It has occurred to me that once a person has purchased their motorhome or caravan. They are considered capable in all areas of Rving.
I find this totally incredible.
I mean how can a person who has lived a city life comprehend the issues with driving on regional roads?
Same with a regional Rver, How can they comprehend the driving conditions in the cities?
Sure we have all had our lisences for a long peroid and driven on all roads.. Right?
Is this enough to qualify someone to drive in all conditions especially towing a vehicle behind?
What about radio operation proceedures and etiquette?
How about using GPS coordinates to get help or destination planning?
Who has recent First aid training?
Anyone applying for a job today has to attend an induction course, usually a video presentation on the safety aspects relating to that industry.
It is for the safety of the new employee after all and mandatory by government decree.
How come anyone can buy any type of RV and be considered to know its total operation in all conditions? This usually comes with experience, which cannot be purchased along with the RV.
Let's discuss this issue thoroughly and hopefully we could gain a consensus that we could then take to the Federal Government.
As more and more RV's, go on the road, there will inevitably come crisis' that will need legislation.
For example how high ranking police officer is calling for people over 70 to have their licenses canceled
Yet the government is looking at legislation to keep people working until they are 70. Great retirement life for the over 70's ( If your well healed enough to hire your own chauffeur)
Is it not better we regulate ourselves?? After all knows us better than ourselves??
Come on lets get some action happening, start this discussion from which we can use to mobilise our RV associations and insurance companies to lobby on our behalf.
Every person whom gains a driving licence is now in control of a "lethal weapon " RV ,caravan, motor cycle,trailer or even a motorised disabled buggy is a danger.Frankly I find your questioning over the top to say the least ! first aid ???? too .I am at a loss to comprehend your motives ,furthermore it sounds like a lot of **** stirring to be blunt ! However you are entitled to opine nevertheless . PS Most folk also at least provide a name !
-- Edited by moamajohn on Sunday 25th of September 2016 10:03:20 PM
-- Edited by moamajohn on Sunday 25th of September 2016 10:07:22 PM
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Westy. Some people I know are like slinkies. They look really funny when you push them downstairs !
Seriously, I think that the last line by the Op lets the whole post down.
Insurance companies would be the last group to which I would turn for such representation if it were to be sought. If Insurance companies were fair dinkum about their policies concerning RV's, then they would be offering a 10% discount on Policy premiums for each pro-active undertaking by the Insured owner. For example, attendance at a Tow Ed course = 10% discount on premiums; attendance at Road rules update session = 10 % discount; attendance at Defensive Driving Course = 10% discount.
If RV groups were to secure the involvement of Insurance Companies in such initiatives, then everyone would benefit if they chose to participate. Better still, what about the various motoring organisations getting involved and offering road rule refresher courses, defensive driving courses etc. After all, they are some of the biggest insurers of RV's across Australia.
That would be a PRO-ACTIVE thing to do and would probably have a much greater outcome than what has been raised by the Op. The key to such an idea being that it is not compulsory for anyone to participate; rather, it would be voluntary and the discounts offered would be the incentive.
If anyone out there expects any Government or their various Departments to keep motorists up to date with the latest road rule changes I would simply ask this; how long has it been since you saw an article in a Newspaper or on TV outlining the latest changes (whatever they might be) to the road rules.
I suspect that the Op might have been making a veiled reference to Licence Classes or something similar. If that is the case, then I would also suggest that even the holder of a higher class of licence e.g. HC class might have been driving on the road for twenty to thirty years since having opened up a rule book relating to road rules. So in my opinion, licence class does not guarantee the safety of a person to operate their RV out on the roads. It is their knowledge of the road rules and their appreciation of the issues involved in the operation of their RV rig that are the critical issues. Remember, common sense can not be taught but the requirements of interaction with other road users and the environment can!
How long has it been since you saw skippy sitting on the side of the road reading a copy of the road rules? Better still, how long has it been since you attended a caravan show and seen an RV retailer offering to throw in free attendance for buyers at a Tow Ed course with the purchase of a new RV?
Now let's have a fair dinkum discussion about the ability of drivers to operate RV's on the road. There is a hell of a lot that can be done without getting out the big stick, or worse still, waiting for Government to do something positive. It might just be the case that both Insurance companies, motoring organisations and RV owners could all benefit from such an approach. Remember, it would NOT be compulsory!
