Santa wrote:

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"Police and road regulators are also starting to target heavily-laden caravans being towed by one-tonne utes and SUVs which are not suitable, or outside their safe operating range, for the job."

About time.

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 Canopy, bull bar, spotlights, roof rack, tinny, beer fridge, tool kit, they all reduce the allowable weight that a utility can legally tow.

Caravan has full water tanks, extra batteries/solar panels, bicycles, extra jerry cans, outboard motor, generator & fuel.

A perfect recipe for off road driving, OFF ROAD into a ditch, one incident per day.

outlaw40 wrote:

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Really getting tired of the beatup the dual cab on this and other forums( mostly by the landcruiser brigade) maybe toyota have added a blackhole option extra that makes the weight vanish, contrary to popular belief most dual cab owner are able to add up.

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Gday...

Understand your sentiment Outlaw ... did you have a gander at this 'basic comparison' ? http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t64655896/gvmgcm-comparison-expanded/

Yep, utes have potential for more 'available' payload and that shows there. Those tables are not perfect, but give some idea of just how difficult it is to stay within GVM.

As Desert Dweller said earlier - "Canopy, bull bar, spotlights, roof rack, tinny, beer fridge, tool kit, they all reduce the allowable weight that a utility (or any vehicle) can legally tow. Caravan has full water tanks, extra batteries/solar panels, bicycles, extra jerry cans, outboard motor, generator & fuel." 

Dicko says it well too - "..........sales hype is the problem as many owners really do believe that their combination is legal."

As well, you are correct in your statement - ".........pay them 3 grand or thereabouts for some springs and shocks and a lovely blue plate and its magically transformed. The tow rating on any vehicle is worked out with a lot of other parameters in mind."

Unfortunately, there is very little informed education being done. Someone needs to tell, no INSIST -

• the manufacturers to completely review their sales brochures where they state the apparent capabilities of their vehicles;
• sales people to actually know the vehicles/vans they sell - and the potential use the vehicle will be subjected to. Not everyone uses the vehicle/van the same way;
• buyers give due diligence in their research on just what they will actually, and honestly, expect and do with the vehicle;
• van manufacturers to completely review their sales brochures and compliance plates where they state the supposed 'ratings' for EACH van. 

Perhaps only then will poor 'Joe Public" have a better chance than a snowball in hell in getting a vehicle and van that will genuinely make for a safe, legal combination.

It isn't all the fault of the manufacturers, because people are seeing how so many are towing that big 22ft van with a Landcruiser/Ranger/BT-50/Prado etc etc loaded to the hilt AND a tinny on the roof. GEEZ, if they can do that - it must be OK. Sadly, if you ask those who have their vehicles loaded to the hilt if they are overweight they either tell you to F**K orf or have no idea what the vehicle's GVM is and what their vehicle actually weighs.

Unfortunately, I don't think things will change until the "authorities" get those scales out and begin doing to vehicles/vans what they do to trucks. Only then when the owners of vehicles that have been mislead suffer inconvenience and financial distress and lodge the complaints may there be some change.

Cheers - John

outlaw40 wrote:

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SNIP~~~ no matter what the sales hype it still rests squarely on the shoulders of the driver to ensure everything is in order no matter what the salesman says ~~~SNIP

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Gday...

Again you speak truth Outlaw - the owner/driver of a combination IS legally responsible for ensuring the rig under their control is within the manufacturer's stated GVM/ATM/GCM.

However, thereby lies the whip in the tail 

When ads on TV, all media, the sales brochures, reinforced by the sales people ... AND then seeing the make/model they have chosen driving around with all the bits and bobs one can imagine loaded aboard - how can, and why should, the owner not believe they can load it up to the hilt, fit the bullbar and winch etc etc and then add a tinny to the roof and they will be perfectly OK.

The available information to allow the owner/driver of modern combinations to make an informed decision is at best misleading, difficult to comprehend and apply, and quite possibly bordering on outright lies.

As I said before - Unfortunately, I don't think things will change until the "authorities" get those scales out and begin doing to vehicles/vans what they do to trucks. Only then when the owners of vehicles that have been mislead suffer inconvenience and financial distress and lodge the complaints may there be some change.

Cheers - John

Gday...

Yep ... I wholeheartedly agree with ya Montie ... it definitely ain't rocket science.

So why is it there are so many vans that are over their ATM and vehicles at or above their GVM?

There is only a small percentage of vanners who are members of, or frequent, forums etc in comparison to the number of RVs on the road.

Hence, as demonstrated by a number of "road side education exercises' conducted at various places around Straya in the past 12 months, that have shown the majority of those "helped/educated" were overloaded in either the van/campertrailer or vehicle.... and sometimes both.

Those exercises also highlighted that the majority of those who were "helped/educated" had little to no knowledge of the weights/ratings of their vehicle/van/campertrailer and if they did know them - they had little idea of just what their vehicle and/or van actually weighed.

Cheers - John

Orockylizard wrote:

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Gday...

Yep ... I wholeheartedly agree with ya Montie ... it definitely ain't rocket science.

So why is it there are so many vans that are over their ATM and vehicles at or above their GVM?

There is only a small percentage of vanners who are members of, or frequent, forums etc in comparison to the number of RVs on the road.

Hence, as demonstrated by a number of "road side education exercises' conducted at various places around Straya in the past 12 months, that have shown the majority of those "helped/educated" were overloaded in either the van/campertrailer or vehicle.... and sometimes both.

Those exercises also highlighted that the majority of those who were "helped/educated" had little to no knowledge of the weights/ratings of their vehicle/van/campertrailer and if they did know them - they had little idea of just what their vehicle and/or van actually weighed.

