Changes to the pension coming soon

rockylizard · Guru

Changes to the pension coming soon

Cupie · Guru

And just think, SWMBO always wanted me to pursue a career in politics.

A Parliamentary pension would be great.

Now away you all go on the hoary old argument on 'entitlements'. Only to have the thread closed down after you get personal when you can't win the discussion with sound arguments.

brickies · Guru

This has been on the radar for some time it was in the Joe Hockey budget , I would think it would be a bonus to most on this forum has you can get the full pension at a higher cut off level , Which mean lots of people will get a pension increase , But with that there will be losers so it will depend where you sit in the big picture .

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

I'll have to sell a few things . But as per usual gole posts will change . Why way back I didn't put my eggs in one busket or depend on pension only .. But I'm not quite there yet !! Years seem to be going faster .

Bruce and Bev · Guru

Theres only one certainty in all this - increases to some will be less than they take away from others - its being done to save govt spending rather than touch the super concessions to the super rich (who are still working and usually wealthy anyway).

Neither major party were interested or made commitments to aged people in the recent election, and yet our numbers are rapidly increasing. Youd think that our votes were important to the politicians

NeilandRaine · Guru

Shouldn't effect me to much, I started with nothing and that's just about all gone now

brickies · Guru

Yes we should if at retirement age just enjoy life at some stage we need to stop growing asset .

Phil C · Guru

Gday all

I have stated all along that the baby boomers are going to change the way pensions happen, there are way too many of us!

Im glad I enjoyed my hard earnt and now reap the benefits from that slog. I believe, that the constitution will not allow anyone to change the way pensions are paid... Then again I may be wrong.. I hope not..

Cheers

daffyfrancis · Senior Member

Still appears to me to be a lucky country. A couple can have a home worth any amount of money plus approx. $375,000.00 & still get a full pension paid for by the current taxpayers. I can't imagine there is to much sympathy from the average taxpayer for the retirees who own their own homes & have another $$800,000.00+ to invest & still expect a welfare handout without spending some of their capital first.

David

brickies · Guru

Daid when anyone starts crying to me about not bee able to receive a pension I shake their hand say you have done well now enjoy yourself and stop feeling sorry that your are missing out .

Moorey · Senior Member

Well I came into this world nude, bald and with nothing in my hands. I intend to go out the same way.

Moorey

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I was born with nothing and still have most of it left so should be safe.

Plain Truth · Guru

There are no pockets in a shroud

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Yea doesn't mean you shouldn't Atleast try to have some of your own super, savings as pension when you retire . Seems the gov is taking consessions away for workers to help themselves to retire . Interest rates have a big say in payouts . When a lot of decisions where made interest rates were way over 8% . Luck to get half that now from term deposit .

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 25th of July 2016 03:41:49 PM

Cupie · Guru

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yea doesn't mean you shouldn't Atleast try to have some of your own super, savings as pension when you retire . Seems the gov is taking consessions away for workers to help themselves to retire . Interest rates have a big say in payouts . When a lot of decisions where made interest rates were way over 8% . Luck to get half that now from term deposit .

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 25th of July 2016 03:41:49 PM

I can recall when some of my mates took early redundancy (retirement) when rates or return were around 17%.

But then we purchased houses with comparable rates ... but the total build costs were less than $20,000.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Yep . 1982 46k --- 20k land 26k to build good house . Interest rates were around 8% In 1990 same area 130k each . Interest rates getting over 10% on new leans . $80 rent in 1990 . $510 rents now . But it doesn't mean buying a rental now will make you money . But I was stupid and silly at the time when I purchased them .. But as with everything timing is everything .

Weedpharma · Veteran Member

This has been a bugbear of mine for many years. First let me state I am about to be a self funded retiree with assets above the new limit.

Like many others we have saved for our retirement via many years of superannuation payments and done without to do so. I have always only been on average wages and my wife on relatively low wages. We have brought up two kids and assisted them though university.

The pension was never designed as a retirement plan for all and sundry. It is meant as support for those in need. Those that through no fault of their own cannot afford to pay their own way in retirement. And I do not begrudge them.