In my many years of experience working in heavy industry competency is gained in the following ways -
1) Knowledge Acquisition (learning the theory)
2) Skills Acquisition (learning how to do it)
3) Skills Consolidation (practising what you have learnt until you become proficient)
or
4) Recognition of prior learning (recognising the skills gained from prior experience)
As new RV owners we intend to get 1 & 2 through Tow-Ed training who are running courses in our local area, 3 should then come with plenty of on the job practice. I am very nervous about your suggestion RecycledTeenager to involve either state or federal governments (in my opinion) you will get something that costs you lots of money and probably has very little value. I have only this week experienced a great example of this nanny state legislation when I had to pay to get a breakaway monitor fitted in my tug (NSW requirement). Are you sure you aren't a retired bureaucrat as some of the things that you have listed sound a bit like that type of waffle i.e. first aid course, GPs destination planning, radio etiquette - give us a break ? Well said moamajohn.
Tones I don't know about the other discounts you have suggested but CIL are giving us a % refund on our insurance for doing the Tow-Ed towing course as soon as I send them a copy of the receipt. By the way that didn't influence our decision in any way to sign up for this training as we didn't even know about it at the time. Just a quick question - how did all the so called "experienced" RV owners that are already out on the road become competent or is the suggestion in the post that a lot of them are not and really and should go back and do this type of course ?
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Monday 26th of September 2016 08:23:41 AM
Why the "Nanny State" approach? Surely there is enough common sense out there that people will learn or seek help if not fully competent.
There are WAY too many rules and regs in this country as it is!
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"life is too short to spend it with people who suck the happiness out of you"
""Why the "Nanny State" approach? Surely there is enough common sense out there that people will learn or seek help if not fully competent.
There are WAY too many rules and regs in this country as it is!""
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Unfortunately.
Too many "Elders" thank they ARE competent.
Maybe yes. with a car and Trailer....
BUT
How many have had instruction/education on anything bigger. How to control. How to reverse.
WHAT to do when things go wring.
Unfortunately,, Not too many.
Yes. You can pick it up "as you go along" as most do. and. fortunately.
Most are lucky as far as "hmmm" things happening.
but there are Still a lot of really unavoidable. mainly incompetent/lack of knowledge as to what to do
Accidents happening.
PRE education along with some "physical instruction", in your rig.
would go a loong way to reducing the accidents. and making the roads a safer place.
EVERTYBODY if buying a rig for first time and not having Truck experience
(proper driving instruction with hrs under the belt)
SHOULD have to take a t least an education lesson of a coupla hrs. with maybe basid "demonstration" on reversing.
The money we spend on rigs. Surely it's worth an extra coupla hunded to do things right.
Same as these 5thers.
They ARE semi's, and some bigger than actual semi's I've driven.
Where's their licence.
They should have a semi licence. Sorry.
I've seen too many accidents commercially and privately driving.
Permission to drive 3 to 10 ton weapons on publoc roads are not a Given.
It should be earned.
My thoughts on it. And yes. I did have most licences b4 handing in.
The only comment I would make is that training can only help so much.
A one or two day course cannot give a driver a full range of experiences, and so like most other things in life, the only real teacher is real life experience.
I also shudder if we add a layer of regulation/required training, as I doubt we will see any real improvement in driving/towing. I base that on the younger drivers on "P" plates, who have a plethora of training and hours with instructors prior to getting a licence, but who are still often surprised and unable to handle "surprise" situations, as with the rest of us.
What we will spawn is a large number of tow schools with a dubious ability to teach, as there will not be enough skilled instructors. Who is going to train the trainers, as towing a van is not necessarily the same as driving a truck, except for maybe 5th wheelers and semis! It will become a free for all, much like the yearly vehicle checks that I understand are not always done as closely as you would expect (I am from SA so have no experience of them, so if the testing is done to a high standard in all instances them I apologise in advance).
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Regards Ian
Chaos, mayhem, confusion. Good my job here is done
Driving a larger than usual thing IS different. ANY "Advice" of any sort. is better than none....
Driving a longer than usual. heavier than usual. normally wider turning circle than normal is all new.
Just the braking distances, and clearances from curb, distance past corner b4 turning wheel.
How to control trailer as it first starts to swing. etc etc.
If somebody (probably ec truckies retired). were to spend some time and enlighten. There WOULD BE... Less accidents with these rigs and oldies.
It could also include giving advice on weights Gross.tare and balance of such.
