The 4 types of waste water in – Caravan, 5th Wheeler, Motor Home:

JohnLG · Veteran Member

The 4 types of waste water in – Caravan, 5th Wheeler, Motor Home:

Bushpie · Guru

JohnLG wrot

Its our opinion that all 20 plus RV manufactures should be made to install holding tanks [Heavy & light grey combined plus a black] system capable of lasting a family at least a week, as is the direction in many counties.

Your comments please J

Why enforce a manufacturor to fit something that may not be needed.......if a van is purchased an the owner only has an interest in staying in caravan parks which have the grey water points provided why burdem them with an extra cost.

It should remain as an option for the purchaser to choose as required.

You also mention counties........are you in Aus or overseas, if overseas l ets leave their ideas there :)

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Hi James,

Thanks for the reply.

I guess where i was coming from that apparently the extra cost of a holding tank [for a small van it could be only 50 liters and a bigger van up to 200 liters] would be negligible in a production line scenario.

Considering that a non cassette toilet is cheaper and more range available and it would not be necessary to build the opening flap with hinges and lock - the plumbing is much the same.

We have a neighbor who purchased a van that came standard with a TV & Microwave, neither of wheh he uses - but he realizes that the next person he sells to might appreciate them and he would be right.

It then gives the consumer the choice to still use an external cassette/dolly or dump directly when a dump point is available, either at the park site if allowed, on the way in our out of a park, at the council site, at home if ones installed etc

Happy Easter
John in Aust now on the road 400 + nights consecutive

Cupie · Guru

JohnLG wrote:
Hi James,

Thanks for the reply.

I guess where i was coming from that apparently the extra cost of a holding tank [for a small van it could be only 50 liters and a bigger van up to 200 liters] would be negligible in a production line scenario.

Considering that a non cassette toilet is cheaper and more range available and it would not be necessary to build the opening flap with hinges and lock - the plumbing is much the same.

We have a neighbor who purchased a van that came standard with a TV & Microwave, neither of wheh he uses - but he realizes that the next person he sells to might appreciate them and he would be right.

It then gives the consumer the choice to still use an external cassette/dolly or dump directly when a dump point is available, either at the park site if allowed, on the way in our out of a park, at the council site, at home if ones installed etc

Happy Easter
John in Aust now on the road 400 + nights consecutive

200L = 200Kg!!!!!

Weight is always an issue with caravans & adding the extra 175Kg (subtract 15Kg for a cassette toilet) would require an extensive & expensive redesign not to mention GVM/GTM issues with the already challenged current generation of tugs.

It would be impractical to reserve 175/200Kg of the (common) 400Kg allowance for this purpose.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

I fully understand that many travellers encounter sites where they spend the night - or longer - that have varying restrictions on discharge of grey water.

However, I am a full-time traveller and have am now entering my ninth year 'on the road'.

I am either extremely fortunate or don't camp/travel in the same areas as what appears to be the majority of 'travellers'.

I have yet needed to have a grey water tank or to contain any discharge - obviously I have seen notations in Camps book etc where "self-contained vehicles only" apply. I simply have not had the need to stop at those sites - there are always others without such restrictions nearby.

I sometimes stay in showgrounds and van parks - and none of those I have stayed at have had restrictions on grey water discharge. Certainly, it is common for a sullage point to be provided so that grey water is disposed of in their system. As I am predominantly inland, small towns, small van parks, I find they direct that grey water is on their trees or grass - it is almost the only water they get.

Therefore, I feel the inclusion of grey water tanks in a caravan should be offered as an option not as a mandatory fitting as it is something that will quite probably get limited use.

I can concede that the restrictions on grey water have the potential to be more widespread - but I doubt it will be so restrictive that tanks fitted to vans will be compulsory.

Cheers - John

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Hi.....{Cupi}

Thanks for the reply........you are correct but in practical terms one would not travel very far with full "Heavy & LIght" Grey plus "black" water - get rid of it as soon as possible.

Di you know the new breed of vans that have been developed by the likes of Jaco [world head office] have greatly reduced the weight and therefor the need for bigger tugs.

In our current model on release it was noted that it was 1 ton less than previous for the same size and options

We will get there :)

Happy Easter

John on the river

PS Jayco is owned worldwide by Thor Industries who also own/make over 35 other makes of caravans including Airstream, Kingstone, Highland, etc etc - amazing factories nearly as big as Boeing if put together

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Hi John

You are truly doing Aust a big service, they should pay you from the coffers of parks and gardens for a job well done........keep watering LOL

Happy Easter

John

rockylizard · Guru

JohnLG wrote:
Hi John
You are truly doing Aust a big service, they should pay you from the coffers of parks and gardens for a job well done........keep watering LOL
Happy Easter
John

Gday...

I think you might have missed my point.

I do see the inclusion of grey water tanks are ultimately, and quite potentially, going to be part of new vans.

However, whilst that may be the case, there are still 1000s of actual camps that are unlikely to introduce grey water restrictions.