I do however object to those in a similar or better position than us getting a pension because they made no provision for their own retirement. They get their cake and eat it too.

Yes you can say that we now get to reap the rewards of saving while those on pensions scrimp now. But it is the taxpayers (probably yours and my kids) that are saddled with the expense. It will not be long before the government of either mob start thinking of us as another source of income.

I think that all those who are able to, should have to put some of their own pay packet into retirement savings. Those on minimal wage would still be supported.

Please don't come back with "I've paid taxes all my life......" Taxes are to pay for infrastructure, defence and medical, and, support those in need. It is not a retirement savings account for you to draw on.

Yes we will not suffer in retirement but we did without during our working lives.

Weedpharma

adreamer · Senior Member

Weedpharma wrote:
This has been a bugbear of mine for many years. First let me state I am about to be a self funded retiree with assets above the new limit.

Like many others we have saved for our retirement via many years of superannuation payments and done without to do so. I have always only been on average wages and my wife on relatively low wages. We have brought up two kids and assisted them though university.

The pension was never designed as a retirement plan for all and sundry. It is meant as support for those in need. Those that through no fault of their own cannot afford to pay their own way in retirement. And I do not begrudge them.

I do however object to those in a similar or better position than us getting a pension because they made no provision for their own retirement. They get their cake and eat it too.

Yes you can say that we now get to reap the rewards of saving while those on pensions scrimp now. But it is the taxpayers (probably yours and my kids) that are saddled with the expense. It will not be long before the government of either mob start thinking of us as another source of income.

I think that all those who are able to, should have to put some of their own pay packet into retirement savings. Those on minimal wage would still be supported.

Please don't come back with "I've paid taxes all my life......" Taxes are to pay for infrastructure, defence and medical, and, support those in need. It is not a retirement savings account for you to draw on.

Yes we will not suffer in retirement but we did without during our working lives.

Weedpharma

What about three generations of one family having never worked???????

Started back in the 60's and still going - lots of single mother's etc.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

With ya there Weedfarmer .

macka17 · Guru

Regarding pensions.

They were brought out for the needy. Not haves.

The basic workforce you have to have to run the world.

Corny... Yep but true.
85% of the world humans service the other 20%.

Pensions are for those that have nothing. and never had a chance of in the first place.

People that were financially... better off. through education, SKills etc.
Good on them.
But they should leave the pension to those who NEED it.

Not just wanting it, to make their lives more comfortable.

You have a $600 up Grand house paid for.
YOU don't need or should get the pension.
It's NOT there for you. Believe it or not.

Use Your assetts to keep yourself and leave the pittance to them that ain't got mate.

NO old fart Needs a multi hundreds of thousands house to live in. there's only 2 of you.
get smaller and utilise the assetts.
you earned it. but use it. It's NOT for the kids.

But leave pensions alone.

This gov.t .. NO the people of this country made a mistake yrs ago. allowing politicians to get their greedy hands on the original system. (B4 my time here '73)
You could have voted and controlled the ones who would do the right thing. rather than believe lies.
as they still tell and get away with.

UK and most European country's b4 the war. set up pension systems. and keep them going.

EVERYbody who earned wages and paid taxes. paid into it. Separately to all other outgoings......
and get returns. now.
regardless of what you have in bank. You paid for it

IN UK (example) there is a basic figure paid to all. bludgers or workers.

Then for every 2 yrs worth of stamps you've paid over your working life. you get a higher figure.
Plus. plus according to yrs worked.

Everybody is covered.. My mum died at 98yrs. and my brother/myself. got near $40k UK pounds from her will.
SAVED from her pension.
This country could have been in that situation too. If only.....

But. as I said. The pension is NOT for the haves, or the spending to get it crowd.

There are a lot more out there that actually NEED it.

Leave it alone..

macka17 · Guru

That above post may annoy a few.
STIFF.

Pensions. Like driving licences are not an entitlement. they are earned.