Better off learning before. Than DURING an accident. which is happening because YOU DIDN'T KNOW>
Truck. SEMI. Multi. HEAVY goods haulage. ALL have special licences.
WITH HRS UP UNDER THE BELT. WITH AN INSTRUCTOR.. BEFORE YOU GO OUT BY YOURSELF.
OLD farts who've driven cars all their lives are even more so, NEEDING advice.
WHAT makes you.and anybody else. think YOU don't need a bit of advice before starting out.
and therefore being safer to everybody else on the road.
That's just arrogance. If a person has no experience..
Sorry mate. But I've driven trucks of all sizes and dimensions for over 50 yrs in quite a few country's. and seen plus read. heard of a lot more avoidable accidents..
The majority of all accidents is neglect and lack of knowledge of what to do when things go wrong
All accidents. apart from mechanical breakdown. are because SOMEBODY made a mistake. DID something wrong. A lot of times through lack of knowledge and personal skills.
I do an update advanced Truck driving test every 10 yrs. just to keep control of the bad habits I KNOW I pick up. So should everybody else. As far as I'm concerned.
It won't hurt anything but a persons conceit, arrogance. Of how good they think they are.
Quite often a big. "down to earth" lesson.
There are too many caravan accidents, and growing.
it needs restricting through education and practice. with education first.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 26th of September 2016 04:45:00 PM
Let's not stir the possum, there are plenty of bureaucrats out there who are more than willing to draw up more and more regulations for everyone to abide by. and design more and more courses that everyone must attend.
Just leave well enough alone.
Cheers
David
Hi.All the above are clearly correct and in everyones opinion we have only one ideal driver and thats ..me ..or you or any person reading this because we know we are good yes ? I mean fair dinkum ,we all have an answer to the solution don,t we ? We may theorise to our hearts content but sadly in the real world of vanning we truly can only learn by lifes experience no matter what any body says .Try veering off a road on a boggy section and hope you don,t lose it .How do you control a rig when your tyre on the tug blows at 90 klm/hr .Or a roo jumps out at the last minute into your wind screen ? These are not things one learns are they ?? these are things one has to experience and hopefully only the once yes?
My point is ... like many things in our life we cannot assume that things are pure and simple ...sadly some things are dealt to us in many various ways .cancer,heart problems,Arthritus ,gout later on dementia etc ..you get my drift yes? Well some things in life are to learnt by only living ones life as best one can and hopefully retaining the good bits for future living.
Perhaps one can be taught these things by a tutor as such ....but I doubt it because you and I have got by so far haven,t we without too much drama and I truly believe that we will endeavor to continue this path to our best ability to our closure .So keep on vanning and try to keep on the left side of the road .Cheers
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Westy. Some people I know are like slinkies. They look really funny when you push them downstairs !
Unfortunately my original comment was too long to be posted
Therefore I have shortened it
Quote from original poster Is it not better we regulate ourselves?? After all knows us better than ourselves?? Come on lets get some action happening, start this discussion from which we can use to mobilise our RV associations and insurance companies to lobby on our behalf. Unquote
I am not very good at getting some action going, therefore I have delegated my authority to my cat. Unfortunately my cat has just replied. "Me how?"
No insult is intended to you, and none shall be received by me
But... May I ask how old you actually are, as the Baby Boomers from my era, managed very adequately prior to any sort of safety induction
We learned to drive in the days of the Country Bumpkins, and the City Slickers. We actually had to drive on both types of roads, when we visited each other
You can quote me when I say that the folk who learned to drive on the single lane bitumen road, or/and the unsealed main roads of that era, can just about drive on any road
I wonder how many here have done a towing course practically no one I would guess,how many here have had a few minor hick ups when they first started towing quite a few I would guess.
thousands of people out there the vast majority of people are towing ther Rvs perfectly without the towing course , if you are the nervousness type with absolutely no confidence in your ability to tow a van maybe the course might be a good idea.
my wife tows our van quite well when she first started to tow I said you can't go wrong,the thing simply follows the car,just go steady and be awear of the side clearances in your mirror when your near things .
reversing requires practice but it is easily picked up with experience this I just my slant on the Subject and Iam not always right ...
Backing his van ? We can go other countries . Drive on other side of the road . Same with holiday campers here . I drove an RV across US and back . Only requirement was licence and 24 hours rest from flight . Let's not have too much reverse training . I'll loose my entertainment at camping grounds .. Lol
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 27th of September 2016 09:04:42 PM