Cheers - John

 

Now John you are taking a few liberties there....I think we need a much broader view of the big picture with supporting facts before we can draw conclusions that the majority are overloaded and under educated regarding relevant ratings.

I do not support that view based on the limited facts that are available.

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Desert Dweller wrote:

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montie wrote:

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Van and tug ratings are really not that hard to understand.
A simple view...ATM, dont load your unhitched van above that
GVM....don't load your tug above that
GCM....don't load your combination above that.

It's not rocket science....just common sense.

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 As posted previously, there is no need to get close to maximum load ratings.

It's really a matter of one up man ship dragging a massive caravan around.

How much room do two old wrinklies need?

Keeping up appearances.

We saw a bloke yesterday carefully wiping his tug & caravan over with a box of tissues. Madness!  

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 You just dont get it do you?

Not all people with vans live in a house most of the time and venture out on excursions when it suits.

Each persons requirements vary considerably and these requirements are often reflected in the size and type of RV in which they choose to travel.

It has nothing to do with keeping up appearances although you seemed fixated on that concept.

The room people need is personal and who are you to judge them as making a poor selection of van based on your heroic

conceptions of anothers travel requirements.

If someone chooses to clean his vehicle and van then who are you to judge his actions. He is not mad just because you dont agree with what he is doing.

You need to grow up and consider others as all your chest beating is not pleasant and in most cases has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I am sure each person who is purchasing or has purchased a van wont give a tinkers cuss what your one sided negative opinion is.

Hi 

To drag the conversation back from the personal insults !!

In my opinion there are two things to say about loading. Note I do not have a caravan but a MH. The first is what is legal and second what is a sensible loading for safety and easy travelling. The first one, legality seems to be foremost in peoples mind for various reasons. Mainly insurance by the comments on here. Also the thought of being pulled over and put off the road. Fair enough.  

The second, sensible loading, would be my first thought if I was to go on the road full time with a rig. I am not so young and not interested in hard work either, nor having any hassels on the road. So setting up a comfortable safe easy to handle rig would be my line of though while selecting the tug and the van. Having the two vehicles loaded to the last KG of the legal allowance or having to get a modification done to get another small increase to fit that extra genny or gas bottle or ??? seems just pushing your luck.  I never have believed in pushing things to the limit in my life choices so I doubt I will now. 

A twin cab ute seems a good choice from lots of reasons, but the problem seems to be the next choice. The vans are too big and the 'necessary stuff' to take seems excessive. The market has seen the trend and jumped on the bandwagon to sell to this cashed up market everything they think they want. Well nothing new there, so buyer beware.   So I do not choose to do that. Good luck to those who do, may your troubles be small ones. 

Jaahn 

Dickodownunder wrote:

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Jaahn,

The problem as it stands is that the consumers who purchase these vehicles are (falsely) lead to believe that they will be legal when towing their larger caravan and their required items.

SNIP~~~If a vehicle is advertised as being able to tow 3500kg then why would a consumer think any different unless he actually trolls through the myriad of varying conditions that change the towing capacity of each vehicle and worse still, the TBW.

As a start it would be simple for a manufacturer to include the maximum TBW in the vehicle GVM and reduce the towing capacity by that amount. Eg 3500 kg - 350kg = 3150kg towing capacity.

Not a full fix, but at least a start on the problem.~~~SNIP

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 Gday...

The Nissan Navara and the Patrol Y62 come to mind. This was posted recently in a roadtest/review of the Patrol -

At first glance, the Patrols towing specs look good: it has a 3500kg maximum towing capacity, of which a maximum 350kg can rest on the towball. The Patrol has a 750kg payload and so when loaded to its 3500kg maximum Gross Vehicle Mass, itll still be able to tow its full 3500kg capacity (so Gross Combined Mass is 7000kg).

The downside is the Nissan's 350kg maximum towball download becomes a 250kg maximum if you have loaded the Patrol to its 3500kg GVM. However, if you reduce payload in the Patrol by 70kg, (so its GVM is now 3430kg) maximum TBM is 300kg; reduce it by 100kg and TBM is 325kg. To use the maximum 350kg TBM, youll have to take 130kg out of the Patrol. As if towing weight legalities weren't complicated enough already.

The Patrol does not have trailer sway control as part of its stability suite.

Damned confusing. Why they just couldn't have said the vehicle is rated to tow 2,500Kg with a maximum TBW of 250Kg and leave it at that. NO - because the marketing department needs to show the vehicle is as "good" as a LC 200 ie 3,500Kg towing capability. It can only tow 3,500Kg if just the passengers, full fuel, and a handbag and wallet are in it at the time. 

Here's the thread if ya missed it first time - http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t64646056/tow-test-nissan-y62-patrol-2018/

[EDIT: of course it isn't rocket science  ]

Cheers - John

Jaahn wrote:

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Hi 

Just another thought. The people who have their rig loaded to within a KG of maximum ever get tempted to take an extra passenger. Perhaps one of the (big)kids or a couple of grandkids. What do you say to them, sorry you will have to run behind till we get there 

Last year our son had a break and we did a trip together in the MH. No problem as we had a seat and space for his tent. He thought it was better to sleep seperately. Good choice  We can also take the grandkids for a holiday too if we want. We even let them travel inside !!

Jaahn  

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 Hi Jaahn,

You are right and your example just goes to reinforce that each personal situation should be accurately assessed.

The accurate assessment is impossible if one is only relying on what the info on the pretty brochure said.

.....or what someone on a Forum said..........