Freedom Camping web site & survey

Ozzie_Traveller · Senior Member

G'day all

The second Quarterly Report into the Freedom Camping national survey has been put together and is now up for perusal at:-
https://sites.google.com/site/FreedomCampingAustralia

Over the past few months, our small team of volunteers has talked to around 200 RV fellow travellers in various eastern states and got survey returns from most of them. The resulting report and charts detailing age groups, RV 'travelling equipment', length of time on-the-wallaby and expenditure along the way etc etc are all in the report too

Goldfinger · Senior Member

Excellent!.....if only CP's would remember the successful business adage...'.the customer may not always be right....however the customer always remains the customer.'........well done...Hoo Roo

Bruce and Bev · Guru

didn't know this site existed till reading this - there seem to be so many other sites catering to nomads, but I (and I suspect many others) only find out about them when theres a specific post about one of them.

Maybe someone who has a "collection" of nomad sites can post up their site url's so the rest of use can join:)))

BTW - A great site Phil...........doing a fantastic (and unpaid job!

peter1 · Veteran Member

Thanks Phil for this - you have absolutely nailed it and I am so glad that there is a group (small) prepared to do the hard yards of preparing "real" data to ensure a balanced discussion can be had on this issue. I hope the numerous subscribers on this forum will also support your great work. I have bush camped for many many years now and originally my wife was very hesitant about the idea. After 2 weeks on the road she was the one wanting to bypass c'van parks. It really is a way of life and I certainly will support your efforts to protect that right now and in the future. It is interesting to note that in Victoria national parks have jacked up their prices in recent time after an external consultant review was undertaken - those prices now reflect what many c'parks charge - $35 per night and you might get a pit toilet thrown in for that price - I have emailed parks Victoria complaining about the charges and was told to take it up with my local member. My email in reply was a question to Parks Victoria which said that given I did not intend to pay such a high fee but would happily pay $10pay per night as previously - what process was in place to prosecute any offenders who refused to pay $35 per night - still waiting for a reply 6 weeks later.

I would be pleased to complete one of your surveys when we return from our next trip planned for Feb/March to the south coast of NSW - hopefully free camping or if necessary in national parks but certainly not c'parks for all the reasons stated in your survey.

I believe this forum is an excellent one to voice our views in support of your actions - if we don't, we stand to lose part of our heritage to move freely in this great country of ours.

Thank you, and your small team, again for all your effort.

Regards

Peter

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Well said Peter1 - we need to support this , by doing a survey or volunteering, seems someone doing something, so we need to do what we can.

Ozzie_Traveller · Senior Member

G'day all

Thanks for your responses
Anyone who wants a survey form can email us & we'll send you some PDFs for you to print out & post back to us

email = FreeCampingSurvey @ Gmail.com ... remove the spaces !!

Phil

Ozzie_Traveller · Senior Member

G'day all

Just thought i'd share some items from the survey results to date

The team has got survey respondes from Qld - NSW - Vic & Tas so far ~ and we're always looking for helpers who have a bit of spare time while they're travelling this great southern land

One of the biggest criticisms from the CP lobby made of 'free-campers' is that as a group, we don't support the town's traders
Here's the chart showing daily expenditure from our survey respondents

And here's the answer to "what %age of 'Free-camping' do you do as you travel ...

ps- the survey volunteers are talking to travellers staying in locations as listed in the CAW camps book
This does mean that we are 'talking to the converted' ... but we figure, 'is that any different from the CP lobby only talking to CP park users?'

There's heaps more on the web site
Phil

madaboutled · Guru

I think this topic should be made a Sticky because its such an important issue that affects all of us Grey Nomads who choose and want the freedom to free camp, thus it needs to be kept in full view, easy to find and see. Hopefully the Webmaster will agree and show their support for such a worthwhile issue.

Big Gorilla · Guru

Ozzie_Traveller wrote:
G'day all

Thanks for your responses
Anyone who wants a survey form can email us & we'll send you some PDFs for you to print out & post back to us

email = FreeCampingSurvey @ Gmail.com ... remove the spaces !!

