JUMP STARTERS FOR VEHICLES

Dougwe · Chief one feather

JUMP STARTERS FOR VEHICLES

blaze · Guru

If its not as heavy as your battery and the cables aint as heavy as your vehicle it aint going to work
cheers
blaze

KevinC · Senior Member

I previously repaired my jumper leads by soldering the clamps on to the cables. The crimped ends weren't tight enough after a few years, and corrosion had set in too. The ones I use now are newer, higher quality, and of course more expensive.

-- Edited by KevinC on Sunday 14th of February 2016 08:47:09 AM

Radar · Guru

Hi Dougwe

Now your little gadget would be handy to run phone, tablet but the question is a question.

A little trick I used once to start a truck was to double the leads on the positive and then a grab a lump of pipe to act as your earth.

Hope you get the picture, I know what I trying to say.

Now watch all the techs come in and say this don't work as you need wdh on vehicles. Bugger sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Radar · Guru

Having a good Sunday.

-- Edited by Radar on Sunday 14th of February 2016 10:11:18 AM

Jaahn · Guru

Hi Dougwe,

My thoughts !

I have a jump starter(at the kids I think ?) which is a normal sized one but it has to be charged every so often as it slowly dies unused. Works on cars OK.

I have a set of jump leads that are old too but are made up from welding cables and they start anything so far. I had some ordinary bought ones years ago and threw then away as they were no good. If you buy any then buy the biggest cables or they are just useless. The cables just get hot as the batteries get flatter. IMHO most are too short also. My cables are longer so they actually reach the battery OK without having to manouver too much. I fitted an electronic saver device on them also for modern cars and soldered the end to the clamps.

To start a diesel you need a quick burst of power so they crank quickly. Otherwise NO GO. Also now the electronics need to have enough voltage as you crank or they will NO GO.

Not sure about those new little boxes of batteries but I suspect that they will do OK if your battery is just a bit flat but not if it is very flat. No experience !

Jaahn

Brenda and Alan · Guru

Doug I would suspect that the battery on the car you were trying to start had totally failed and was using most of the power from the jump starters. Hence the hot leads. If this occurs disconnect the earth cable from the faulty battery and connect to this as it will remove the faulty battery from the circuit. Once the vehicle is started carefully reconnect the earth without removing jump leads and allow the vehicle to run for 10 minutes before removing jumpers. This will prevent the alternator from producing a much higher voltage output (over 50V) and destroying anything turned on on both vehicles. With no battery or dead battery the alternator has no reference voltage with which to control its output.

Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Sunday 14th of February 2016 09:41:32 AM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Interesting, thankyou all so far.

A little more info.

"Glenelg" Dave and myself just performed a little experiment after hearing about it. First, Dave has a little battery pack like the one on my attached pic but bigger, his starting is 300A and peak is 600A. Second, the experiment, we disconnected both the + & - cables from tug battery then connected the little battery pack to the cables, Bingo, tug started second time.

So maybe these little battery pack boosters do work but need the bigger ones.

I am now aslo looking into wiring up a regulator so I can utilise my 120w portable Solar Panel incase of being stranded in the middle of no where with a flat battery in the tug and no one to help out. Even though it will take a little while to get enough starting power, I can at least be on my way outa there and not sleeping with wild animals etc. I heard that KFC. Yes wild women might be acceptable.

This is a little project that might help others out so will keep all this together here in good old "Techies" I tried to title it so it could be found later when in the dungeon.

Keep your comments flowing.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Sunday 14th of February 2016 11:25:27 AM

Hey Jim · Guru

hi Dougwe,

Try this. I have started a few in my time.

1. After attaching the jumper cables leave your engine running for a GOOD Five minutes at 1800 - 2000rpm If the other battery is DEAD it will trickle a small amount of juice into it. Make sure ALL lights are OFF. Give your engine a little extra RPM before he / she turns the key and you should be able to get him/ her started IF IF his battery is not too old. If his battery drops a cell (most batteries have 9- 11 plates. Lose one cell and its all over red rover.) New Battery.

I to silver solder my terminals to gain maximum conductivity.

Regards Jim

Jaahn · Guru

Hi Alan and others, smile

Some years ago I was told by a "usually reliable source" who worked for Bosch that some new cars were driven out of the factory to storage fields without a battery confuse A battery was not fitted to the cars until they were ready to be transported. This prevented battery problems from long storage etc. Cars may sit in storage for considerable times.

