Just curious if any member has had real experiences with the new 2016/2017 V8 Nissan Patrol for towing.
Whilst I appreciate that the V8 diesel Landcruiser is the standout towing machine for large vans up to 3.5 tonnes, I was just wondering about the advantages of the Nissan Patrol.
It is obvious that the diesel V8 Landcruiser has superior fuel consumption for towing heavy vans however it is also obvious that the Patrols are just as capable for towing and are considerably cheaper to buy and maintain.
I saw a new, top of the range Patrol the other day that was $40,000 cheaper than a Sahara and that started me thinking that this is an awful lot of fuel that you would have to spend to make up the difference in purchase price.
I also feel that the Patrol looks better and is obviously far better equipped than the Landcruiser, hence my question to owners and those who think they know what they are talking about.
Any comments re these vehicles only would be appreciated.
Regards.
David
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Nissan Patrol TIL and highly modified Retreat Fraser full offroad version
Just curious if any member has had real experiences with the new 2016/2017 V8 Nissan Patrol for towing.
Whilst I appreciate that the V8 diesel Landcruiser is the standout towing machine for large vans up to 3.5 tonnes, I was just wondering about the advantages of the Nissan Patrol.
It is obvious that the diesel V8 Landcruiser has superior fuel consumption for towing heavy vans however it is also obvious that the Patrols are just as capable for towing and are considerably cheaper to buy and maintain.
I saw a new, top of the range Patrol the other day that was $40,000 cheaper than a Sahara and that started me thinking that this is an awful lot of fuel that you would have to spend to make up the difference in purchase price.
I also feel that the Patrol looks better and is obviously far better equipped than the Landcruiser, hence my question to owners and those who think they know what they are talking about.
Any comments re these vehicles only would be appreciated.
I have never owned a V8 Nissan patrol but I do own a 200 series LC
Apart from the fuel consumption and other pros and cons between the two, I would also consider resale value if you feel you may only own one short to medium term. I am also not completely aware of the Nissans attributes but I would ask a question of is the Y62 Nissan equal to a Toyota Sahara or could you substitute a lesser model Toyota to get your comparison closer regarding "apples with apples"
I hope I havent overstepped the mark as far as my comments on your comparison is concerned.
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Sunday 24th of December 2017 04:12:25 PM
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"Seek the truth or bury you head in the sand, both require some digging"
Not an expert in any way as I have never owned either (more than happy with my 80 series)
Have just done some research on Redbook and found some interesting figures.
If you compare the top of the range in each of the Patrol and the Landcruiser, yes the cruiser may be up to $30k dearer, but if you then compare the resale value of each, the cruiser retains its value better. Yes the is a "toyota Tax" but this is on purchase and resale.
On a 2015 Landcruiser, new at $118k and now valued at $95k this represents a depreciation of 19%
On a 2015 Patrol, new at $87k and now valued at $55k, this represents a depreciation of 36%
Very interested in this discussion as I will be faced with this choice in a couple of years.
Not sure what you mean by gutless.
The L/C is 200 kw at 3600rpm and 650 nm at 2000rpm with a fuel economy of 9.6 l/100km
The Patrol is 298 kw at 5800rpm and 560 nm at 4000rpm with a fuel ecomomy of 14.4 l/100km.
To me this equates to the L/C being a better towing vehicle with a savings of about $7.50 per 100 km (with diesel at $1.50) which could add up to several thousand dollars over a few years of doing the big lap.
I have done a rough 'cost of ownership' on purchase price, trade-in price and fuel consumption over an ownership of 50,000Km - assuming 2-year ownership, given the numbers quoted in posts within this thread.
I am not completely 100% on servicing costs these days, but it was always cheaper to service a petrol vehicle compared to a diesel vehicle.
A petrol Patrol is definitely as economical a proposition as a diesel Landcruiser. I would think that a comparison between the petrol and diesel Landcruiser might show a similar story.
[EDIT: from towing reviews I have seen over the past 12 months, the Patrol V8 petrol has shown it is more than a competent tow vehicle]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 24th of December 2017 10:50:56 PM
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
Interesting set off figures Rockylizard, but you did not need to subtract the initial saving.
On your figures the operating cost of the Patrol is $42,142 and the L/C is $28952.
Hey Rocky your initial pricing according to Redbook for 2015 is wrong and what's with taking away the saving? All reviews I have read since this argument/comparison has been about have the Patrol at 16/19 lts/100 km, besides that a GXL would still win a review over the Patrol.
I think you will find the prices from Redbook are pretty close. The new value is as stated, but Rocky has written the used price as trade in whereas I looked them up and quoted the private sale price. Kebbin you are correct that Rocky should not have subtracted the $31000.
If you want to compare the GXL it makes little difference to the comparison. According to Redbook the 2015 GXL has devalued by $20000 over the 2 years. This would give an extra $3000 saving for the L/C. The fuel figures were those quoted in Redbook.
I think it is prudent to include the initial saving offsetting the cost of ownership when the suggested term was only over two years. It would be $31,000 you could have left invested - or not have had to borrow.
Conversely, if the vehicles were retained well beyond two years - then the cost of operating the LC200 = $123,000 Vs Patrol = $97,000 for the first two years. Perhaps I will extrapolate the exercise.
One needs to remove their bias from decisions from time to time and just look at the figures.
