A little puzzled...

rockylizard · Guru

A little puzzled...

WobblyNut · Senior Member

turtley agree with you John . Not only that , our vans Are totally empty

& the gas bottles are mt as well , so they are not fibbing when they

give 'ball weights' . "Would I lie to you".

moamajohn · Guru

Hey John, folks like us all have" free will " and that allows us to buy what feels good at the time and then chop and change ,customise,personalise and generally have fun within the parameters of our budget or imagination .I see no point in getting wound up about expectations of a manufacturers promises etc. I buy , I have fun ,I tire of something and I move on. Life is good .Cheers John

NeilandRaine · Guru

And another big design fault with the new Colorado is No CD player.
Some will say so what get an I something. A lot of us still like CD's and a lot do not have the knowledge to put all their songs on a memory stick.

JackoFJR · Senior Member

Some of us just like to modify our vehicles , I have just purchased a new Isuzu Dmax , I got a GVM upgrade before first rego because I know what my Hilux was well over GVM when loaded for a trip and I wanted to be legal with the Isuzu .
Because I like to do some real 4x4ing , I have fitted a Winch Bar, Winch , 2 x Diff Locks , Sidestep/sliders for a start .

I have never said any vehicle is the best , I don't believe there is a best of anything , already I have found a few things I don't like about the Dmax

Regards Jacko

Radar · Guru

I totally agree but they are pretty average with a load. I own one good empty but loaded looks pretty darn average when loaded with caravan added

aussietraveller · Guru

Hi John I would be interested in knowing which vehicles you are talking about.

An even bigger issue is Caravan retailers selling vans which are totally unsuitable for the car that is trying to tow them, I recently saw at a caravan park a bit north of Sydney a Toyota corolla towing an 18 foot van and when I asked the owner if he had discussed the towing capacity of the car with the van dealer in Victoria he said it had not been mentioned even when he picked up the van with the corolla, this is totally wrong and incredibly unsafe I believe there needs to be a penalty for both car owner and van dealer in this type of situation.

And as John said vehicles that claim to meet ADR,s and need to be modified to do the job they were supposedly designed for should be upgraded at full cost to the seller of the vehicle.