The technical facts. The alternators now have zenner diodes fitted instead of ordinary diodes so these dissapate any voltage spikes and transitional surges that may be caused. The regulator does control to a normal voltage anyway not excessively high as indicated. These zenners have been commonly around for 15+ years now. I do not recommend doing this just pointing out some past development in auto electrics. Also if the alternator is still connected to the cars electrical system correctly it should protect the electronics against surges and spikes.

Jaahn

PS do not test these diodes for conducting in each direction with voltages more tha

dorian · Guru

These Chinese jump starters contain 3 (or 4?) lithium battery packs such as those used by RC car enthusiasts. The ratings are usually fictitious. However, under favourabale circumstances they do work.

See thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t61144684/portable-power-jump-starters/

erad · Guru

Most cheapie jump starters used a small sealed Lead Acid battery - probably about 17 amp-hours capacity. You have to keep them charged or they will die on you. You find this out when you need them most. So, periodically charge up your jump starter and you may have some juice when you need it. WHich reiminds me - I should charge up mine now...

03_Troopy · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
Hi Alan and others,
Some years ago I was told by a "usually reliable source" who worked for Bosch that some new cars were driven out of the factory to storage fields without a battery A battery was not fitted to the cars until they were ready to be transported. This prevented battery problems from long storage etc. Cars may sit in storage for considerable times.
The technical facts. The alternators now have zenner diodes fitted instead of ordinary diodes so these dissapate any voltage spikes and transitional surges that may be caused. The regulator does control to a normal voltage anyway not excessively high as indicated. These zenners have been commonly around for 15+ years now. I do not recommend doing this just pointing out some past development in auto electrics. Also if the alternator is still connected to the cars electrical system correctly it should protect the electronics against surges and spikes.
Jaahn
PS do not test these diodes for conducting in each direction with voltages more tha

Zener Diodes have been around as long as diodes have. They may use a zener as a voltage clipper, on the output, to shed a higher voltage than is desirable, I've never really noticed in any schematics I've seen, but alternators still have standard rectifier diodes to rectify the 3 phase AC produced.

Jaahn · Guru

03_Troopy wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Hi Alan and others,
Some years ago I was told by a "usually reliable source" who worked for Bosch that some new cars were driven out of the factory to storage fields without a battery A battery was not fitted to the cars until they were ready to be transported. This prevented battery problems from long storage etc. Cars may sit in storage for considerable times.
The technical facts. The alternators now have zenner diodes fitted instead of ordinary diodes so these dissapate any voltage spikes and transitional surges that may be caused. The regulator does control to a normal voltage anyway not excessively high as indicated. These zenners have been commonly around for 15+ years now. I do not recommend doing this just pointing out some past development in auto electrics. Also if the alternator is still connected to the cars electrical system correctly it should protect the electronics against surges and spikes.
Jaahn
PS do not test these diodes for conducting in each direction with voltages more tha
Zener Diodes have been around as long as diodes have. They may use a zener as a voltage clipper, on the output, to shed a higher voltage than is desirable, I've never really noticed in any schematics I've seen, but alternators still have standard rectifier diodes to rectify the 3 phase AC produced.

Hi,

You missed the point here. The main rectifier diodes are zenners.

Look at this Bosch sheet. http://apps.bosch.com.au/AAExtranet_TechSearch/docs/repairinstruction/altR11-0.pdf

Jaahn

PS the point is the protection they offer against overvoltage surges.

-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 15th of February 2016 09:40:17 PM

-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 15th of February 2016 09:46:04 PM

03_Troopy · Guru

I don't see the point

The voltages would still be conducted in the forward biased opposing diodes.

-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Monday 15th of February 2016 09:24:09 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Oh dear me, I'm all confused now smile I don't know if to use zenner's confuse or diodes confuse now to jump start a car biggrin

Those men in white coats have just arrived to rescue me.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I will sift through everything and sort something out.

