Is there a chemist in the house? Purifying water.

Mike Harding · Guru

Is there a chemist in the house? Purifying water.

Yuglamron · Guru

Personally I filter all the water that I use in my Motor Home.

There are so many products around that filter water to make it safe to use and drink to enable you to not use chemicals.

I use Two stage filters. One is a particulate filter.5 Micron to take out the Crypto Spiridium and Giardia. Both found in running water and rainwater. Both Nasty and hard to diagnose unless specifically looking for them. The next is an activated Charcoal Filter, preferably the version coated with silver. Takes out taste and odours from the water.

I have always added Pure Magic Colloidal silver at the recommended dose to my drinking water tanks. Available from Camping and RV and Caravan accessory stores

I wouldn't add any of the bleach products to any water that contacts my skin or to drink. The propensity to overdose your water is high so I wouldn't go that route personally.

Lots of companies on EBay in Australia that sell filters and the cartridges very reasonably to filter your water.

Colloidal Silver at recommended levels is a well used treatment to kill the Dangerous eColi strain.

-- Edited by Yuglamron on Friday 6th of July 2018 01:31:07 PM

-- Edited by Yuglamron on Friday 6th of July 2018 03:48:53 PM

Mike Harding · Guru

Filters won't remove viruses - they need to be boiled or treated chemically.

Filters are only, practically, useful in a pumped system - drip feed is slow.

Bleach is fine for drinking water purification and is recommended by the WHO and others, CDC et al.

0.5 micron won't guarantee e-coli - they are 0.5u long. Not sure if the activated charcoal will?

Desert Dweller · Guru

Some idiot on another forum advised us to use Milton baby bottle sterilizer to kill any bacteria in our caravan drinking water tank.

It took 6 drains & refills of the tank to get rid of the disgusting taste. A complete dick head! Never again!

Beware of ''amateur experts''.

We use town water for drinking or occasionally rainwater tank water (nothing wrong with a few mozzie wrigglers, they add protein), bore or river water in relatively pristine locations for washing ourselves, our cloths & the dishes.

No filters or chemicals, never been sick after 45 years of bush camping.

We don't use river water down stream of locations that carry stock.

Mike Harding · Guru

DD: there is nothing wrong with Milton as a cleanser, if there were
babies wouldn't drink from bottles cleaned in it, as both mine did.
I suspect the issue was that you put too much in the tank.

The bottle of Safeway own brand "Milton" I have in front of me and
which I use for occasional cleaning of my 25L plastic water
containers has 1% chlorine so according to World Health Organisation
guidelines 0.5ml of Milton per litre of water is required for
purification of non turbid water to make it fit for human
consumption.

Appreciate: 0.5ml is two parts of bu.gger all - so you can't just
pour a bit in - it really does have to be measured and carefully and
that is not hard to do.

>We don't use river water down stream of locations that carry stock.

Very wise.

Cattle are emerging as major contributors to water table contamination
(although human excrement does a good job too) and I am now of a
mindset that I shall boil all drinking water from rivers as chlorine
cannot kill Cryptosporidium but boiling will - a rolling boil for 60
seconds below 500m elevation will kill just about everything.

However, this thread is about washing water and I think chlorine, in
general, is quite adequate for that.

the rocket · Guru

Not a fan of chemicals. We boil all drinking water from taps. never know whats in the rivers.

Desert Dweller · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
DD: there is nothing wrong with Milton as a cleanser, if there were
babies wouldn't drink from bottles cleaned in it, as both mine did.
I suspect the issue was that you put too much in the tank.

The bottle of Safeway own brand "Milton" I have in front of me and
which I use for occasional cleaning of my 25L plastic water
containers has 1% chlorine so according to World Health Organisation
guidelines 0.5ml of Milton per litre of water is required for
purification of non turbid water to make it fit for human
consumption.

Appreciate: 0.5ml is two parts of bu.gger all - so you can't just
pour a bit in - it really does have to be measured and carefully and
that is not hard to do.

>We don't use river water down stream of locations that carry stock.

Very wise.

Cattle are emerging as major contributors to water table contamination
(although human excrement does a good job too) and I am now of a
mindset that I shall boil all drinking water from rivers as chlorine
cannot kill Cryptosporidium but boiling will - a rolling boil for 60
seconds below 500m elevation will kill just about everything.

However, this thread is about washing water and I think chlorine, in
general, is quite adequate for that.

We have realized since that the ''nuff nuff'' on the other forum told us the wrong proportion of Milton to water ratio. Tasted like **** for months despite flushing. Yuck!