rockylizard · Guru

aussietraveller wrote:
Hi John I would be interested in knowing which vehicles you are talking about.
~~~SNIP

Gday...

The vehicles I mentioned -

....the ever widening range of vehicles that have apparently been designed, built and sold as "workhorse" vehicles - capable of towing a decent weight AND with having a decent payload. "Tradie's Trucks" but with 'creature comforts' to make them a passably acceptable 'car'.

All the "utes"

Cheers - John

Plendo · Guru

John, you raise an interesting topic, and on the surface it looks as if they really are selling vehicles that are not fit for purpose.

Lets just look at the supposed high capacity diesel utes on the market, the Ranger, BT50, Colorado, Dmax, etc.

They are all rated to carry large payloads, and to tow large weights, yet when they are pressed into service it becomes clear that aspects like the rear suspension struggle at the rated capacity.

Now think of the dilemma faced by the manufacturer, they know the vast majority of buyers will never get anywhere near the rated maximum load, they also know that suspension to carry the rated load well makes the vehicle ride like an army tank.

Solution, fit suspension which is just capable at the rated load, but gives a much better ride with lighter loads.

They know fine well the limitations of the suspension, and I bet there is a caution somewhere in the users manual, to the effect that extended use at maximum capacity requires the rear suspension to be upgraded.

TheHeaths · Veteran Member

John,

I suspect that it is due to a number of reasons.

1) As Plendo says, the manufacturer didn't expect many to get near the rated limit when they were first introduced, as they were work vehicles.

2) The fairly recent interest in having these vehicles for tow work, due to the rated weights.

3) The continued size increase as vans become bigger and heavier as we demand more of the home in the van, requiring a higher rated tow limit.

4) The price advantage many of them hold over the "traditional" large wagon 4x4 tow vehicle now.

5) The main one in my mind, the lack of knowledge about weights, limits and towing by a majority of the public. We on the various fora are only a small proportion of the van owning/towing public, and I honestly doubt, seeing many of the rigs out there, that many outside of a forum know/care or have any idea about weight limits and how they affect their vehicles.

That's my opinion anyway.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

How,

Rocky, you raise a good point but someone has chucked the key away from that gismo you seem to be locked in mate, sorry biggrin

Now, me, well, I have one of said vehicles and love it, my opinion only. Yes I got it cos of the towing capacity etc etc and yes it did the job however, I added an extra leaf to the each side of rear springs as it just added that little "extra". Why did I do it confuse cos I could I spose. Feels a lot better in the bum end too.

It's a bit like getting a job done and you get asked to fill out a survey on the service you got. Yesterday I had a lock changed on the rear window of the canopy of my Collie as it was not working as it should. Holden did the job as it is a Holden Canopy. They text me today to give a score out of 10 as to their treatment/service. I sent back 9.5. They then rang me and asked why only 9.5? What could they do for me to give them the 10. I took .5 off as I had to wait 2 hours only to be told it was going to be another 2 hours due to a problem. No drama. I was very happy with the service I got really. Now, why this paragraph confuse There is ALWAYS room for improvement.

Having said all that, Even though IMO I have a great car, it can always be improved on in some way.

John Heddles · Member

Why is it, then, that more folks don't opt for the light/medium truck option ? Obviously, sprung connections are the go but payload and towing is a doddle ..

JackoFJR · Senior Member

When you do modify your vehicle you effect the warranty, I had a CV break on my Dmax at less than 9000k . I just replaced it myself
But when I went in for my 10k service , I asked about warranty, only to be told Isuzu wouldn't cover it and someone else had broken a CV but he was 4whee driving , claim denied. 4wding in a 4x4,who would do such a thing .

You might be surprised what they might blame on non std suspension , bull bar , winch . I reckon because of my diff locks my whole drive train would now not be covered .

The Doo crew · Senior Member

Rear driveshaft fell out on the Hilux after the uni joint broke, 3 000kms on the clock, Toyota rejected it as a claim as in had "driven it in water" greater that 250mm deep. That was the start of 3 years of constant trips back to the dealership for repairs, clutch, flywheel, injectors & pump, both rear wheel bearings, rear spring replacement, gearbox rebuild 3 times & a transfer case replacement. After only 70 000kms in three years as it spent more time being repaired than driven, I gave up and bought a motorhome.

JackoFJR · Senior Member

John Heddles wrote:
Why is it, then, that more folks don't opt for the light/medium truck option ? Obviously, sprung connections are the go but payload and towing is a doddle ..

Those towing the larger vans probably should have a truck . I only tow a Tvan with my Dmax , 1250kg that's enough

there is no way I would want to tow anywhere near 3.5T .

How many times have ya heard it said I tow 2.5T behind my Dual Cab , what ever , and don't even know it's there , bull I know my Tvan is there .

gandk · Senior Member

Hi In Dec 2012 after a mechanic killed our V8 Fairlane we needed another vehicle to tow our 16.6' Sterling pop top. Not too heavy but decided to look at the new "you beaut" BT50, Ranger, DMax etc. All the comfy trucks that carry the stated 3.5 or whatever. We stupidly believed the Mazda dealer that the BT50 would carry 3.5t. When you look in the handbook it actually says 3.2t. We haven't done a lot of trips but with the Black widow storage and the engel in the back and our little sterling on the back (with hardly any extra weight) our springs began to sag badly. Took the entire unit to where we get our servicing done and they weighed it all. They said no problem with the weight at all and contacted Mazda. They wouldn't do anything about the springs because " the ute is only designed to carry the weight in the rear of the vehicle from point to point and then taken out, not to be kept in the rear" So what tradie would take out their gear every night after work. Apparently the new BT,s and the Rangers have "now" upgraded the springs and told the truth that they do only carry 3.2t not the 3.5t. No compensation for those of us who were lied to.

Kim

the rocket · Guru

NeilandRaine wrote:
And another big design fault with the new Colorado is No CD player.
Some will say so what get an I something. A lot of us still like CD's and a lot do not have the knowledge to put all their songs on a memory stick.

Hi, I agree. and I do not know how to set the radio to just the stations I like so I drive in silence. gives me the sh@ts.

Dav4Cris · Senior Member

