Unfortunately, having been a safety professional for over 35 years, I knew about the safety issues as far back as 2010. Safety people all talk to each other, just as professionals from other walks of life do.
Also, when a company cannot keep safety people and continually advertise to fill vacancies caused by disgruntled safety people leaving, it is a very clear indicator of an inherent and endemic culture of unsafe work practices which are condoned and even (dare I say it) encouraged by top management.
Sad that four people had to die for this to be brought to light, though. It should never have happened.
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Dave (Nutgrass)
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Carpe Diem - Seize the day!
You never get a second chance at a first impression, so make the first a good one.
In general, safety for me is a calculated and reserved risk. For decades people have said bungee jumping is safe...until someone died. Once that memory has faded .."its safe" again.
Same with hot air ballooning. They grace the Melbourne skies early in the morning and fill the news at night having crashed...and crashed... I think it was 1987 when several died in NT. In Melbourne with all the hazards and limited control- how can they be safe? Then people declare parachuting safe. I dont think so.
Love rally cars? Fans stand inches away from out of control cars. I see it as stupid and of course its our tax paying dollars that ferry them to hospital. Topping it off is beach swimming. That video of Mick Fanning fending off a hungry shark lost my appetite for ocean swimming.
Cool, anyone can do as they please. I'll remain reserved. But there's no way I'd get on anything less safe than a ferris wheel
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Be nice... if I wanted my school teacher here I would have invited him...
In general, safety for me is a calculated and reserved risk. For decades people have said bungee jumping is safe...until someone died. Once that memory has faded .."its safe" again. Same with hot air ballooning. They grace the Melbourne skies early in the morning and fill the news at night having crashed...and crashed... I think it was 1987 when several died in NT. In Melbourne with all the hazards and limited control- how can they be safe? Then people declare parachuting safe. I dont think so. Love rally cars? Fans stand inches away from out of control cars. I see it as stupid and of course its our tax paying dollars that ferry them to hospital. Topping it off is beach swimming. That video of Mick Fanning fending off a hungry shark lost my appetite for ocean swimming. Cool, anyone can do as they please. I'll remain reserved. But there's no way I'd get on anything less safe than a ferris wheel
I suggest you add to your list driving a car on a road, more people are killed every day on the roads than what you have listed above.
I agree with Brickies, but Eaglemax has a good point too. Safety is a calculated risk. Having worked in a high risk industry, we identified the risks and established controls which were reviewed frequently to ensure their adequacy. What we are hearing from the inquest now is the result of an endemic culture of mismanagement because of cost cutting exercises.
When cost cutting has to be done, Safety is ALWAYS the first victim.
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Dave (Nutgrass)
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Carpe Diem - Seize the day!
You never get a second chance at a first impression, so make the first a good one.
Yep. Going to dreamworld has never interested me. Accidents will always happen on rides, somewhere, sometime. was thrown out of a chairoplane ride as a kid. Finished ride n everyone getting off except me n my safety clip played up. Noone noticed n ride started again , half way up it let go and i was thrown out and smashed into the safety fence. Thankfully only Winded and sore. Not happy jan. Never been on that again.
I've been on quite a few of the rides at Dreamworld over the years with our kids and then the grandkids and I reckon the rides are basically "fantastic". Most kids go absolutely ballistic when on rides like the big drop - they panic and scream but once they are back on Terra Firma they are turning cartwheels with the adrenalin.
Take kids to the local council park and enjoy a swing, a see-saw and maybe a round-a bout thing, then take then to the Gold Coast and to some of the attractions with "action" and see what they remember.
Bottom line is that all things considered, it still is very safe.
Hi Denis, I have frequently been at functions where I have had to inspect ride operators certifications and on a couple of occasions I have found that certifications were either out of date (as was the case with Dreamworld) or non existent. I am quite sure you would not want to use a ride which was not certified to be safe. They are required to have engineer certifications as well as WHSQ certification and both of these certifications were out of date on the Thunder Rapids ride. Further, the junior operator had been instructed to not use the E-Stop, or Emergency Stop. This is unacceptable and a clear breach of the Workplace Health and Safety Act (2011). My view of the outcomes we are seeing is that Dreamworld and the parent company (Ardent Leisure) have neglected their basic duty of care. My question to anyone following this thread is Would you, knowing that certifications were out of date and the junior operator was inadequately trained, use that ride under such circumstances? I know I would not, even if I did visit such places and go on these rides. I think you will find that the safety issue with the Thunder Rapids ride is only one of many at Dreamworld at that time. Finally, how many near misses did they have to have before they were prepared to deal with the issues? I guarantee there were many unreported hazards and near misses, because the statistics speak for themselves. Generally, peopletrust that the company has done the right thing and that operators are adequately trained. Also, how many emergency drills were carried out? NONE! That says it all.