Pensions By the "working class"

Licences by anybody capable.
But I still personally think EVERYBODY should have a driving retest every few yrs.
I do one myself every 10 yrs.
Cause I want to.

brickies · Guru

We are all born in different situation , Grow up in in different family situation , We all do our best with what we have so it a bit late in life to lecture one and other , So I would the OP was just informing us who did not know that on 1 -1 - 2017 there will be some changes to the pension .

rockylizard · Guru

brickies wrote:
We are all born in different situation , Grow up in in different family situation , We all do our best with what we have so it's a bit late in life to lecture one and other , So I would the OP was just informing us who did not know that on 1 -1 - 2017 there will be some changes to the pension .

Gday...

After all the posturing and beating of chests and massaging of egos ... someone actually read the post for simply what it was.

Cheers - John

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Interesting to note that this discussion usually comes down to the fact that some have some savings put away, while others do not. Those with some savings feel hard done by as they get no pension. Those with no savings seem to begrudge anyone who has some money.
Lets look at why some people have managed to have a good retirement plan.
Maybe they were a business owner. Employed people and paid their company tax.
Maybe they were in a well paid job as a result of years of study and hard work.
Maybe they were just wage earners who went without during their working life to save some money.
I still believe that the fairest system is to have a basic pension and entitlements for anyone who reaches the pension age then a means test for extra pensions.

TheHeaths · Guru

It is unfortunate that this type of discussion always sets member against member, but I guess that is the way it will always be.

Anyway, I would be interested for someone to point me to a reference, citing the original setting up of the aged pension, stating that the pension was for those less fortunate, rather than this position being nothing more than the rhetorical spoutings of a number recent self serving politicians, of all persuasions, who are looking at ways to -

1) divert attention from their own self serving snuffling in the public trough &

2) do so by setting ordinary Australians against each other as this stops a united front questioning of the political motives.

If someone can put a reputable reference up that shows that to be the case, then I will accept that, but if it is not the case, then we should all be requiring the politicians to honour the original intent of the pension legislation and provide it to all. I agree with Hewy54's suggestion of a basic pension, with "add ons" being means tested, if the pension was originally intended for all.

Cupie · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
It is unfortunate that this type of discussion always sets member against member, but I guess that is the way it will always be.

Anyway, I would be interested for someone to point me to a reference, citing the original setting up of the aged pension, stating that the pension was for those less fortunate, rather than this position being nothing more than the rhetorical spoutings of a number recent self serving politicians, of all persuasions, who are looking at ways to -

1) divert attention from their own self serving snuffling in the public trough &

2) do so by setting ordinary Australians against each other as this stops a united front questioning of the political motives.
If someone can put a reputable reference up that shows that to be the case, then I will accept that, but if it is not the case, then we should all be requiring the politicians to honour the original intent of the pension legislation and provide it to all. I agree with Hewy54's suggestion of a basic pension, with "add ons" being means tested, if the pension was originally intended for all.

I became interested in the UK scheme after looking at one of macka17's posts so just googled 'UK Pension schemes ' & came up with a mountain of (confusing) information. Read a bit of it & got a headache so I stopped perhaps more confused than when I started.

Could do the same for the Aussie pension scheme if I had the inclination, but decided to do some gardening instead. More relaxing. I'll just keep my prejudices.

By the way, I was fortunate that it was mandatory for me to join an employer supported super scheme when I started work at age 15 & chose to invest an additional 5% of my salary. After 43 years of contributions I was able to access a wonderful 'defined benefit' scheme that was based on my final average salary multiplied by a factor based on my years of service. Beautiful! Got all my contributions back too with a small interest component as well. Had to take it as a lump sum though. But that was almost 20 years ago.

I think that I was lucky in that in my case Super was compulsory. Our salaries were so low those days that it is unlikely that I would, if left the choice, have paid much into super.

-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 26th of July 2016 10:22:36 AM

villatranquilla · Guru

Pension - whats that. Applied on 29/3 turned 65 on 26/4 and still waiting (only have a unit and no other assets). Have had 4 visits to Centrelink and 4 phone calls - it will be done soon they keep telling us.

rockylizard · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
It is unfortunate that this type of discussion always sets member against member, but I guess that is the way it will always be.

