Tow ball weight.

NoelB · Veteran Member

Tow ball weight.

TheHeaths · Guru

Noel,

My thoughts are "Not really".

The tow ball weights you quote are probably at Tare, and will increase when you load the vans.

WDH as I understand it, do not remove weight from ball, they simply redistribute where it shows up. As such, even with a WDH (which Mazda may or may not approve anyway), you will still be over the allowable tow ball weight, unless you load all weight at the rear of the van, which creates stability issues.

I don't think there is a simple answer with this vehicle, apart from a much lower tow ball weight van.

Whenarewethere · Guru

On my Freelander if the GVW is decreased by 100kg the towball weight can be increased from 150kg to 250kg. Maybe ask Mazda if this is possible.

NoelB · Veteran Member

Good point. The max weight I can tow is 2 tonne but the poptops I'm looking at are 1500-1600kgs so maybe I can go a little over with the weight on the tow ball.

Hopefully Mazda will have someone who knows what they are talking about.

Cheers

Radar · Guru

NoelB wrote:
Hi, I drive a Mazda CX-9 and the specs say it tows 2 tonne and handles 100kg on the tow ball.
The problem is the 2 pop tops I am looking at buying are 108kg and 125kg on the tow ball.
Is there any way around this? I don't know much about weight distribution systems.
Cheers, Noel

CX9 specs I was just reading quotes 150 kgs on the towball, maybe your towbar may need to be updated.

I did have this happen with a Subaru Outback, we fitted a towbar just to tow a box trailer, then down the track brought a heavier camper trailer and needed a better rated tow bar.

Stretch60 · Senior Member

Same happened to mate with Pathfinder, came with the lessor of two possible bars. Only capable of towing box trailer. Just went back to Nissan and got the heavier rated bar.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Tow ball weight limitations may also be related to the lack of strength of what they are attached to.
Exceed the rating and you may well pull the back end out of the car.
Not much you can do about that except buy a more appropriate vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter

Desert Dweller · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Tow ball weight limitations may also be related to the lack of strength of what they are attached to.
Exceed the rating and you may well pull the back end out of the car.
Not much you can do about that except buy a more appropriate vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter

The superseded model of Nissan X-trail was rated at 2,000kg. Quite a few owners towing a caravan below that weight with a WDH fitted buckled the floor pan of their car. Nissan voided their warranty.

montie · Guru

NoelB wrote:
Hi, I drive a Mazda CX-9 and the specs say it tows 2 tonne and handles 100kg on the tow ball.
The problem is the 2 pop tops I am looking at buying are 108kg and 125kg on the tow ball.
Is there any way around this? I don't know much about weight distribution systems.
Cheers, Noel

Noel,

The simple answer is your measured loaded towball weight cannot exceed 100kg if that's the Mazda rating.

The plated van ball weights are measured at tare and will be much higher when you load the van.Ideally your measured ball download should be around 10% of the loaded van weight.

The solution is either a more suitable tow vehicle or a lighter van.

Whenarewethere · Guru

I have relatives in Europe with a caravan. Their down load is 75kg & they are towing 1500kg. It is staggering the size of what people are towing with smaller cars & small engines over there, & front wheel drive only!

100kg on the towball on Europe on their good quality roads probably is ok for camping in manicured caravan parks.

But with the state of our roads and even if we are not really driving off road, we need a far greater down load capacity to prevent damage.

Cars reviewed here with say 2000 kg towing & 100 kg towball weight is just simply wrong.

I hope enough of us still have enough common sense to get a car with plenty of towing capacity so you don't have to keep a spreadsheet for the position of every item in the caravan!

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Having spent 6 months touring Europe full time every year for 3 years, I suggest that it is the caravans that are built in this country that are "wrong". Over weight ancient technology. Structures do NOT need to be heavy to be strong. Nor do they need to be as expensive as they are here.
While we have hundreds on van manufacturers making a hand full of vans each every year, that won't change. Even the biggest manufacturer in Australia is tiny by European standards.
And off the main highways, the made roads in Europe are at least as bad as those in Australia. Try a few kms of cobbles.
Cheers,
Peter

iana · Guru

These weights you have quoted, were they in the vehicle user manual, or stamped on a compliance plate attached to the tow bar, the reason I ask is various tow bars have different ratings.
It would pay to read the owners manual re-towing, sometimes the manufacture stipulates conditions, i.e. in the Mitsi Magna the manual stipulates the use of a WDH, while in others they say not to use them.

montie · Guru

NoelB wrote:
Hi, I drive a Mazda CX-9 and the specs say it tows 2 tonne and handles 100kg on the tow ball.
The problem is the 2 pop tops I am looking at buying are 108kg and 125kg on the tow ball.
Is there any way around this? I don't know much about weight distribution systems.
Cheers, Noel

The CX9 2.5 litre is 100kg ball rating and the 3.7 litre is 150kg.

