Flags2 wrote:

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Hello fellow travellers!  I am so looking forward to 'conversing' with you but I need some expert advice please - I am the researcher in our duo.  We know what we want in our van (have not decided on the source though) but we know we'll need 3.5 tonnes towing capability.  Our vehicle budget is <$80 and we want a diesel.  So far I have narrowed it down to a used landcruiser VX (Sahara is too expensive) or a Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT but am open to the wisdom of experience out there. A comfortable ride over long distances is really important but obviously safety is paramount.  I have read that the cruiser can be a bit unstable cornering if top-loaded with gear (eg roof racks or pods).  My husband is 6'4" and I am 5'3" so grab rails are an absolute must for me and legroom and headroom are a must for him. He understands all the Gross Vehicle mass criteria (that's how we calculated we'd need 3.5tonnes towing capacity) so that's all OK.  I'd like to hear about the vehicles I've noted and obviously, any that aren't that would meet our criteria.  

Thank you for listening. Have an absolutely fantastic 2015.

Cheers

Robyn

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 Gday...

Firstly welcome to the forum. You will get many and varied opinions on which is the better vehicle - all of them will be quite valid.

I will openly state upfront my bias is to the Land Rover Discovery 3/4.

I have a Discovery 3 and it meets your criteria -

• <$80 - Discovery 3 from $40k and you would get a very good low Km Discovery 4 for $80k
• 3.5t towing capacity - definitely
• Diesel - choice of 2.7ltr (430Nm) or 3.0ltr (600Nm) - 6 speed auto.
• Provides a VERY comfortable ride over long distances, over any terrain - is very "car-like" on AND off road.
• Discovery 3 has 4star ANCAP rating - Disco very 4 5star rating
• Discovery is an extremely stable vehicle - in all circumstances.
• Excellent "liveability"  Great headroom, back/forward/up/down seat adjustment.
• Access is excellent - the electronic air suspension has an "access height" which lowers it to 'normal' car level - it has grab handles but you won't need them.
• Economy - 8.5ltr/100km not towing (110kph cruising) ... 13.5-14.5ltr/100km towing 2,600Kg van (sitting on 90kph)
• Despite the heated discussion it will probably provoke, does not need WDH (and not recommended by Land Rover).

Ignore the screams of "unreliable" - I bought mine with 70,000km .. now has 170,000km. I travel full-time and I have not had a single problem that has caused me to be stuck on the side of the road, or holed up somewhere waiting for parts. I have not met face-to-face any Discovery 3/4 owner who is not happy with their vehicle.

Dealer network - limited to only major cities. Although, I have not had any trouble getting service from 'independents' and others when needed. If you buy one, take out Land Rover Aussie Assist roadside service. About $150/year and I know they provide excellent coverage and service if needed.

I have owned Fairlanes, HiLux, Landcruisers (60, 80 and 100 series), Hyundai Terracan. The Discovery is the best car I have owned; the best 4X4 I have owned; the best tow vehicle I have owned.

Simply add a Discovery 3 or 4 to you list of "vehicles I must drive" ... you will not be disappointed.

BUT !! .... please remember whatever vehicle you choose it must be what YOU want and need. You are wise doing the research and 99% of vehicles on the market will do most (if not all) of what you want ... and EVERY make/model of vehicle has a problem - have suffered recalls - have diehard fans - have diehard detractors. Every vehicle made since about 2005 has electronic gadgetry ... and all service centres, no matter where they are located, for any modern vehicle, don't carry spare parts other than "service consumables". If something outside a 'normal service' occurs you will wait from 24hours to a week for delivery of the part.

Lots of luck - I don't envy you the process. I would hate to try to find something to replace my Discovery - I just love it and there is very little on the market that better meets my needs.

OH ... and a big apology for my long-winded post ... I can't help myself sometimes  

Cheers - John

  NOT long winded at all RL, very informative post, you say your biased, but your bias, is based on your proven facts and service provided by your vehicle, I must admit i have always liked the look of them, and have driven a couple of the early models, and was very impressed, in the comfort of ride and the great visability

I think your reply to Flags2 will be very beneficial, and if I was them, I would include the 3 or 4 Disco, in my short list, for sure, as Although the Cruiser seems to be The Vehicle of Choice, and have proven to be Capable and Reliable, They are still NOT without problems, and are also very expensive to repair,

I am Not in the market for a New Tow Vehicle, But if i was at this point in time i Like the Ford Ranger / Mazda type utes, However I would Not rush out and by one, without at least giving the Disco's a good investigation,?    Good post John, 

Welcome to the forum Robyn.

