Backpackers Flout Local Council Camping Restrictions...

Weevil · Guru

Backpackers Flout Local Council Camping Restrictions...

elliemike · Guru

Weevil wrote:
I got this via email from another GN today about backpackers parked last night at South Beach (South Fremantle WA);
"Last night we pulled into South Beach car park to have a bite to eat( take away in the car)
We COUNTED 22 backpackers parked there. Vans & cars parked up right under the NO CAMPING SIGN couldnt believe it. They looked like they were all settled for the night and very noisy."
There is a great fish and chip shop just near there, they must be doing a great trade. They used to sell "Faggots" there don't know if they still do, any Brits here would know what they are.

-- Edited by Weevil on Sunday 13th of March 2016 12:19:36 AM

Where they there at Midnight. Id be very surprised if the rangers allowed that. I have a freind who is a Ranger I might just see if I can find out.

Bruce and Bev · Guru

Hope your Ranger friends and his work mates bounce these bums out of this area (and all others in Aust. where they choose to ignore "no camping" signs. They do the rest of us no good at all

Izabarack · Guru

Weevil wrote:
They looked like they were all settled for the night and very noisy."

Well, if they looked like they were camping, I am sure a Judge would lock them away on your friend's say so. Next time won't be the first time I have parked under a no camping sign while I ate my Fush n Chups.

However, if the Ranger found them all tucked up in bed at one in the morning, impounding their vehicles for 28 days would be a good start to get the info out on social media; respect No Camping signs.

Iza

Bushpie · Guru

Difficult I know..........but only yesterday the same "NO CAMPING" signs on rest stops etc were causing confusion amongst travellers who felt intimidated by the sign and continued to drive on ....

Was not long ago that the Fremantle rangers clamped down the north mole campers and moved them on ....... So they did not go far......

We as GNs are always eager to grab some free bush camping travelling our playground so perhaps we should not be to harsh on our international tourists trying to get away with it in our cities...........provided they respect the environment of course...

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

We spend millions of dollars to attract these people to this country to spend their money.
They represent the most lucrative section of the international tourist trade for us.
We know very well how they spend their Euros and what they spend them on.

And we ignore all of that and refuse to provide what they need.

Having spent a lot of time touring Europe where most of these visitors come from, this country has a lot to learn about vehicle based tourism.
The fault lies with us, not them.

Cheers,
Peter

Moorey · Senior Member

If the Liberal Government has its way we may not have to worry about backpackers as there will not be many only those who arrive with sufficient funds for their stay. Backpackers work hard in harvesting and packing within our food supply chain and put every cent of millions of dollars back into the Australian economy. If they have to pay a 30% tax the trip to work and play in Australia will not be financially viable and the numbers visiting will reduce dramatically. There will be no winners from this move but the losers will be many from the economy of smaller towns at harvest time to the popular tourist places right around Australia. Agreed there should be more pressure brought to bear on parking and duration at free and parkland camping, but it should be by informative information online to educate visitors prior to visiting this great country.

The Australian economy and farming communities need backpackers and they make their decision to come here based on information supplied online and word of mouth by those who have traveled and worked here. Change will not happen overnight but it can be done but it must happen soon. LETS ALL TRY TO GET ALONG AND IF WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY PASS ON A LITTLE BIT OF ADVISE AS TO WHAT WE WOULD LIKE FROM OUR VISITORS TO MAKE EVERYBODIES TRAVELS A MEMORABLE ONE.

There!!! Ive had my little rant and I would say the same thing about any political party who would suggest making the same changes. Enjoy your travels and may your journey be a safe one.

Dave.

elliemike · Guru

elliemike wrote:
Weevil wrote:
I got this via email from another GN today about backpackers parked last night at South Beach (South Fremantle WA);
"Last night we pulled into South Beach car park to have a bite to eat( take away in the car)
We COUNTED 22 backpackers parked there. Vans & cars parked up right under the NO CAMPING SIGN couldnt believe it. They looked like they were all settled for the night and very noisy."
There is a great fish and chip shop just near there, they must be doing a great trade. They used to sell "Faggots" there don't know if they still do, any Brits here would know what they are.

-- Edited by Weevil on Sunday 13th of March 2016 12:19:36 AM
Where they there at Midnight. Id be very surprised if the rangers allowed that. I have a freind who is a Ranger I might just see if I can find out.

Just realised he is now with Canning Council have'nt had a reply from him yet.

Roving-Dutchy · Guru

Easily sorted, just replace the no camping signs with no parking signs 1am to 5am, ranger just goes round putting fines under wipers, most of these vans are cheap rentals, so fine ends up back at the rental company and goes on their credit cards, doesn't matter if they have left the country, the word will soon get out via social media and problem solved.

