batteries

adreamer · Senior Member

batteries

Ge · Senior Member

Thank you
Thank very much for your post certainly an eye opener makes you wonder how many more nomads are running around with illegal batteries.
This is good information to keep in mind for later dates.

Thanks Helen, good luck happy traveling.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Yes Helen,
AGM or lithium may be a lot more suitable for your situation.
It is difficult to know your exact situation but we all need to be aware of "cowboys" in any industries.

You seem to be onto the requirements relating to your situation and I trust you will get what you need, combined with the safety aspects of your installation.

adreamer · Senior Member

Dickodownunder wrote:
Yes Helen,
AGM or lithium may be a lot more suitable for your situation.
It is difficult to know your exact situation but we all need to be aware of "cowboys" in any industries.

You seem to be onto the requirements relating to your situation and I trust you will get what you need, combined with the safety aspects of your installation.

Thank you, I'm sure there are many people unaware of this. Anyway it is highly illegal to install them without the right ventilation.

I am taking this man to small claims court and will be notifying anyone who will listen - Maybe even current affair if it can save someone's life.

PS: I am a solo female traveler, I rely on people's honesty when purchasing something for my van, or for anything. I know longer understand this world!!

I also cannot afford to lose $450.00!!

Helen

Dickodownunder · Guru

I am wishing you all the best Helen,

A token refund is not acceptable and I wish you all the best with your follow up.
Please let us know how you go dealing with this less than reputable repairer/supplier.

Cheers

brickies · Guru

Racq in Queensland sell battery on their break down service , I had a flat battery about a month back called them came out check my battery it was dead told me they could fit a new one , So I said yes please and felt that they would fit only the right battery for my need

JayDee · Guru

We also recently had RACQ replace our battery in our private sedan. I was advised to take the 3 year guarantee battery rather than the standard 2 year battery. Cost was an extra $20 but well worth it IMHO.

I sure pays to be a member of one of the national road side assist clubs, as they are very professional in all sectors of the motor industry.

Jay&Dee

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Wouldn't have taken much effert to fit cover with external ventilation over batteries ..

adreamer · Senior Member

Thanks for your reply, I am in the RAA but this is an internal battery not a car battery.

Helen

Cupie · Guru

My battery is in a cover under the lounge seat. i couldn't see any ventilation.

Is that not legal.

ps.. My 110? ah battery is rarely ever used as we don't bush camp. Might occasionally use the water pump (if there is any water in the tanks) to flush the toilet or wash our hands when we stop for lunch on the road. Otherwise I use a 4L container of water stored alongside the toilet. A bit of a waste I suppose. It is always on a smart charger & is replaced every 7 or 8 years or so if I remember.

brickies · Guru

Helen I would think RAA would replace any battery in your car .

iana · Guru

What a load of B---l S--t by the second person.

macka17 · Guru

??????

dogbox · Guru

iana wrote:

What a load of B---l S--t by the second person.

which second person

iana · Guru

Sorry Had to go off to work, early morning long day. By second person, I meant the fellow conning adreamer. What was illegal about the batteries, what do you call wet. I normally call wet batteries those that have filler caps to add water, but they are all wet, including AGM, I don't know about lithium, modern batteries use a cadmium alloy as lead plates, and cannot be filled (some can with the right screw driver), but they still have sulphuric acid as an electrolite, in fact these batteries with high amperage draw offs or high uncontrolled charging can be more dangerous that the so called wet batteries.
All batteries should be vented.
I have a new van, 2 x deep cycle cadmium batteries under the bed, supplied by Jayco. You were sold a good story, sorry.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Under pressure though .They don't vent the same .,

adreamer · Senior Member

iana wrote:
Sorry Had to go off to work, early morning long day. By second person, I meant the fellow conning adreamer. What was illegal about the batteries, what do you call wet. I normally call wet batteries those that have filler caps to add water, but they are all wet, including AGM, I don't know about lithium, modern batteries use a cadmium alloy as lead plates, and cannot be filled (some can with the right screw driver), but they still have sulphuric acid as an electrolite, in fact these batteries with high amperage draw offs or high uncontrolled charging can be more dangerous that the so called wet batteries.
All batteries should be vented.
I have a new van, 2 x deep cycle cadmium batteries under the bed, supplied by Jayco. You were sold a good story, sorry.