Desert Dweller · Guru

When we were in the UK we had sandwich panel caravans towed by light cars overtaking us in our hire car doing 80mph (130kph) on the motorways. confuse confuse

-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Friday 16th of November 2018 03:11:16 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

My last holiday over there spent 4 months travelling around. My relative in Germany drives a lot faster than that in a Touran! I was not happy in the car. He also did not seem to understand why we had to fill the car every 10 minutes!

My car uses twice the fuel at 135 compared to 95.

PeterD · Guru

Radar wrote:
NoelB wrote:
Hi, I drive a Mazda CX-9 and the specs say it tows 2 tonne and handles 100kg on the tow ball.
The problem is the 2 pop tops I am looking at buying are 108kg and 125kg on the tow ball.
CX9 specs I was just reading quotes 150 kgs on the towball, maybe your towbar may need to be updated.

Only the early ones (up to 07/2016) were 150 kg ball weight. The later ones are all 100 kg.

Bill B · Guru

For current model CX9 Mazda website states tow ball download maximum is 150 kgs when vehicle is fitted with a "Mazda Genuine Tow Kit"

Whenarewethere · Guru

I have gone through my handbook thoroughly. What I thought, was correct. I can up the weight to 250 kg but reduce the GVW by 100 kg. But for Australia I can put up to 350 kg, but the car still has to stay within the same GVW.

montie · Guru

Just to repeat....Australian Towing Mass Guide...

CX9....2.5litre........Ball Rating 100kg
3.7litre.........Ball Rating 150kg.

Bill B · Guru

montie wrote:

Just to repeat....Australian Towing Mass Guide...

CX9....2.5litre........Ball Rating 100kg

3.7litre.........Ball Rating 150kg.

Wouldn't the Mazda website be more authoritative than the Towing Mass Guide ?

montie · Guru

Bill B wrote:
montie wrote:

Just to repeat....Australian Towing Mass Guide...

CX9....2.5litre........Ball Rating 100kg

3.7litre.........Ball Rating 150kg.

Wouldn't the Mazda website be more authoritative than the Towing Mass Guide ?

Bill,

The information provided on the Guide is advisory only but is used as a reference by the Industry.

If the Mazda website provides different data then that will overide the info on ATMG.

I haven't checked the Mazda website.

PeterD · Guru

Bill B wrote:
montie wrote:
Just to repeat....Australian Towing Mass Guide...
CX9....2.5litre........Ball Rating 100kg

3.7litre.........Ball Rating 150kg.
Wouldn't the Mazda website be more authoritative than the Towing Mass Guide ?

Without a link to what you are referring to we don't know. Please provide the link so we can check you are seeing the correct info? Is the OP's model the same as what you are looking at on the net?

The towing guide is generally correct so has there been an upgrade since the last issue of the guide that Montie and I have in hand.

A more interesting question is what does the OPs handbook say and what is on the tow bar compliance plate. In his first posting he says the ball weight is 100 kg MAX.

-- Edited by PeterD on Friday 16th of November 2018 11:44:53 PM

Bill B · Guru

PeterD wrote:

Without a link to what you are referring to we don't know. Please provide the link so we can check you are seeing the correct info? I- Edited by PeterD on Friday 16th of November 2018 11:44:53 PM

Yes I've got my glasses on : https://www.mazda.com.au/cars/cx-9/specifications/?bodystyle=Large%20SUV&drivetrain=AWD&grade=Sport

Scroll down page and click on Performance.

Towing specs are the same on all models in both AWD & FWD.

montie · Guru

Bill,
The info on the Mazda website from your link would be for their current 2018 models.
Earlier models may still be different so reference to the handbook would be advisable.

The ATMG, whilst only a reference, is usually very accurate.

Bill B · Guru

montie wrote:

Bill,

The info on the Mazda website from your link would be for their current 2018 models.

Yes, that is what I said in my original post.

VandC · Member

Sorry to hear about what you're going through, it seems that they don't make cars like they used to. I had an issue on my 200 series Landcruiser, I had to upgrade my suspension to increase the Gross Vehicle Mass to tow a large caravan as the damn car had no capacity to carry all my goodies etc. I would speak to Paul at Pedders in Golden Grove he seems to be the full bottle on this, he fixed my issue and and now am legal.