All the rangers overtime is paid by the money coming in from fines.

Cheers

David

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Why on earth should we ban spending a night in a car park that would otherwise be empty?
In Europe we found many that were exactly the other way around, even commercial car parks.
There was "pay and display" from 9 am until 5 pm and then they were free, right in the middle of town.
We found car parks with half a dozen spaces reserved for motorhomes 24/7 and a free dump point and water in one corner. Again, right in town.
Have enough places like that and the self inflicted "problems" simply disappear.
It is not rocket science.

Cheers,
Peter

Weevil · Guru

My info came from an experienced GN who is a member of this forum, they were on there way home further south after an event and had stopped for a bite to eat.

I think they would have had a good idea whether or not they had settled in for the night etc (the fish and chip shop by the way is about a km down the road from there). I also doubt any of them would be moving on to find somewhere else (other than CP's there is nowhere else in the area) at that time. Here is an another tit bit from a follow up email;

"one that spoke to us was pretty well on the way to being drunk waving a bottle around. Some were already asleep.....foggy windows etc, etc"

I would say it is probably a place that is passed around on the backpacker grapevine as somewhere to camp in that area. I agree with a comment made here that enough is not done to accommodate these young overseas backpackers on their travels, most are doing it on a shoestring and cannot afford CP's, especially those who have to pay exhorbitant hire vehicle charges as well. With the younger backpackers, a lot are attracted to our beach areas which is understandable, also somewhere to have a free shower (albeit cold) and good toilets. If I was in their shoes in their circumstances I would probably do the same thing. Please don't shoot the messenger, I am just saying....

madaboutled · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Why on earth should we ban spending a night in a car park that would otherwise be empty?
In Europe we found many that were exactly the other way around, even commercial car parks.
There was "pay and display" from 9 am until 5 pm and then they were free, right in the middle of town.
We found car parks with half a dozen spaces reserved for motorhomes 24/7 and a free dump point and water in one corner. Again, right in town.
Have enough places like that and the self inflicted "problems" simply disappear.
It is not rocket science.

Cheers,
Peter

For you and I and many others who have fully self contained vehicles (motorhome or caravan) I can't see a problem with that either. But, the backpacker vehicles are far from "self contained" and then there's the mess that's usually left behind. One of the problems is the hire companies themselves with false and missleading advertising like this:

greyhoundtom · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Why on earth should we ban spending a night in a car park that would otherwise be empty?
In Europe we found many that were exactly the other way around, even commercial car parks.
There was "pay and display" from 9 am until 5 pm and then they were free, right in the middle of town.
We found car parks with half a dozen spaces reserved for motorhomes 24/7 and a free dump point and water in one corner. Again, right in town.
Have enough places like that and the self inflicted "problems" simply disappear.
It is not rocket science.

Cheers,
Peter

I certainly agree 100% that much more should and could be done to accommodate this type of tourists, and the pay and stay idea with parking ticket machines, toilets and suitable rubbish bins provided would go a long way toward sorting that particular problem.

At the same time I could see a few grey nomads taking advantage of the same facilities for a low cost overnight stop.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I suggest the % of grubby grey nomads its at least as high or higher than the % of grubby back packers too.
Some people lump all of these young people into one basket, but complain as soon as someone does the same and includes them.
Get real folks, that's not the way it is.

I got this via email from another GN today .......

Chinese whispers too?

Cheers,

Peter

elliemike · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I suggest the % of grubby grey nomads its at least as high or higher than the % of grubby back packers too.
Some people lump all of these young people into one basket, but complain as soon as someone does the same and includes them.
Get real folks, that's not the way it is.

I got this via email from another GN today .......
Chinese whispers too?

Cheers,
Peter

Got to agree with you Peter.

There was rubbish in these places years ago before the overseas travellers started venturing with vehicles into these places in greater numbers.

I seem to remember the outback roads strewn with empty stubbies. In fact I was reading a book in 1968 (I was at sea then) about travel in outback Australia earlier in the 60's the author commenting on not losing sight of the track as it was well defined by discarded beer bottles for hundreds of miles.

The Asbestos, building rubble, wheels, tyres,batteries, oil containers (very large ones) Disposable nappies ! (back packers ! nappies ) broken chairs etc. Can't all be Back Packers fault.

I watched a full, big bus load of Australians in Broome, have their pic nic lunch, they had obviously got from Maccas. Eat drink and then just got back on the bus and drove away leaving the packing, containers, paper, and bottles on the grass. They were not overseas visitors. The backpacker overseas visitors and other travellers all walked over and cleaned up after them.