Perhaps these two "camps" give an indication of what I mean.

I firmly believe using rest areas (foolishly called camps) such as this will inevitably cause them to become available to "self-contained only' vehicles ...
cry they are quite an abomination really hmm and probably should just be closed and returned to the local populace's enjoyment.

Prefer 03.jpg

However, places where one can actually 'camp' will remain without such restrictions, if not forever, then for many decades yet ...

Prefer 05.jpg

Cheers - John

Desert Dweller · Guru

Water means weight. We have a single tank underneath our caravan for drinking water. If we fill it above half capacity we're over our legal 1580kg maximum.

JohnLG · Veteran Member

HI Keith,

Yes correct, you sometimes will need a full tank of water if your off the grid for some time.

In the US there has been a big push for lighter vans so they can carry water etc and still use smaller tugs

This will happen in Aust down the track [as we followed bobby sox in the 50's LOL]

Cheers John

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Yes John, i got your message, best to just make use of the camps available now and enjoy.

The big looming problem i see is Heavy Grey water discharge, most councils wont allow it anywhere except in a sewer - light grey is ok but even then it must be filtered before discharge [not enforced much as yet] ...but to be sure big brother is watching

Cheers JOhn

rockylizard · Guru

JohnLG wrote:
Hi.....{Cupi}
Thanks for the reply........you are correct but in practical terms one would not travel very far with full "Heavy & LIght" Grey plus "black" water - get rid of it as soon as possible.
Di you know the new breed of vans that have been developed by the likes of Jaco [world head office] have greatly reduced the weight and therefor the need for bigger tugs.
In our current model on release it was noted that it was 1 ton less than previous for the same size and options
We will get there :)
Happy Easter
John on the river
PS Jayco is owned worldwide by Thor Industries who also own/make over 35 other makes of caravans including Airstream, Kingstone, Highland, etc etc - amazing factories nearly as big as Boeing if put together

Gday...

No wonder you have a soft spot for Jayco

http://go4us.blogspot.com.au/

John Green 01.JPG

Cheers - John

TheHeaths · Guru

John,

Jayco Australia is privately owned still as far as I know.

Gerry Ryan is the owner, and has been since its inception in the late 1970's I believe.

rockylizard · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
John,

Jayco Australia is privately owned still as far as I know.

Gerry Ryan is the owner, and has been since its inception in the late 1970's I believe.

Gday...

Thor bought Jayco in June 2016 for $576Mil ... however, I doubt that was JAYCO AUSTRALIA ... rather the USA Jayco.

Thor 02.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayco,_Inc

Thor 03.JPG

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 15th of April 2017 01:55:45 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Gee Rocky, any wonder Thor made another movie mate, he needed to build up the bank a/c again.

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Ha ha .yes correct again........its like a franchise i guess.....see the Thor timeline attached, very interesting, some of there makes are iconic.

Its also interesting that they started with Airstream and soon after listed the company......up & up from there

Cheers Easter Egg Eaters

Kebbin · Guru

The thing that gets up my nose is campers that camp as close to rivers, lakes etc as they can and discharge the grey water on the spot ( like the inconsiderate long term campers at Greens), I think you will find that, you should be at lest 50 meters back from any watercourse if you wish to discharge grey water on the ground in such places.

-- Edited by Kebbin on Saturday 15th of April 2017 05:56:40 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I'm one of those 'long term' campers but no way am I what you call "inconsiderate". I DO NOT have a grey water hose out and empty my grey water by hand in a bucket and take to a tree to empty. Not near the water edge.
If you want to be so smart what about all the camp fires at water edge and ashes washed into lake during strong winds. You made no mention of that.

I am a very considerate camper.

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.

Kebbin · Guru

You do read like a very considerate man Dougee, but I have seen it all over besides Greens, so don't take it personal, the camp spots along the Murray and Murrumbidgee also.

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Re the Jayco sale to Thor

The attached is really informative for those who like to know how they paid for it.

$350 mill deposit and $250 mill [approx] out of 3 years Jayco sales profit

Wouldn't you like a company like that.......and every Friday pick a different caravan for the weekend :)

Cheers

Desert Dweller · Guru

Lets face it light duty Euro type caravans will always be in the minority in Australia, with good reason. Most people don't give two hoots about where their water discharges.

You're trying to do the right thing Dougwe but eventually everything on the sloping shore around the lake ends up in it.

-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Saturday 15th of April 2017 07:24:15 PM

RobandFlip · Senior Member

Hi John,
Your first waste water comment about rain run off is a bit broad because if you are camping out in the bush, rain run off is a valuable source of fresh water. There are devices on the market to assist with capturing rain water to top up your tank/s when not parked next to the curb where water runs down the gutter. We live 5 kms from the Murray River, our rain run off all ends up in the river eventually, so grey water disposal next to a water course will also end up in the watercourse, filtered through the ground's natural filtering system. However it should not be dumped adjacent to the watercourse, but at a distance.