Regards
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Wednesday 27th of June 2018 11:13:57 PM
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Thursday 28th of June 2018 10:10:54 AM
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Dave (Nutgrass)
________________________________________
Carpe Diem - Seize the day!
You never get a second chance at a first impression, so make the first a good one.
Hi Denis, I have frequently been at functions where I have had to inspect ride operators certifications and on a couple of occasions I have found that certifications were either out of date (as was the case with Dreamworld) or non existent. I am quite sure you would not want to use a ride which was not certified to be safe. They are required to have engineer certifications as well as WHSQ certification and both of these certifications were out of date on the Thunder Rapids ride. Further, the junior operator had been instructed to not use the E-Stop, or Emergency Stop. This is unacceptable and a clear breach of the Workplace Health and Safety Act (2011). My view of the outcomes we are seeing is that Dreamworld and the parent company (Ardent Leisure) have neglected their basic duty of care. My question to anyone following this thread is Would you, knowing that certifications were out of date and the junior operator was inadequately trained, use that ride under such circumstances? I know I would not, even if I did visit such places and go on these rides. I think you will find that the safety issue with the Thunder Rapids ride is only one of many at Dreamworld at that time. Finally, how many near misses did they have to have before they were prepared to deal with the issues? I guarantee there were many unreported hazards and near misses, because the statistics speak for themselves. Generally, peopletrust that the company has done the right thing and that operators are adequately trained. Also, how many emergency drills were carried out? NONE! That says it all.
Regards
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Wednesday 27th of June 2018 11:13:57 PM
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Thursday 28th of June 2018 10:10:54 AM
A few times I've looked at ride machinery and wondered if it is "legal" but as you say, one presumes that it is "legal" and trusts it to luck.
I guess it's all a calculated risk and unfortunately us humans like to take risks - that's how we progress with a few regressions on the way!
As I'm in my mid 70's I'm starting to avoid the rides that really stress the body especially my guts - last time on one of those twister devices I felt totally disorientated when it finished and made me realise I wasn't getting any younger.
I totally agree, Brickies. Denis, I am stressed even looking at these things and thinking about what could go wrong, but perhaps that is also the result of 35+ years in workplace safety. Would you have ever got me on one of those rides? Never! I refused even to go on a toboggan at Mt Hotham 18 years ago! I try to act my age and not my shoe size, so I do know what you are saying about realising you were not getting any younger. Trouble is, as we get older, our minds make commitments our bodies cant keep.
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Thursday 28th of June 2018 02:13:22 PM
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Dave (Nutgrass)
________________________________________
Carpe Diem - Seize the day!
You never get a second chance at a first impression, so make the first a good one.
Unfortunately we become complacent - such is the inevitable behaviour of humans.
When I first bought a chainsaw I was really careful, now I swing it around with barely a thought although I still caution others about their use - do as I say not as I do.
I really don't think there is a solution to this human (and other animal) trait of familiarity breeds contempt.
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"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"
Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland
Unfortunately, we can no longer trust companies to do the right thing. we only have to listen to what is coming out at the Banking Royal Commission to know that companies are now constantly engaging in criminal practices and the only way to put a stop to this is to sentence company directors to long gaol terms, but we know that this isn't going to happen as this corruption goes right to the top of the tree in our elected leaders.
Cheers
David
Trying to figure out what to say, after having worked 1/3 of my working life in aviation, and the other 2/3 in the commercial field, I would have to say that this all begins at the top, - top of Government, at the top of businesses. Know it all consultants charging exorbitant fees giving unrealistic advise, employees trying to meet their KPI's, keep costs down, reduce labor time etc.
Unfortunately, we can no longer trust companies to do the right thing. we only have to listen to what is coming out at the Banking Royal Commission to know that companies are now constantly engaging in criminal practices and the only way to put a stop to this is to sentence company directors to long gaol terms, but we know that this isn't going to happen as this corruption goes right to the top of the tree in our elected leaders. Cheers David
RD, you are 100% correct. Cheating = $$$$$$$$$$s. in profit. Big companies can never be trusted.
Apologies for bringing this thread up again but todays news that the CEO of Dreamworld (Craig Davidson) who was CEO when the accident happened was resigning and the galling comments from Ardent (the parent company) about his time as CEO:
"I would like to publicly acknowledge Craig Davidson and all members of the Dreamworld team for their commitment and efforts to ensure the safety of our guests and our employees and to thank the community for their understanding and support."