Dhutime · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Why on earth should we ban spending a night in a car park that would otherwise be empty?
In Europe we found many that were exactly the other way around, even commercial car parks.
There was "pay and display" from 9 am until 5 pm and then they were free, right in the middle of town.
We found car parks with half a dozen spaces reserved for motorhomes 24/7 and a free dump point and water in one corner. Again, right in town.
Have enough places like that and the self inflicted "problems" simply disappear.
It is not rocket science.

Cheers,
Peter

Agee let's use car parks for the overseas travelers who lets face it have spent a considerable amount getting here,and spend a considerable amounts in our local shops . Nowadays most good caravan parks are close to full up with grey nomads anyway . Dhutime

-- Edited by Dhutime on Sunday 13th of March 2016 09:25:27 PM

-- Edited by Dhutime on Sunday 13th of March 2016 09:27:08 PM

Weevil · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I got this via email from another GN today .......
Chinese whispers too?

Cheers,
Peter

Re your smartarse sarcastic remark, no, the GN who sent it to me was the one who saw it and emailed me.

From my original post if you cared to read it properly;

"My info came from an experienced GN who is a member of this forum, they were on there way home further south after an event and had stopped for a bite to eat."

-- Edited by Weevil on Sunday 13th of March 2016 09:58:07 PM

Jayco Gypsy · Senior Member

Just to put to bed the Chinese Whispers I was the one who witnessed what was going on at 11pm at night and happened to mention it to Weevil who only posted an extract of what I had written.

"Last night we pulled into South Beach car park to have a bite to eat( take away in the car)

We COUNTED 22 backpackers parked there. Vans & cars parked up right under the NO CAMPING SIGN couldnt believe it. They looked like they were all settled for the night and very noisy."
"one that spoke to us was pretty well on the way to being drunk waving a bottle around. Some were already asleep.....foggy windows etc, etc"

We were just very surprised (gob smacked in fact) to see so many camped in a clearly marked & signed area considering how vigilant the Parking Inspectors in Fremantle are.

Most of them were tucked up for the night. Not one Wicked Camper in sight.
One group was drinking and cooking in a parking bay between their vans even though there are BBQs provided.
Whether they are Back packers, Travellers or GN really doesn't matter the area is clearly marked NO CAMPING.
I was just really taken back as to how many were there and none with self contained facilities.

Did we do anything about it... no...it was purely an observation. Their choice their consequence if any.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Jayco Gypsy wrote:
We COUNTED 22 backpackers parked there.

Just what is a "backpacker", by your first hand account?

Cheers,

Peter

elliemike · Guru

Have a look at this.

http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/461176.html

Plendo · Guru

So according to the article the problem campers are not backpackers, but the more common ferel known as a "grey nomad", who buys little locally, and is typically armed!

We do have an image problem.

rockylizard · Guru

Plendo wrote:
So according to the article the problem campers are not backpackers, but the more common ferel known as a "grey nomad", who buys little locally, and is typically armed!
We do have an image problem.

Gday...

cry cry Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of those who are members of this forum (and other fora) to promote a good image and 'look after our country', we are the minority of the travellers painted with the all encompassing 'grey nomad' sticker.

12,000 members on here, 22,000 on another caravanning forum, and 11,000 on another - and I know there are many who are on all three of these three major travelling fora. Despite those numbers we, the informed, caring, thoughtful, environmentally aware, are very much in the minority of the large number of travellers on the road.

Many of those on the road are not full-time travellers and my experience has been that some of those who are the 'part-time' traveller seem to be the least considerate and more likely to leave "only a bit of rubbish" behind. They are also the more likely to have the "I want to camp free - not 'freedom' - but free' and have an expectation that it is their right to do so and that communities MUST provide for their 'comfort'. CMCA (to name one) has certainly gained incredibly vast media coverage aggressively pushing that lifestyle to all and sundry ... and convincing communities (and their members) that they should (MUST?) provide free sleeping/rest areas for the "travelling wallet".

Add to that some of the backpacker fraternity and that adds to the problem that is regularly reported in the various media.

I guess because I travel mainly inland, camp in camping spots away from bigger towns, and away from 'tourist attractions', I seem to meet many who are NOT the 'freeloader' types and respect and nurture the small communities that host their camp spots. That includes the many backpackers I have met over the years.

There is no answer I can think of. To be honest one needs to only look around any 'normal' neighbourhood, shopping centre, city park and even city streets and the same is happening. Even the 'permanent' residents have little respect for community values these days.

Yes, there are those permanent residents who do uphold the "good" standards, but it is usually not reflected in the environment they are forced to live in - caused by the actions of the thoughtless and inconsiderate.