Caravan parks insist black water from cassette toilets be emptied into the larger dump point and not standard toilets because (we actually saw this happen) sometimes contents will block the system in a conventional toilet because believe me, not all people expensively treat their black water. We carry a spare cassette as they are compact and easy to transport once full. There is now an option for people to install a composting toilet in your van/motorhome which can last for weeks before requiring attention. Best option after a cassette that I would consider.

Grey water tanks are becoming a necessity more and more as councils and park rangers are becoming more vigilant with the never ending rules. These tanks do not add extra water weight as they are empty until redistribution of water (that becomes waste) from a water tank. Installation placement under the van needs consideration to ensure the waste water that is shifted from one tank to the grey tank does not interfere with the overall weight distribution throughout the van. A 200 litre black water tank is just not possible because of weight limits.

If everyone is as considerate (and should be) when camping as is Dougwe, our countryside would be pristine and the waterways not under direct threat from contaminants. I guess it comes down to the respect for our environment which should be greater than that of our personal wants.
cheers,
Robyn

JohnLG · Veteran Member

HI Robyn,

Thanks for your input.

You are of course correct.

The fresh water turns into heavy & light grey water and if let drain into the holding tank weighs the same.

There is some places as you would know [show grounds etc] where you cant discharge anything, so if you had holding tanks it would be a great advantage, and you can dump on the way out.

I have expanded my take on it a little see below.

With say an 18 footer you may have a 50 liter holding tank, as in mentioned in my blog, you also should have a cassette/dolly on wheels as part of the package -

Now its your choice if you want to connect the transfer dolly to the holding tank and wheel it to wherever to dump [as you say you do now]

Or... as is allowed in "some parks" connect your holding tank,via the same hose [s] as your light & heavy grey water hose [s] directly to the sewer point at your site.

Or....you can wait until you are moving your van and dump directly to the sewer point in the park, or a council dump point, or if you have the facility at your home.

It just gives you more choice and trust me, on the occasions that your allowed to connect up right at your site its soooow much easier.

Note: The holding tank package normally includes a larger house 3 inches with a "push fit multi hole size discharge end" for a good seal at the dump point [for Black, light & heavy grey water] Plus a cassette/dolly on wheels when you need to empty before you leave the site or if there is no dumping allowed in your sites sewer point.

Because of the tight fitting hoses and chemical treating of the wast water there is no odor - A couple of picks are attached for your convenience

So its all about options - if the extra cost was negligible, there is no down side.

Wishing you and your family a lovely Easter Sunday

Cheers JOhn & Louise

On the beachfront

Bryan · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
JohnLG wrote:
Hi.....{Cupi}
Thanks for the reply........you are correct but in practical terms one would not travel very far with full "Heavy & LIght" Grey plus "black" water - get rid of it as soon as possible.
Di you know the new breed of vans that have been developed by the likes of Jaco [world head office] have greatly reduced the weight and therefor the need for bigger tugs.
In our current model on release it was noted that it was 1 ton less than previous for the same size and options
We will get there :)
Happy Easter
John on the river
PS Jayco is owned worldwide by Thor Industries who also own/make over 35 other makes of caravans including Airstream, Kingstone, Highland, etc etc - amazing factories nearly as big as Boeing if put together
Gday...
No wonder you have a soft spot for Jayco
http://go4us.blogspot.com.au/
Cheers - John

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin Good work Rocky

JohnLG · Veteran Member

Yes Jayco seems to be moving with the times,inventing, making them out of new space age much lighter materials.....we will definatly be bying another, be it a little bigger :)

Have a great Easter

John

brickies · Guru

Just read the bylaws of the camping at Greens lake and you are allow to camp at water edge has long has you are 20 mts from the edge .

Desert Dweller · Guru

brickies wrote:
Just read the bylaws of the camping at Greens lake and you are allow to camp at water edge has long has you are 20 mts from the edge .

Spent 8 nights at Greens around Melbourne Cup weekend last year. Make that 2 metres from the waters edge.

brickies · Guru

Well that what I read on there bylaw just this morning on their webpage , So maybe the distance has just changed recently .

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Thor purchased Jayco Corp (USA) which shares nothing at all with Jayco (Australia) except the name.
As previously stated, Jerry Ryan owns Jayco Australia and it is and remains a private company as far as I am aware.
The thing that gets up my nose is campers that camp as close to rivers, lakes etc as they can and discharge the grey water on the spot ( like the inconsiderate long term campers at Greens), I think you will find that, you should be at lest 50 meters back from any watercourse if you wish to discharge grey water on the ground in such places.
Absolutely.......

Cheers,
Peter

Bagmaker · Senior Member

regarding the "extra" weight carried when considering a grey system, in reality it shouldn't be such a problem.
The sites that restricts grey dumping typically do not supply fresh water either. So you have to use the stuff you carried there.
Your fresh water tank is down 100 litres for the 80 litres of grey water that you carry out.
I dont know where the other 20 odd litres goes but the ratio is never perfect for some reason!!
Very rare that you can leave with full fresh AND full grey or black....................