DeBe · Guru

I wouldn't be keen to start a car with that Bosch altenator then disconnect the battery & drive out of a factory. Or any vehicle, heres 2 pages from a Ford workshop manual. It is the same altenator in the PDF file posted. Specificly says do not disconnect the battery with engine running. (this has the Zenner diodes in it)

03_Troopy · Guru

DeBe wrote:
I wouldn't be keen to start a car with that Bosch altenator then disconnect the battery & drive out of a factory. Or any vehicle, heres 2 pages from a Ford workshop manual. It is the same altenator in the PDF file posted. Specificly says do not disconnect the battery with engine running. (this has the Zenner diodes in it)

Thanks for that Darryl. So the way it works is exessive voltage (above 14.4V) is clipped off the top of the waveform via the opposing reverse biased zener. That makes sense. My apologies Jaahn, I have learnt something new today.

Jaahn · Guru

Hi Troopy, DeBe, Dougwe, and all smile

It was not my intention to take over the thread Dougwe, sorry 'bout that. You may use diodes or zenners or even your you-but'e mini jumpstarter however you see fit ! hmm

I also say to DeBe that I do not recommend that either. Do what the manual says. Perhaps there are some other wrinkles unknown to us mere mortals.

Troopy I say it's a bad day when you don't learn anything new !

I guess I heard that story at a trade night and learnt about the new alternator zenner diodes quite a while back and have never spoken to anyone who had heard of them. In fact some people have flatly called me a li*r on the subject. I just thought it was worth throwing it in there to counter an incorrect statement made earlier and spread the knowledge to anyone who cares to listen.

jaahn

dorian · Guru

I confess that I've never seen zeners being used as rectifiers in alternators, or anywhere else for that matter. I learnt something in this thread. Thanks.

DeBe · Guru

These altenators were in Falcons & Commodores back in the late 80s. But I never took mutch notice of the circuit diagram until you mentioned it Jaahn. So ive learnt something today.

DeBe · Guru

.

-- Edited by DeBe on Tuesday 16th of February 2016 07:16:33 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

No oroblem with me jaahn. The more discussion the better.

I have no problem with taking over my topics, that said, I would never do a thing like that disbelief biggrin biggrin OR worse still go,

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Not me, no way wink

-- Edited by Dougwe on Tuesday 16th of February 2016 09:22:33 PM

mickm · Veteran Member

The m stands for milli or a thousand therefore 58000mAH is 58Ah. These will start a petrol car but not a 3.0 L diesel. I wanted to get one as a backup for my motorhome but was told by the seller to forget it.

Jaahn · Guru

mickm wrote:
The m stands for milli or a thousand therefore 58000mAH is 58Ah. These will start a petrol car but not a 3.0 L diesel. I wanted to get one as a backup for my motorhome but was told by the seller to forget it.

Hi smile

Correct almost. Actually a thousandth= 1/1000 biggrin However as Dorian has pointed out in that other thread the actual capacity of these devices, eg 58 Ahrs is completely ficticious. They just make the figures up. Perhaps 5.8 Ahrs would be too much even ! Who knows without testing.

The point for jump starting is that these style of lithium batteries can give out a short strong burst of current without much drop in the voltage so they do work. Perhaps some way to compare them will come along as there are lots of them now and who knows which are good and which are crap. Usual problem confuse

The old lead acid battery types do not work as well but are much heavier and bulkier and need to be topped up more often, and a good one cost more.

Jaahn

mickm · Veteran Member

The topic has sparked my interest again. I see that they are now advertising 68800mAh units but the fine print, and this is a cut and paste,

2015 new upgraded high power Car Jump Starter.

It can start car with gasoline displacement up to 4.0L and diesel engine up to 2.5L.
Your great assistant and it's a needments in summer holidays!

Diesels up to 2.5 L so no good for most.

mickm · Veteran Member

Picky picky picky.

Yes you are correct the milli does mean 1/1000 but in common language it also references 1000 eg millipede, the famous Mille Miglia is a 1000 miles race, we make reference to us being in the third millennium etc, etc

Picky, picky, picky

Dougwe asked the question about mAh in this context.

Have a nice day.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Thankyou for your reply above Mick that we have discussed a little further. Also a big thankyou to everyone else for your comments.

Quickly, as I said above, a little experiment took place and worked. Not saying it will work on every vehicle but worked on a Izuzu Dmax.

Keep Safe on the roads.

ken thomas · Guru

Just make sure you are in the RACV
Ken

03_Troopy · Guru

ken thomas wrote:
Just make sure you are in the RACV
Ken

Not much help out in the bundu