Phil

Postage is out of date. I can't remember what a Post Office looks like !!! biggrin biggrin biggrin Can you upload the Survey pdf file in this sub forum for us to download and complete. We can then scan and e-mail back to you.

gordon_adl · Senior Member

I completely disagree. Not every grey nomad equates traveling to a demand for free camping. Indeed it appears this forum has been hijacked for years now by those who only preach for freecamping. If one has any slight notion to disagree they get bullied, name called, ridiculed and who knows what else.

Nowhere on Cindy's site does it say one must be pro free camping. Some of the advertising on here is for paid accommodation.

Look up the very definition of a grey nomad...http://www.greynomadsaustralia.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86:what-is-a-grey-nomad&catid=35:articles-page&Itemid=18

I think it's quite possible why this forum has regressed into a 'us against them 'fight-a-thon'

Perhaps those who are looking for a place to purely advance free camping and only have like minded individuals speak then a forum and website ought to be created for them. Until then, I don't think it's fair that those who think there is a 'war' against paid accommodation should come on here and think that they speak for all grey nomads.

How many times has Cindy said this forum is for everyone, not just one type of people.

madaboutled wrote:
I think this topic should be made a Sticky because its such an important issue that affects all of us Grey Nomads who choose and want the freedom to free camp, thus it needs to be kept in full view, easy to find and see. Hopefully the Webmaster will agree and show their support for such a worthwhile issue.

madaboutled · Guru

gordon_adl wrote:

Look up the very definition of a grey nomad...http://www.greynomadsaustralia.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86:what-is-a-grey-nomad&catid=35:articles-page&Itemid=18

That's OK Gordon that's your view and you're more than entitled to it. But, last I knew Australia was a democratic society we strive on people having different opinions, no body's arguing here we're simply stating a case for the protection of our freedom of choice. So, for the benefit of "The Spontaneous - Grey Nomad" who Quote: "live in various free rest stops for days on end, simply for the joy of experiencing travelling Australia without restraint, deadlines or boundaries." ...... again I ask can this topic be made a Sticky

And, if there was a topic that warranted being a Sticky for your type of demographic, who are we to object. After all as you say Gordon the Forum is for everyone. May I suggest you google the definition of a Forum, youll find that its not about one topic but many and its purpose is to engage discussion of those who are interested in the specific topic.

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Good reply "madaboutled" -(gunna call you "mel", ok?). Freedom of choice is what most of us advocate.

Santa · Guru

Free camping is becoming a real issue.

Seems a growing section of caravan/motor home owners feel its their right to set up camp wherever and whenever they feel inclined.

The Americans call it boondocking https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/emailscams_0905.pdf

(my favorite term) is typically FREE and means camping in remote areas without amenities like electricity, sewer connections or bathroom facilities (although we have seen some with vault toilets). Wild Camping is not for everybody but if youre willing to rough it a bit (or invest in some solar panels) it can save you a ton of money. This is our favorite type of camping because you are out in nature, no crowds and no rules other than leave no trace! - See more at: http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/free-camping#sthash.Gpvk459l.dpuf

I notice many of the complainers seem to think (its a right) they should be able to free camp within a short distance of city business centres, industrial areas, parks etc, in fact information is freely passed on about sites where you can "stealth camp" in other words camp illegally.

Its becoming a sub culture, people with very few assets somehow acquire a beat up old MH or caravan then live from one Centrelink payment to the next so they can move to the next camp.

Sensible and responsible free camping in outback area's is fine in most cases, however if you expect to drive in to a capital city and camp/spend the night wherever you deem suitable, think again, in most cases its not appropriate.

When free camping as a recreational activity changes to free camping because we don't have enough cash to do otherwise, there is a real problem.

Here's a pic of the sort of thing we can look forward to in the not to distant future.

-- Edited by Santa on Friday 13th of February 2015 12:27:42 PM

-- Edited by Santa on Friday 13th of February 2015 12:29:01 PM

gordon_adl · Senior Member

So based on that logic I would like a a sticky added to the forum, something along the lines of a council need NOT provide free camping for it to be considered RV friendly.

A sticky is a subject that affects all members of a forum. Free camping is not an issue for many grey nomads. By having opposing stickes it then leads to politics, as you're apparently either pro or anti free camping. It then becomes a political issue and as we all know, Cindy does not want politics to be discussed on this forum.