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I am no chemist, but while building it, I did research water treatment for our motorhome that is used mostly in remote areas with questionable water supply sources.
My conclusion after taking professional advise was to dose the water tanks (washing and drinking water) with sodium hypochlorite on a regular basis and then to filter immediately before use with 0.5 or 1um active carbon filter (after a 5um sediment filter).
Sodium hypochlorite naturally breaks down quite quickly (a few days), so dosing must be regular to maintain a sufficient chlorine level to keep the water protected, especially water that is suspect or kept at elevated temperatures where bug growth rates can be much higher. In any case the active carbon will remove any residual chlorine immediately prior to use.

We don't filter our water at the time of filling the tanks, just immediately prior to use. Our drinking water is better that we get at home.
99.9% of all reticulated town water in Australia is chlorinated, but that chlorine may have broken down before it gets to your tap.
We use liquid swimming pool chlorine (which is the same as household bleach, but usually about double the concentration and cheaper), but household bleach is a convenient source PROVIDED you use some without any other additives. The minimum addition rate for swimming pool chlorine (12g/L of free chlorine) is 5ml/100L of water. We tend to use about double that rate in normal circumstances. We have found that 4 times that rate becomes just noticeable as a chlorine smell in the shower (which has not been through a carbon filter).
If we are filling with suspect water, I will use much higher addition rates of sodium hypochlorite.

We are quite comfortable with filling tanks from virtually any source and the treatment that we use has been successful in providing good tasting safe water for many years (including in places like Turkey or Albania). We do avoid water with very high mineral content if possible (because that is not easily removed) and water which is cloudy (because the filters will get blocked much more rapidly), even though in both of those scenarios we will still produce water which is biologically safe to drink.

Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 6th of July 2018 04:50:29 PM

HandyWalter · Senior Member

This is what I use if water is suspect.3
www.biomagic.com.au/waterpure

Mike Harding · Guru

And, does anyone know anything about sodium hydroxide?

Jaahn · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
And, does anyone know anything about sodium hydroxide?

Yes that is commonly called caustic soda !! It is a strong alkali and I would not put it in my drinking water even in low concentrations. Just like I would not use a strong acid either.

Jaahn

vanman · Senior Member

Desert Dweller.
Do you not realise does not have a (Z) in it?

Chris

oldbloke · Guru

"To that end I bought 2L of Safeway bleach which has
active ingredients of sodium hypochlorite at 42g/L and sodium
hydroxide at 9g/L."

Yes, correct, it is caustic soda.

By the time it is diluted in the tank it will be 1/5 of bugger all. What you are doing is also my plan. Perhaps talk to your doctor or school chemistry teacher. I would be interested in the answer.

Note, just a thought. Do other brands also have caustic soda ?

-- Edited by oldbloke on Friday 6th of July 2018 09:25:23 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Note, just a thought. Do other brands also have caustic soda ?

Not necessarily, and I would definitely choose one that was ONLY sodium hypochlorite.

Cheers,

Peter

oldbloke · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Note, just a thought. Do other brands also have caustic soda ?
Not necessarily, and I would definitely choose one that was ONLY sodium hypochlorite.
Cheers,
Peter

i agree shop around

Kebbin · Guru

Hydrogen Peroxide is a good water purifier and oxides leaving no trace.

Mike Harding · Guru

Household bleach with sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide at
normal domestic bleach concentrations is fine for purifying water for
both drinking and washing:

http://www.esc.nsw.gov.au/council-services/water-waste-recycling/water-and-sewer/documents/Southern_Chemicals.pdf

Jaahn · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Household bleach with sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide at
normal domestic bleach concentrations is fine for purifying water for
both drinking and washing:

http://www.esc.nsw.gov.au/council-services/water-waste-recycling/water-and-sewer/documents/Southern_Chemicals.pdf

Hi Mike smile

My thoughts are to this statement "Sodium hydroxide is a commonly used alkali suitable for pH adjustment, water softening and corrosion control."

When it is added for this purpose the sodium hydroxide is 'used up' and then is not free in the water. The councils test their additives for appropriate residual quantities. Your choice of what you add to your water. It probably will not do any harm in small concentrations. hmm In fact the hard water commonly available some places might need it ??

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 7th of July 2018 01:21:53 PM

Mike Harding · Guru

Decision made.

What I'm going to do is use Milton baby bottle cleaner:
http://www.miltonbaby.com.au/our-products/antibacterial-solution-1l-2/

Materials Safety Data Sheet:
https://www.ebosonline.com.au/images/product/documents/Antibacterial%20Solution%202011%20-%20PC55123,%20PC55139.pdf

because its lower concentration of sodium hypochlorite makes it much
easier to accurately measure the required quantity.

For both washing and drinking water the concentration should be 0.5ml
per litre of water to be purified or 5ml of Milton per 10L bucket
which is probably a more practical measure.