With the question you posed, I expect you will get many and varied responses but in the end the choice is of course yours.

And I will also declare a very strong bias right up front, I tow with a Landrover Discovery 4, and in my humble opinion it is the best vehicle available on the Australian market to tow  heavy van. Now that my bias is out in the open I will tell you why I drive a Disco.

We started the process of preparing to be Grey Nomad a bit over three years ago, initially we looked at medium sized vans (18 - 19 foot), then we started to look at 5th wheelers, and we were keen on the idea of a 5th, until I thought about using a long ute in every day life, I am still working so the long ute just did not make sense.

We then went back to look at caravans, and after a lot of research we settled for a Retreat Brampton, which we planned to build to be totally independent, which we eventually did by adding a lot of solar, big lithium batteries, etc. We now have a van where we can do things like run our air con when free camping without starting a generator.

Once the van was chosen it dictated the capability require din the tow vehicle, it had to be capable of towing 3.5T, and it had to be comfortable. This narrowed our field to very few vehicles:

Landcruiser 200 series, discounted for a number of reasons, real problems with payload, terrible fuel economy, basically it is an old vehicle that has been updated. Old technology.

Jeep Grand Cherokee, nice diesel, a lot of vehicle for the price, but unfortunately I was not comfortable with the vehicle dynamics, I just felt too remote from what was happening, as in lack of feel. I described it at the time as being like ridding in a lounge chair on top of an air matress on top of a billy cart. Also running cost, and repair cost concerns, just could not get answers from the dealer around service costs etc.

VW Toureg, a great vehicle, lovely to drive, more bells and whistles than any of its competitors. But everything said towing was an after thought. When driving it did not feel as if it would have the authority to manage a large van on the road.

Disco 4, as soon as we drove it we knew it was the right vehicle for the job. It was designed as a tow vehicle, and towing is just written into its DNA.

The 2013 & 14 models have the u speed box, which improves driveability and economy, we tow our van which weighs 3.4T loaded and sits high on independent suspension, our typical economy towing is under 14l/100k, the worst we have seen was almost 16.

And it fits your price range, as the 2014 Discovery 4 is available new from $79,990, and that is before you do any bargaining.

When we were looking we struggled to spend the money to buy the Disco, the thing that made up our minds was the realisation that we would be driving the vehicle EVERY day, and how much better it would be if it was a vehicle that was comfortable and capable.

Good luck with your decision.

I think it would be fair to point out that NONE of the vehicles you would be looking at are included in the model lineups to which the Cars America reliability statistics are based.

The almost relevant SUVs in the model line ups all have large Petrol V8s.

If you went by reliability charts we would all drive Honds, as they top the Australian charts by a long way, being almost twice as reliable as Toyotas.

-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:44:05 PM

Gday...

    Understand where ya comin' from Snail ....

While you are plunging into the depths of Mr Google's archives, check out which vehicles have had the most recalls in 2013/2014 - in any country you wish to choose. That just may surprise you ... but they are not model specific but "manufacturer" attributed.

Unfortunately, these "reliability surveys" are not model specific either. In fact, they carry about as much weight as which car is voted "4X4 of the year". I again remind of my comments earlier before we are all drowned in ultimately meaningless stats -

"BUT !! .... please remember whatever vehicle you choose it must be what YOU want and need. You are wise doing the research and 99% of vehicles on the market will do most (if not all) of what you want ... and EVERY make/model of vehicle has a problem - have suffered recalls - have diehard fans - have diehard detractors. Every vehicle made since about 2005 has electronic gadgetry ... and all service centres, no matter where they are located, for any modern vehicle, don't carry spare parts other than "service consumables". If something outside a 'normal service' occurs you will wait from 24hours to a week for delivery of the part."