A forum is a place for like minded individuals to discuss options. In this forum, the 'like minded' is regarding being grey nomads. Again, nowhere on here is there a prerequisite one must be all for free camping.

Just for the record and as I've stated more times than I can recall, I'm all for free camping.

What I'm against is bullying towns and councils who don't provide it. I am against the term 'forced' to go to a caravan park. Nobody is forced, if one doesn't find a place adequate to their needs then just move on. It's really that simple. I'm against calling councils scrounges and other sorts and I'm against calling caravan parks thieves and other related names.

madaboutled wrote:
again I ask can this topic be made a Sticky

Santa · Guru

gordon_adl wrote:
So based on that logic I would like a a sticky added to the forum, something along the lines of a council need NOT provide free camping for it to be considered RV friendly.
A sticky is a subject that affects all members of a forum. Free camping is not an issue for many grey nomads. By having opposing stickes it then leads to politics, as you're apparently either pro or anti free camping. It then becomes a political issue and as we all know, Cindy does not want politics to be discussed on this forum.
A forum is a place for like minded individuals to discuss options. In this forum, the 'like minded' is regarding being grey nomads. Again, nowhere on here is there a prerequisite one must be all for free camping.
Just for the record and as I've stated more times than I can recall, I'm all for free camping.
What I'm against is bullying towns and councils who don't provide it. I am against the term 'forced' to go to a caravan park. Nobody is forced, if one doesn't find a place adequate to their needs then just move on. It's really that simple. I'm against calling councils scrounges and other sorts and I'm against calling caravan parks thieves and other related names.

madaboutled wrote:
again I ask can this topic be made a Sticky

Why would you make a "sticky" out of a topic that frequently promotes illegal/controversial activity.

Webmaster · Guru

Thanks for the suggestion to make this topic a ‘sticky’. Although I understand that the results of the survey mentioned in this thread is important to many members, we already have quite a number of ‘sticky’ topics at the top of the forum and we’re keen to keep these to minimum so that more dynamic threads can be viewed and added to. We do have a dedicated subforum entitled ‘Free/budget campsites suggested by our contributors’ that members can refer to and add to if they are looking for a free or budget campsite in a particular area or if they know of one that they would like to recommend.

madaboutled · Guru

Webmaster wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion to make this topic a sticky. Although I understand that the results of the survey mentioned in this thread is important to many members, we already have quite a number of sticky topics at the top of the forum and were keen to keep these to minimum so that more dynamic threads can be viewed and added to. We do have a dedicated subforum entitled Free/budget campsites suggested by our contributors that members can refer to and add to if they are looking for a free or budget campsite in a particular area or if they know of one that they would like to recommend.

Thanks for that clarification, seems Ive ruffled a few feathers for my request. So, apologies to all concerned if I have unintentionally offended any members for such a request that Im like many very passionate about. I can therefore only hope that the continuing healthy debate be it for or against will in itself help keep the topic on top.

Regards to all - Steve

Santa · Guru

madaboutled wrote:
Webmaster wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion to make this topic a sticky. Although I understand that the results of the survey mentioned in this thread is important to many members, we already have quite a number of sticky topics at the top of the forum and were keen to keep these to minimum so that more dynamic threads can be viewed and added to. We do have a dedicated subforum entitled Free/budget campsites suggested by our contributors that members can refer to and add to if they are looking for a free or budget campsite in a particular area or if they know of one that they would like to recommend.

Thanks for that clarification, seems Ive ruffled a few feathers for my request. So, apologies to all concerned if I have unintentionally offended any members for such a request that Im like many very passionate about. I can therefore only hope that the continuing healthy debate be it for or against will in itself help keep the topic on top.

Regards to all - Steve

G'Day Steve,

You certainly haven't ruffled my feathers, nothing wrong with robust debate as long as things remain civil. smile

brickies · Guru

I like free camping has much has anybody , But we should not rubbish a town just because it does not provide free camping , You will never see free camping every where , We are still very lucky the numbers of free camps we have , If you want to go to the Gold coast you will have to pay to stay in a Caravan Park . ALSO were would they put a free camp site in the Middle of Sydney . Please don't bag towns just because they won't let us free camp it's not a good look and gives us a bad name .