We bought a Colorado LTR, from the moment we hooked up our Jayco Sterling I knew I needed to upgrade the rear suspension. I put in a set of 40mm raised constant 300kg springs, bushes and new gas shocks. This made a world of difference, yes it does ride harder when the van is off but I lower the tyre pressure in the ute if we are staying for awhile. We do have 300kg in rear at all time, fridge, toolbox and other stuff. When I first put them in and took it for a drive empty it was like no suspension. When I was looking into the rear suspension upgrade all suppliers stated that normal suspension in dual cab utes where for ride not carrying capacity.

rainy1850 · Senior Member

I totally agree. I miss my cd player

PeterD · Guru

gandk wrote:
We stupidly believed the Mazda dealer that the BT50 would carry 3.5t. When you look in the handbook it actually says 3.2t.

There is no way the BT-50 will carry 3.5 t. The 2011 and later models only have a GVM of 3200 kg. The tare weights of the various models are around 2.0 t. That means they can carry only 1200kg or thereabouts.

Bruce and Bev · Guru

regards the CDs - we have about 200 of them..are we supposed to spend days recording them onto a memory stick and then turf the CDs away - bugger off !!

I replaced the original radio in my car with one I bought from JB HIFI - huge selection and plenty that do radio, CD, memory sticks and boil a coffee - I only got one that cost me about $200 - it was a Kenwood which is regarded as a good brand and then paid another $100 to have it installed (I have 10 left fingers when it comes to fiddly work like swapping out radios etc)

pomme · Senior Member

I thought that Mazda"s, D-Max,Ranger, Colorado, and such were only rated to carry approx one ton but were capable of towing up to three ton and a bit.
I'm probable wrong though.
Pomme.

03_Troopy · Guru

I bought a car stereo without a CD player specifically. No point in a 4WD where it gets full of dust and grit and damages CD's. But it does have 2 USB inputs and a front AUX input. Much better having my music on USB sticks. Plug one in and set to random play and you have thousands of songs ready to go. Beats fumbling around with CDs while you drive.

As far as time taken encoding, yeah it can be tedious, but once you set up your software it's just a case of inserting a CD, click on the compress icon and in about 10 mins it's done and stored in appropriate folders as per your configuration. I usually encode mine while watching telly. I use MediaMonkey Gold to manage the collection and use Exact Audio Copy (EAC) to do the encoding. I also embed album covers into the MP3, so when I want to load up a USB drive, it's just a case of browse the collection and right click on an album cover to transfer it to the USB drive.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

pomme wrote:
I thought that Mazda"s, D-Max,Ranger, Colorado, and such were only rated to carry approx one ton but were capable of towing up to three ton and a bit.
I'm probable wrong though.
Pomme.

How,

Yep, the Collie anyway has a payload of 1t but remember the tow ball weight has to be included in that. For example, my CV has a tow ball weight of 250kg so that has to be included in the 1t so I only really can put 750kg inside the Collie.

Graden · Veteran Member

We have a 2011 Ford Ranger 4x2 diesel dual cab, towing a 2014 22.6 Swift Explorer 2 axle. With the ute loaded with items extra to the van, the van connected to the ute and the correct towball weight, the complete unit sits on the road level. The ute suspension is standard, a little harsh empty, but loaded with van is good. In my humble opinion, probably some owners are unaware of how much weight they are placing on the vehicle suspension when loaded with the van attached. Maybe they are over the towball limit as well. Its a good idea to weigh the van tow hitch with the van loaded ready to go, it could surprise you with how much overweight it is.

JU-AL · Member

I agree with Graden. we are new to this caravanning world. After some very informative info that we got from attending some info sessions at the caravan and camping expo,
we got our set up rig weighed before setting off on a week end away. we had full water tanks and gas bottles. we were just ok with a van half full of food and clothes!
it is all very well to have the fancy van with plenty of storage space, but in reality you can't fill it and be the legal towing weight. . we are a long load and need to be aware of the responsibility that entails for safety.
sorry for ranting on but on our limited travels we have seen some pretty hair raising set ups and wonder at their safety.
we found the information we got from the talks at the expo invaluable, even to how to travel out west with the huge long road trains, and the road curtesy rules for passing etc.
the more knowledge you get the safer we all are,
happy and safe travels, Judy

grahos · Guru

I agree after throwing everything in the rig then we need to go to the weighbridge after checking the towball weight.
It is too late when you are pulled over to a truck weighbridge,

why,what do you do with the excess before you can drive off with fine intact.

-- Edited by grahos on Thursday 21st of May 2015 03:22:33 PM

D and D · Guru

The specifications for these vehicles is freely available and easily accessible on the manufacturers web sites and its not difficult for prospective buyers to perform due diligence on the vehicle they intend purchasing before committing to it - there is no need to rely on the advice of the salesman or the bloke down the street, your local mechanic or even the experts on forums such as this. Go to the web sites and check the vehicle specifications.

I bought a 2013 Mazda BT 50 in 2013. I started looking in 2012 at which time the majority of these dual cab utes had towing capacities of just over 3 tonne and a payload of around the one tonne mark both of which where clearly stated on the manufacturers' websites (eg:www.mazda.com.au/cars/bt-50-4x4-dual-cab/price-and-specification/). In late 2012 Mazda and Ford announced that the 2013 model of the BT 50 and Ranger would have a strengthened chassis and other modifications to enable the towing capacity to be increased to 3.5 tonnes and the GVM to 3.2 tonnes. The 2013 model weighs in at 2.061 tonnes tare giving a payload of 1.139 tonnes. The ball weight is 350 kg.

This information can be a little confusing since you can't tow 3.5 tonne and carry the 1.139 tonne payload at the same time as this will exceed the CVM of 6.0 tonne so there has to be a compromise made between what is being towed and what is being carried. My van weighs between 3.2 and 3.4 tonne and I carry about 0.7 tonne in the ute and this is getting close to the maximum stated capacity but I haven't felt the need to modify the ute from standard and while there is some rear end sag when the van is attached it's not enough for me to go racing off to ARB or Pedders or similar to have a couple of grand of mods made to the suspension but I know many who have. If problems start appearing in towing characteristics I will consider upgrading the suspension but I'll probably wait until the warranty period is over.

Regards

Dave