To accurately measure 5ml I'll buy some 5ml syringes:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-x-5ml-Syringes-Slip-Tip-Disposable-Hypodermic-Syringe-Medical/111375731845?epid=1191498265&hash=item19ee82cc85:g:PosAAOxyNmZTk718

Your local chemist will probably sell you one for a few dollars.

NB. The above ratio of 5ml/10L assumes the water is, essentially,
clear if it's cloudy then more Milton is required - perhaps double.
That really is a trial and error method. If, after 30 minutes, the
water does not have a slight chlorine smell then you need more
Milton.

Get your bucket of water out of the river; inject 5ml of Milton,
whoosh it around a bit, leave it covered for one hour then drink or
shower.

Incidentally: check the label but there is little doubt "Home Brand"
Milton is just the same as real Milton and cheaper.

oldbloke · Guru

So our water supply is being sterilised using domestos. I don't have it with me but have a dosing rate written down somewhere using domestic. . I think it was about 10ml per 90ltr tank. Will look for it tomorrow. To measure just use one of these. Near enough.

oldbloke · Guru

You don't need much. I just checked and Aldi brand is 5%. Near enough. See link and the attached pdf

https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/emergency-disinfection-drinking-water

Izabarack · Guru

Consider the use of UV to treat water. A battery powered UV device is popular with bushwalkers who used to use Iodine based water treatments. Chemical based treatments of taint the water with an unpleasant taste. eBay search for UV devices finds lots for under $30 that you could drop into, for example, a 20 litre drum of filtered creek water.

Iza

Mike Harding · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
Consider the use of UV to treat water.

Good suggestion. UV is an excellent way to purify water but does require the water to be clear (filtered) for it to be effective which generally mine won't be. A battery UV tool would be ideal for travel in SE Asia et al where tap water cannot be trusted.

My plan is to boil all water intended for drinking/cooking and use chemical treatment on shower/washing water.

----

>You don't need much. I just checked and Aldi brand is 5%.

That's why I have decided to go with Milton; 5% sodium hypochlorite bleach requires only 2 drops (0.1ml) per litre of water which is hard to accurately measure whereas the 1% sodium hypochlorite Milton requires 0.5ml/L or 5ml per bucket which is rather easier to accurately measure.

So little is used that cost is not an issue and as these bleaches only have a life of six to twelve months you will probably end up throwing most of it away so there is no downside to the weaker solution.

Izabarack · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
UV is an excellent way to purify water but does require the water to be clear (filtered) for it to be effective which generally mine won't be.
My plan is to boil all water intended for drinking/cooking and use chemical treatment on shower/washing water.

A Trees and Elephant filter over a bucket, followed by addition of an anti-flocculant, is enough to clear water from the Cooper Creek. Bit of UV sterilisation and the Cooper Creek water is nice enough and palatable enough to drink.

Most rainwater tanks in NPs, for example, are clear enough but a dusting of bat poo and/or possum poo is not excluded from such sources. A SteriPEN does the business if the water is not going to be boiled for Tea/coffee/cooking.

I get the utility of using a splash of bleach in washing and shower water. I have two water tanks under the van have always been extra careful with what goes in one of them. Might just install a UV wand in the tank that is used when water quality is questionable.

Iza

Jaahn · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Household bleach with sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide at
normal domestic bleach concentrations is fine for purifying water for
both drinking and washing:

http://www.esc.nsw.gov.au/council-services/water-waste-recycling/water-and-sewer/documents/Southern_Chemicals.pdf

Hi smile

Perhaps this discussion has been productive for its purpose and has drawn some suitable conclusions. biggrin

Just for the sake of completeness, for those who may want another alternative I reference the 'life straw' technology. This was developed for third world countries and is available in Australia from camping shops and on-line etc I believe. I have not used it but would if it suited me sometimes. hmm

https://www.lifestraw.com/

https://www.lifestraw.com/our-story/

I have lived and worked in a couple of third world countries in past years and am aware of the precautions needed. But I consider Australia is so far better, that I do not use anything but common sense and caution normally. Usually do not use bought bottled water either. Bore water is the least pleasant out there but will keep you regular !!

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of July 2018 11:30:08 AM

-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of July 2018 11:32:33 AM

Mike Harding · Guru

As others in the future may use the information in this thread please
keep in mind that the methods discussed will deal, to a greater or
lesser extent, with viruses, bacteria and protozoans but they will
have no effect whatsoever upon chemicals in the water to be treated.
So if your water contains, say, arsenic or the run-off from
agricultural pesticides or fertilisers please appreciate that none of
the methods mentioned here for water purification will remove them.