The tow bar plate should show what you can carry, on my Amarok they changed the tow bar and increased the towing capacity from 3 to 3.5 tonne as the wrong tow bar was fitted on delivery!!

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi everyone,
This post certainly saves me from opening another. It's amazing what you find when you aren't really looking!!! I was removing some dump coverings out of the back of the car.

Our GU Patrol has been in our hands now for SIX YEARS & today I found a sign that I didn't realise it existed! It is the towing information - yes, I can tow 3.5T maximum BUT the interesting stuff as highlighted above & in posts earlier in the year is the TBM and certain vehicles having to have their loading reduced (I recall the Navara & Pajero falling foul). I recall Rockylizard locating a spreadsheet with the details.

According to the sign, if my TBM is 200kg, I can get away with the rated GVM
if my TBM is 250kg, I have to reduce the GVM by 150kg
if my TBM is 300kg, I have to reduce the GVM by 220kg
if my TBM is 350kg (the maximum) I have to reduce the GVM by 290kg

The ATM of my van is 1950kg, ball weight is shown (at tare, I assume) as 160kg, generally when we've been going away, it has been around 180-190kg - luckily!

So for me the moral of the story is
1. NEVER believe a salesman who says "Your car can tow that van - I wouldn't sell it to you if it couldn't".
2. Locate the towing info for the car - it has to be somewhere! I know it wasn't in the manual (went looking several times).
3. Do a LOT MORE homework re van/car specifications!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NoelB,
Friends of ours had a Subaru Outback & a Jayco Penguin Outback camper. The next time I saw them they had a Toyota Kluga. When I asked where the Suby was, they said it couldn't tow the Penguin as the TBM was too heavy.

I'd guess that the ratings Mazda give are a bit light - ok for taking rubbish to the dump in a 6x4 trailer but nothing else! I guess they are protecting the drive train of the car & your warranty.
It appears you too have some homework to do.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
Hi everyone,
This post certainly saves me from opening another. It's amazing what you find when you aren't really looking!!! I was removing some dump coverings out of the back of the car.

Our GU Patrol has been in our hands now for SIX YEARS & today I found a sign that I didn't realise it existed! It is the towing information - yes, I can tow 3.5T maximum BUT the interesting stuff as highlighted above & in posts earlier in the year is the TBM and certain vehicles having to have their loading reduced (I recall the Navara & Pajero falling foul). I recall Rockylizard locating a spreadsheet with the details.

According to the sign, if my TBM is 200kg, I can get away with the rated GVM
if my TBM is 250kg, I have to reduce the GVM by 150kg
if my TBM is 300kg, I have to reduce the GVM by 220kg
if my TBM is 350kg (the maximum) I have to reduce the GVM by 290kg

The ATM of my van is 1950kg, ball weight is shown (at tare, I assume) as 160kg, generally when we've been going away, it has been around 180-190kg - luckily!

So for me the moral of the story is
1. NEVER believe a salesman who says "Your car can tow that van - I wouldn't sell it to you if it couldn't".
2. Locate the towing info for the car - it has to be somewhere! I know it wasn't in the manual (went looking several times).
3. Do a LOT MORE homework re van/car specifications!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NoelB,
Friends of ours had a Subaru Outback & a Jayco Penguin Outback camper. The next time I saw them they had a Toyota Kluga. When I asked where the Suby was, they said it couldn't tow the Penguin as the TBM was too heavy.

I'd guess that the ratings Mazda give are a bit light - ok for taking rubbish to the dump in a 6x4 trailer but nothing else! I guess they are protecting the drive train of the car & your warranty.
It appears you too have some homework to do.

I can't dispute what the sign on your car is stating, but surely TB mass is counted in the car's payload, therefore only the remaining payload allowance reduces as the TB Mass increases, not the overall GVM?? Maybe I'm missing something...

TheHeaths · Guru

NoelB wrote:
Good point. The max weight I can tow is 2 tonne but the poptops I'm looking at are 1500-1600kgs so maybe I can go a little over with the weight on the tow ball.
Hopefully Mazda will have someone who knows what they are talking about.

Cheers

So Noel, it has been a week since you raised this.

Any word from Mazda about this. It would be interesting to hear if they felt there was any room for "going a little over" on the ball weight.

NoelB · Veteran Member

Thanks for all of the great conversation on this topic.
When I started it I had no idea so many people would chip in.
What I know is that no matter what I do, my Mazda CX9 won't go above 100kg on the tow ball so I'll wait til I buy my next car .....
..... or look at buying a light weight van.

Cheers to all!
Noel