SNIP~~~ point me to a reference, citing the original setting up of the aged pension, stating that the pension was for those less fortunate, ~~~SNIP.

Gday...

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument

http://www.aihw.gov.au/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=6442475254

http://www.nma.gov.au/online_features/defining_moments/featured/age_and_invalid_pensions

that should keep you occupied for a while with a few reds

cheers - John

Phil C · Guru

Gday again.

This is a great thread if we all keep politics out of it.

We are on the full pension and I get a full disability pension from Dept of Vets Affairs.

The unfortunate truth is that compulsory super came in around 1987 ( we used my meager DFRDB for a house deposit) and of course we didnt have enough ($120,000) when retirement came up. So we sold the lot and now live in a caravan. Im not sure if that makes me needy or a spender? I guess we tried to invest but were caught out with the expenses of bringing up 2 kids a home and car, not to say 2 cats and a dog, on crap wages.

Its only the later 3 years of our working lives that we had good paying jobs, health issues intervened and retirement was the only option 3 years short of 65. Im sorry if people think we are not pulling our weight, but we have struggled on crap wages for military personnel and technicians, but we made it and our kids were never hungry or cold. Im not sure I agree with some of the post put up here, but thats what makes the world go around, we cant all agree on the same things.

Im not sure which category we fit into, but most of our working life has been a struggle because of the trade I was in and ill health, nobody wants to employ a broken electrician who is a specialists on aircraft. In retrospect there are a number of life choices I would change if I had my time again.

I guess I can only say thank you to our system of pensions, without which we would be in a very bad situation. We now live rather comfortably in our caravan and go on trips only after a period of saving up.

Just as an aside, my Father in Law scrimped and scraped his whole working life, didnt get a car till my wife was 10, and a TV after we married, hardly ever went out and worked for a govt defense organisation with super contributions taken from his low wage. At the end he was almost self funded with a top up from the aged pension, he died 10 years after retirement, him and Mum went on a few trips and didnt live high on the hog. When they divided up the estate he had very little to call his own. I guess self funded is mostly for the more wealthy.

Cheers folks

-- Edited by Phil C on Tuesday 26th of July 2016 12:05:40 PM

-- Edited by Phil C on Tuesday 26th of July 2016 12:12:11 PM

macka17 · Guru

Hey Cupie.

The UK pansion scheme.Originally. was quite simple.
Till politicians twisted things around over successive govt's
trying to get their greedy fingers in a multi billion $$$ pie.
To some extent they did get some. But.
Basically the bulk is still locked and always will be.
Not that they not still trying to steal it though.

In reality.
every worker that pays taxes. pays. On top of any other schemes. taxes etc.
for a "stamp" per week worked. (was 27 shillings a week when I came here)
every yr. 52 weeks. Card full. YOU hand it in and they gave you a blank one.

It stockpiled up over the yrs.
Then.
When you reach retirement age.
THEY (from NZ) contact you (here)with a folder.
You fill it in,
and every month you get a payment into your stipulated bank acc't.
till you calk it.
I and others from other country's too are entitled. prepaid for it.
regardless of what we have otherwise.

There is a basic figure. ALL get.
worker or bludger (****).

Then on top of. you get more, incremently.
According to the 2 yr plus 2 yr etc, accumulation of stamp cards paid in over your life.

Basic and very simple.

It is a SUPER fund. started near 100 yrs ago by sensible govt's.

and all the pigs have been trying to get fingers into it ever since

Unfortunately the AUstralian people let their greedy pricks rob it
and now everybody fighting for the scraps.

But Pensions are for, Basically the disadvantaged nowadays.

You worked it right and nicely advantaged. GOOD.
But a lot of people not capable of being/doing so.

Leave it for them,
and use your accumulation for yourself. (You/yourself being people.not any individual ok)
Let the kids get their own....

That's the way of the world hey.
Have's have
AND WANT MORE..
Needs...well they just need and hope for.

Have a great one mate..
Cat whinging.. I'm using vaccuum again
he hatesz it.

-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 26th of July 2016 12:02:38 PM