Why is it illegal then?? You need to look it up as I have after I was told about them.

It's to do with ventilation inside a small van and if the batteries are in a cover they can start to sweat and then they give off the poisonious gas (a bit like mustard gas) apparantly.

I never made the installation of these batteries illegal!!

Cupie · Guru

I don't know about 'Illegal', we get all sorts of legal opinions on here, but perhaps it's unsafe if only because of the risk of explosion if gassing. I don't know if a 'sealed' wet cell overcomes this issue. Maybe.

Mine is perhaps worse in that it is installed under a lounge right next to the power supply. No formal venting only a few holes thru the floor where pipes & wires enter.

(The so called sealed battery is in a battery box and next to it is the power supply in an almost sealed timber cupboard)

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Not like car batteries are totally sealed where stored under bonnet or boot . VW has them under back seat . Mini in boot and hardly a air sealed barrier between battery and cabin . It mainly hydrogen and risk of explosion . In sub stations you have to open battery room doors to access area ., I have an Odissy battery in race car . It can be run in cabin and be fitted sideways if you wanted .

adreamer · Senior Member

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Not like car batteries are totally sealed where stored under bonnet or boot . VW has them under back seat . Mini in boot and hardly a air sealed barrier between battery and cabin . It mainly hydrogen and risk of explosion . In sub stations you have to open battery room doors to access area ., I have an Odissy battery in race car . It can be run in cabin and be fitted sideways if you wanted .

THIS IS A MOTORHOME NOT A CAR HENCE I DO NOT HAVE BACK SEATS.

ANYWAY WHAT IS IT THAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT ILLEGAL!!!!!!

Hewy54 · Senior Member

When you say illegal, do you mean that they are illegal because your research shows that this is so or is it because the local caravan place told you they are illegal?
On the one hand we have a well known mechanic who fitted them, on the other hand we have the local caravan place.
Maybe this is what people do not understand about illegal.

Hewy54 · Senior Member

"The battery was also wired wrong - the charging terminals were fitted to the screw poles of the battery "
Sorry for doubling up on my post, but I am unsure of what this means.
On a normal car battery they have a + and - post that are used to connect terminals.
On my second battery in my 4WD the battery has a post and a screw in post.
On my van the batteries have only a screw in post.
In my opinion it makes no difference which post is used.
If you are basing your "illegal" view on the opinion of the local caravan place, I am not sure if this is correct.
Over to those on this forum who may have more knowledge than me.

iana · Guru

What sounds as if fitted, were marine batteries, they come with posts and screw in terminal. These batteries are very good, have stronger plates and come in usually now, cadmium alloy plates. Dosen't matter where the charge goes in, but they are used as both starting batteries, hence the posts for hi amperage draw off and the screw terminals going to "house" circuits. When I say hi amperage draw off, I mean really hi draw off, a small motor would not have that draw off. So apart from being more robust and more expensive, they are the same as any other.
I have them in my boat and am not using the post terminals, I also have one in the ute as an auxillary and still only using the screw terminals. It was recommended by our battery supplier and a better battery to use, to with stand the bumps when traveling.

adreamer · Senior Member

Hewy54 wrote:
When you say illegal, do you mean that they are illegal because your research shows that this is so or is it because the local caravan place told you they are illegal?
On the one hand we have a well known mechanic who fitted them, on the other hand we have the local caravan place.
Maybe this is what people do not understand about illegal.

The battery was not illegal is was way it was installed without ventilation.

I am over this post!!!!!!!

Cupie · Guru

adreamer wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Not like car batteries are totally sealed where stored under bonnet or boot . VW has them under back seat . Mini in boot and hardly a air sealed barrier between battery and cabin . It mainly hydrogen and risk of explosion . In sub stations you have to open battery room doors to access area ., I have an Odissy battery in race car . It can be run in cabin and be fitted sideways if you wanted .
THIS IS A MOTORHOME NOT A CAR HENCE I DO NOT HAVE BACK SEATS.
ANYWAY WHAT IS IT THAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT ILLEGAL!!!!!!

IS THAT YELLING?

I think that I will give this post a miss.

