a ton) - to prevent rubbish from being sent from NSW into southern Qld. BUT they are going to get ALL councils in Qld to cough up that amount. I fail to see that trucks will be bringing "southern" rubbish to Townsville - but it doesn't matter. According to Madam Premier & her useless (to us) members, we ALL have to pay (the Socialist way?) - so our rates & your C-Pk fees will be going up again!

iana wrote:

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Whenarewethere wrote:

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Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them. 

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 Did I read that right, Ha Ha. 

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Council has been rebuilding one block for the last six months with wheelchair access. It has basically been rebuilt with more toilets. I did use this one once about 40 years ago, so I do occasionally use them!

They are cleaned daily, or should I say nightly as another block which we can see in the distance, the cleaners do this one about 4am so they are clean the next day.

Yes agree.........It would new a benefit to know if say this forum, which 100's of us visit and spend time to contribute to the forum, are partaking in any way to further our cause re our choice to Freedom Camping in and around our great country.

 

Jay&Dee

 

 

 

Shrek wrote:

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I too enjoy freedom camping when it is available. I also use caravan parks when it suits me.

I wlil relate a conversation that I had with a caravan park owner on the cassowary coast in Qld a few years ago. It went something like this. It was in the off season and the park was only 20% full. I suggested to the park owner that the park being only third full, perhaps they could attract more custom by offering grey nomads with a seniors card or pension card a reduced rate in the off season, spaces permitting. There is a large market of travelers on the road at any given time and a full park is preferable to an empty one.

I think that her reply says it all about caravan park attitudes. "" I am not in the business of providing free accommodation for anybody. I would rather close the park down first""" .

It's this attitude that puts me off van parks in general.

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 While I can understand your reasoning of having more people stay in the park, be it a cheaper rate, there is a fine line in many businesses regarding profit and loss.

Profit means that the owner is around next year and his / her family is fed and supported, loss means that wont be happening.

The very nature of this topic suggests by some that camps should be free and to expect a business to run at a loss to accomodate the wishes of a selfish minority is to put it simply and politely, very selfish.

Many coastal parks in North Qld do offer reduced rates in their quiet season and to expect the operators to drop this price even further is a tad unfair.

In the above case the owner was correct in her decision in as much that if she takes a booking  that costs her money then it really is cheaper to leave the site vacant.

My dear old Dad gave me some good advice when I was starting out in my first business.

His words were;

It is not so much what you earn but what you spend to earn it

This applies to all businesses, not only caravan parks.

I do apologise to the op for taking this a bit off topic but I do feel that some need to know that there is a cut of figure when a price is set in any business.