Unfortunately, as someone posted in this thread earlier, this has been a problem for decades. The 'travelling public' are thoughtless litterers of the environment they travel through - so much rubbish alongside our highways. Drink it up, eat it up, throw it out the window. hmm

Cheers - John

Bruce and Bev · Guru

Spot on Rocky !

gold dandelion · Senior Member

still biffo going on. I wonder if the back packers carry on like this

elliemike · Guru

My mate the Ranger says it is a constant battle on the coastal town car parks near the sea to stop the overnight camping. Wheel clamping 3 hours after the Ranger has issued a warning for the registration plate number. Even if they move and camp further on they will be clamped. This is under discussion by the councils. But it need the "Manpower" to enforce this.

They are not all overseas visitors either, a good proportion he said are Australians who know how to work the system and dictate their rights to the Ranger.

The rangers have other calls/complaints to deal with as well as part of their job within the residential community. Not a job I would like.

03_Troopy · Guru

elliemike wrote:
Have a look at this.
http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/461176.html

That bloke is a fool, with little to no idea about the things he writes.

madaboutled · Guru

03_Troopy wrote:
elliemike wrote:
Have a look at this.
http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/461176.html
That bloke is a fool, with little to no idea about the things he writes.

100% is not enough to agree with you, makes me want to re-visit W.A. just to educate this moron.

Don't know if you noticed, there's a comments section at the bottom, but, the comments are limited to "Friends Only" seems he doesn't have any cause there's ZERO comments. Wonder Why?.

-- Edited by madaboutled on Wednesday 16th of March 2016 08:43:37 AM

Baz421 · Guru

Plendo wrote:
So according to the article the problem campers are not backpackers, but the more common ferel known as a "grey nomad", who buys little locally, and is typically armed!
We do have an image problem.

Agree. I just wrote a very comprehensive post and hit submit and got thrown off the internet.

Anyway what I said in 200 words or so was in Tassie last month heaps of free campers ate St Helens and Triabunna as they welcome free campers. Wynyard on the other hand couldn't care less IMHO.

WHAT CAN WE DO - email councils to tell then the benefits of free camping, NOT THE NEGATIVES as we often focaus on.

Maybe we could start a campaign - THE ECONOMIC VALUE OF GREY NOMADS and spread the word. Maybe have a tell the world how good we are month?

Any other ideas folks????

dorian · Guru

People are pigs. Period. Nothing is sacred.

Whenever I see these types of discussions, I always recall the Anzac Day atrocity of April 2005 when an Australian rabble left their rubbish at Anzac Cove for others to clean up.

www.smh.com.au/news/National/Gallipoli-litterbug-fallout/2005/04/27/1114462074454.html

This comment says it all:

Prime Minister John Howard said complaints about the litter were out of proportion, and compared the sacred site with the foreshore of Sydney Harbour after New Year's Eve celebrations.

The ABC's Chaser boys had a nice take on the incident.

Lest we forget our rubbish: Ian Kiernan to represent Aust at Gallipoli next ANZAC Day:
www.chaser.com.au/2005/lest-we-forget-our-rubbish-ian-kiernan-to-represent-aust-at-gallipoli-next-anzac-day/

Turkey has invited Clean-up Australia guru Ian Kiernan to represent Australia at the Gallipoli dawn service next ANZAC Day after Prime Minister Howard refused to criticise what he described as "reverential littering" at this year's commemoration.

...

The plan comes in the wake of a controversial dawn service this year, in which music videos including the Bee Gees' "Stayin' Alive" was played to entertain young Australians waiting for the ceremony. Some veterans say the choice was inappropriate. "It's not so much the lyrics," said RSL President Wal Simpson, "it's that the really high voices are a bit girly. And those 70s music videos look so amateur.

-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 16th of March 2016 10:47:23 AM

rockylizard · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
~~~SNIP WHAT CAN WE DO - email councils to tell then the benefits of free camping, NOT THE NEGATIVES as we often focaus on.
Maybe we could start a campaign - THE ECONOMIC VALUE OF GREY NOMADS and spread the word. Maybe have a tell the world how good we are month?
Any other ideas folks????

Gday...

Join CMCA ... they are VERY active ... aggressively active ... in the wider Strayan community pushing exactly that.

To be honest, they have shown they are very effective in achieving their aims. Think of them fondly each time you dump that black water in the blue hole.

However, whilst they actively highlight the "economic value" of GNs they also tell communities that these "economic valuables" want to stay for nothing - free - and that communities should (must?) provide these facilities - or lose the "economic value" of the "travelling wallets". No facilities and GNs will "vote with their wheels".

I wait to be howled down. However, it is a double-edged sword hmm ... GNs are held up as an "economically valuable" to the community .... but also that GNs want it all for free so we can be that "economic valuable".

No wonder communities (and the general public) are a little confused.

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 16th of March 2016 11:54:54 AM