A petrol Patrol - and if the comparison was also done on the LC200 petrol Vs diesel LC200 - makes as, or more, economical a tow vehicle - OVER TIME.
Whether the diesel is that far superior a tow vehicle will remain the great debate - I think in some ways the arguments are subjective. However, given that, I prefer towing with a diesel and more importantly a diesel will outperform a petrol 4x4 in the bush - low range diesel in the High Country is unbeatable.
OH - "besides that a GXL would still win a review over the Patrol" ... Has anyone seen a review where a LC200 (or any Toyota) has not been the preferred choice of the reviewer. Strange that - are they THAT good. I doubt it. Reviewer bias? Advertising pressure?
Cheers - John
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
Well I do not see the prices both of you do the Landcruiser Sahara 2015 highest price $118,500, the Nissan Patrol Y62 Ti-L $114,490? The only bias that I have is filling the tank, never owned a Toyota did own a Datsun 720 good reliable diesel but a rust bucket.
-- Edited by Kebbin on Monday 25th of December 2017 09:46:11 AM
OK let's assume ownership extends to 10 years and assuming identical servicing costs, tyre replacement intervals, tyre costs etc etc etc. and no vehicle trade-in return reflected in operating costs.
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 25th of December 2017 10:51:00 AM
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
Good analysis. Job well done comparing figures, however, on the assumption that the Patrol would use the same amount of fuel as a Landcruiser petrol, the figures you are using
are a bit optimistic IMHO. On the Landcruiser forum, the few owners who have a petrol model are reporting figures around the 44l/100km fuel consumption.
Secondly, ULP is around $1.50+ this time of year vs diesel $1.35ish.
Larry
From what I have read/seen on various tests done on these two vehicles, when towing a heavy van there is very little between them in terms of fuel consumption, maybe slightly in favour of the Toyota and its less than a litre per 100 kms traveling in average conditions.
The difference is more marked when the vehicles are solo, between 3 and 4 litres per 100kms in the Landcruisers favor.
Given the increased service costs of the diesel it maybe cheaper to run the Patrol if you are mostly towing and want a big 4x4 wagon.
A friend of mine brought a brand new series 4 Y62 Patrol last month for 70k through a broker which is one hell of a lot cheaper than a Landcruiser 200 GXL which would be a reasonable comparison.
His son owns one as well and reports about 14ltrs per 100 kms around town, not driven for economy but not thrashed either.
Good analysis. Job well done comparing figures, however, on the assumption that the Patrol would use the same amount of fuel as a Landcruiser petrol, the figures you are using are a bit optimistic IMHO. On the Landcruiser forum, the few owners who have a petrol model are reporting figures around the 44l/100km fuel consumption. Secondly, ULP is around $1.50+ this time of year vs diesel $1.35ish. Larry
Gday...
One needs to realise that, for comparison only, fuel cost and ltrs/100Km are shown as a constant for the duration of the 10 year ownership in this example.
Unrealistic in the extreme I agree, as the infinitely varied conditions, and prices, one could/would encounter over a 10 year period are impossible to replicate in advance.
However, it is ONLY for comparison purposes so constants are required.
[EDIT: fuel consumption figures quoted in the example are taken from the specs provided on Redbook for combined urban/highway]
I don't doubt the veracity of the owner on the Landcruiser forum ........ but 44Ltr/100Km
I have yet to meet anyone who has experienced more than 27ltr/100Km towing with a petrol Landcruiser - and that is with a BIG van sitting on 100Kph constant ... or pushing uphills or strong headwinds.
Even heavy, low-range 4x4 work would not normally chew through it to that extent. That's about 290Km from both full tanks.
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 25th of December 2017 04:37:22 PM
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
O 'boy Macka will be reading the dialogue here and frothin at the bit , he'll be havin a sad xmas this year .
I have just bought a 200 series GX , love it to bits so far , have also driven an associates Nissan , its all personal taste and what the budget allows .
Personally I liked driving the LC over the nissan , performance they are both good . Fuel doesn't come into the equation as if you can afford either you can afford the fuel.
I reckon your either a nissan or a toyota aficionardo .
O 'boy Macka will be reading the dialogue here and frothin at the bit , he'll be havin a sad xmas this year .
I have just bought a 200 series GX , love it to bits so far , have also driven an associates Nissan , its all personal taste and what the budget allows .
Personally I liked driving the LC over the nissan , performance they are both good . Fuel doesn't come into the equation as if you can afford either you can afford the fuel.
I reckon your either a nissan or a toyota aficionardo .
Gday...
Unfortunately, I often do not express myself clearly.
Your bolded comment above is what my complicated gyrations were trying to show - that there is bugger-all between makes/models ... even between petrol and diesel.
It is all about personal preference - particularly one determinant that is impossible to quantify and measure - emotion. "I love it because I love it." or "I have always only had a XXXX." Often no matter how much "research" or "fact finding" one goes through, the ultimate decision will be made emotionally.
Often, if a comparison decrees one over another, it stirs the heart of those who support the 'slighted' one.
Such is life - and makes for amusing talk around that campfire.
[PS: to be perfectly frank, since owning my Landy for the past eight years I would never go near another make/model or even trade up to a new Landy.]
........ and this thread has gone way - probably my fault
Cheers - John
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