Santa · Guru

brickies wrote:
I like free camping has much has anybody , But we should not rubbish a town just because it does not provide free camping , You will never see free camping every where , We are still very lucky the numbers of free camps we have , If you want to go to the Gold coast you will have to pay to stay in a Caravan Park . ALSO were would they put a free camp site in the Middle of Sydney . Please don't bag towns just because they won't let us free camp it's not a good look and gives us a bad name .

Well said Brickies. smile

madaboutled · Guru

Please someone correct me here if I'm wrong, but, my interpretation of the Freedom of Choice lobby is not about "set up camp wherever and whenever or you feel inclined" OR bagging or bullying a town or council because it doesnt have a low or no cost camping facility it's about preserving the existing legal designated low or no cost camping areas and lobbying councils to create new ones if they can around the country, to allow low or no cost camping areas available to the travelling public within their boundries.

This in turn should bring an additional financial benefit to the local community as a whole where the facility exists. One part of the Freedom of Choice survey is to bring to the attention of towns and councils factual results of want the Grey Nomad community are currently bringing to their communities. This is being done in a supporting argument against what the Caravan Parks Association/s currently claim.

The Freedom of Choice lobby is a predominate push to lobby against those business and associations that want the low or no cost camping areas closed purely for their own financial benefit. Such closures may in turn give us no choice to use services or facilities that we may not need thus taking away our Freedom of Choice. Its not about bullying councils or businesses as wrongly claimed, its about standing up for our rights and for us not being bullied ourselves into using or paying for services that we dont need or want.

The Caravan Parks Association/s already have a documents in the public arena suggesting councils to close low or no cost camping areas within a 20 kilometre radius of an existing caravan park. Should this be implemented it would be the end of many legal designated low or no cost camping areas around the country.

It's easy to say if you don't like it move on to the next town but in Australia as you know the next town may be 200k plus and still not have the services that we may require. Especially for those who travel with Pets. Not all caravan parks take pets and not all towns have boarding kennels, so catch 22. That said responsible pet owners respect the rules and don't camp in low or no cost camping areas where pets are not permitted.

Its ludicrous to think that low cost or no cost camping areas would be available everywhere for example cities and or major town centres. But, one would hope that the results of the Freedom of Choice Survey, could if anything help influence businesses such as caravan parks, to change their way of thinking and provide some sites with lower cost alternatives generally focused toward the Grey Nomad travellers, who dont need or want the extras that they are expected to pay for.

Doing nothing could mean the inevitable closure of some of our favourite legal designated low or no cost camping areas around the country, unless we stand up for our Freedom of Choice and support the efforts of these volunteers dedicating their time to preserve our life style.

We can never stop those who flaunt the system and use "legal" low cost or no cost camping areas, not for what they were designed for, but this then falls on the councils to enforce their existing (or new) regulations which I'm sure they can and will do. In general I would say that the majority of Grey Nomad travellers only use appropriate "legal" low cost or no cost camping areas whilst following their dream.

As far as the American argument goes, one first needs to consider how their welfare system works, which in many cases from my point of view leaves a lot to be desired. Their system forces people to do what they have to do just to survive. What would you want these people to do? You just can't compare America to Australia our systems are totally different and it is not the topic of this debate.

Regards Steve.

gordon_adl · Senior Member

Steve,

I don't think you've ruffled any feathers, certainly not mine anyway. And I commend you for keeping a very civil temperament. Me personally, I think it's fine to be passionate about anything. But there is a big difference between being passionate, and being a bully.

In the past, on this forum, I've been bullied, threatened and lied about by many. Some will think I'm just returning to this forum, but I've never left. I've still logged on nearly daily but just stopped posting because of the so called 2% who only see things their way or the highway. It seems that lately it's starting to be a much more civil place to be and read now.

madaboutled wrote:
seems Ive ruffled a few feathers for my request. So, apologies to all concerned if I have unintentionally offended any members for such a request that Im like many very passionate about.

Regards to all - Steve