Tony Bev · Guru

Hello adreamer
My interpretation of your original post, so it could be wrong, and if it is wrong, then there was no disrespect intended

Is that there was one deep cycle battery in your vehicle, at the time of purchase
You then had a second deep cycle battery fitted, by a well known mechanic

You have now been advised that
Both batteries are illegal due to the batteries being a wet cell type, fitted in an unventilated area

You then advise other travellers to be aware that you should not fit wet cell deep cycle batteries in an unventilated area

I can relate to the fact that prior to visiting the caravan place, you had assumed that there were no problems with your batteries

(A little bit off topic here, but mainly for us folks who know a little bit about batteries)
Prior to purchasing, and setting up my motorhome, I earbashed many other travellers
One of my questions was "What type and size of deep cycle batteries do you have?"
Many people did not know, and were not even aware that there are different types of deep cycle batteries

Back on topic
Hello once again adreamer
You have said that you are taking the matter further with his Franchize Company,consumer affairs and RAA.

Therefore can you please let us all know what the final outcome is, and I hope that it is satisfactory to yourself

TheHeaths · Guru

Helen,

unfortunately your original post made it appear the batteries, and not the installation, were illegal. That is why the questioning and the disbelief expressed by other posters. If the post had been a bit clearer a lot of your angst could have been avoided. That has happened a couple of times on your threads recently, such as the gas explosion one. Virtual "yelling" and being "over this thread" also don't help ensure the correct information is passed on to others on the forum.

That said, a link to information you have been able to google up to show the illegality of the installation, as noted in one of your posts, would be helpful for others. The reason for that is twofold. One, I am having trouble finding anything that states outright what is illegal about it, and two, many of us have batteries installed in the same manner in similar positions in our vans by the manufacturer, and if illegal, it would be good to be able to prove that to them.

I also agree with Cupie, that forums often contain a great many "correct legal opinions", without any basis, and it is important to be careful about making statements about legality, especially as many non members come looking for information from knowledgeable people (us) about caravanning.

That said, if in fact the installation is illegal, and it can be shown to be so, I hope you are able to amicably work out a solution with the company. Whether the way to do that is the way you are progressing, I will leave to others to decide.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 4th of September 2016 07:13:23 AM

PeterD · Guru

To those claiming the use of batteries in some circumstances - PLEASE QUOTE THE LEGISLATION. The only legislation I am aware of is the carriage of batteries in aircraft freight/luggage. In other words, pt up or or shut up.

In saying that, I am aware of places where it is not advisable to mount batteries for the operation of those batteries.

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Thanks PeterD, TheHeaths and Tony Bev for saying what I was trying to get across. You all said it well.
The worry I have on forums is that there are many experts posting, but we do not know if all information is correct.
I have some experience, but try to preface remarks with IMHO.
If people put up comments or advice it helps if we know if this is because they have had experience, have an opinion or can provide a link to verify a "fact".
Adreamer has stated that the batteries were installed illegally.
I would still like to know if this is based on the opinion of the local caravan place, or if there is a link so I can read for myself about the legalities.

Dickodownunder · Guru

This publication from a well known author in the RV industry says it all.

caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/battery-ventilation-is-vital/

The paragraph titled "Summary" is most relevant but the entire article is worth reading.

My take on this is that anyone, that is mechanic, battery / tyre service technician, extra cheap shop auto parts, roadside breakdown service personnel. etc etc should follow the battery manufacturers warnings and instructions.
Wet cell battery manufacturers, in my observations, all recommend that their respective batteries be installed with adequate ventilation.

The advice of the installation being illegal may not be true but in the caravan repairers defence he did have adreamers health and well being in his concern.
The mechanic who installed the wet cell battery under a bed area without adequate ventilation ignored the battery manufacturers recommendations and placed adreamers health at risk.

At the very least, sleeping in an area with gasses being emitted from a charging battery may cause serious respitory problems.

At the least the guy who fitted the battery incorrectly should either supply a battery to adreamer that is fit for use in her situation or give her a full refund.
While there doesn't appear to be any legislation regarding fitting batteries in RV's in this country there does exist consumer protection which protects people from a sale of an item that is "not fit for purpose"

As I said above I wish adreamer the best with her claim against the battery installer.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Sunday 4th of September 2016 08:45:38 AM

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Sunday 4th of September 2016 08:46:45 AM