One needs to remember that the purchase of a vehicle will involve research, opinion-seeking, hands-on examination, price .. and then the final decision will usually be an "emotional" one .... I like it ..... why? ...well .... COZ 

Cheers - happy evaluation, decision making and ultimate enjoyment in the choice - John

Hi Guys,

I am a National Fleet Maintenance Manager, with a company that has 650 trucks and 400 cars of all makes and models including Land Rovers. What I am showing her, is based on fact. Yours are based on opinions. As to recalls, I will get one every other week for our trucks, this does not mean they are unreliable or not safe.    By the way I'm not recommending any make of vehicle. 

Cheers Snail

Hi Robyn,

I do have a prejudice against Land Rover when I was a young apprentice my apprentice master love them and I spent a good part of 4 years repairing them. I would go bush on weekends in my Land Rover spend the rest of the week repairing it and dreamed of owning a Suzuki LJ 80 or a Toyota FJ 40 

Cheers Snail                                                                                                                                                  

Sounds all too familiar!   It will be fun working it all out and reading all the inputs. My spread sheet is at Version 6 and I guess there's more to come.  Thanks for your input.  Jeep, Amorak, Mazda BT-50, they are all still there!  I have relegated a few to 'lower' rankings and eliminated a few (eg if no diesel option) but I never thought I'd be adding a Disco.   Many thanks.

Safe travels

Cheers

Robyn

Snail wrote:

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Hi Robyn,

I do have a prejudice against Land Rover when I was a young apprentice my apprentice master love them and I spent a good part of 4 years repairing them. I would go bush on weekends in my Land Rover spend the rest of the week repairing it and dreamed of owning a Suzuki LJ 80 or a Toyota FJ 40 

Cheers Snail                                                                                                                                                  

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Gday...

Geez Snail .. ya hold a grudge for a fair while mate ... that was at least 40 years ago. 

Surely you realise that EVERY vehicle they were making then has changed considerably. Some aren't even being made at all now

Cheers - John

Hi Flags2.

We started with a Land Rover 2 TD5 great vehicle brought it when it was about 8 years old had lots of good times, then we grew to disliking loading the station wagon up with our extras like fishing gear, extra seats, extra frig and the list goes on.

So after a 3 month trip we come home for a short break when we took the opportunities to look at alternatives.  After a couple of test drives a debate about this and that we decided a crew cab would work for us as we had already previously owned one and liked it. I knew we did not want to go back wards, comfort was high on the list, we did not need the 3.5 towing but be warned it not what it sounds like eg towing 3.5 leaves very little to put in the vehicle.

The end result for us was a Nissan Navara V6 TD 170 kw, 550 nm. Linked to a 7 speed auto,that more go then the rest of the crew cabs and more then most of the wagons performance wise. Comfort plus, great brakes, grab handles. Weak point back suspension needs improvement,  short range of fuel tank 500 ks. Both will be fixed by suspension up grade and a long range tank.

Fixed price service at 10 000 ks is good value.  All for under $60 000 new.

Discovery although old was great vehicle parts reasonable priced, longer service intervals and darn good on the road. Ralph

Plendo wrote:

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The 2013 & 14 models have the u speed box, which improves driveability and economy, we tow our van which weighs 3.4T loaded and sits high on independent suspension, our typical economy towing is under 14l/100k, the worst we have seen was almost 16.

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 Plendo, we are currently looking at what tug to replace our 200 series Landcruiser. So far have or found anything that meets all the criterions. Looked at a VW Toureg, but the good one is a lot more expensive. 

On the assumption that your fuel consumption is true, we will look at the Disco.

Larry

rockylizard wrote:

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Gday...

The fuel consumption for my Discovery 3 from 06 May 2010 to date.

The "Averages" relate to the headings shown.

 

[edit: clarification - where Km travelled exceeds Km shown in "Full Tank" I added a 20ltr Jerry can of fuel in that run]

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 3rd of January 2015 11:29:03 AM

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Hi John. Is this a spreadsheet you have developed? If so, is it one you would be willing to share? 

Gday...

Live full-time in the van. The van would be on tow at least 80% of the time.

Any consumption below 12ltr/100km would be without van - highway use. Interestingly, I get better consumption towing the van than driving around in city driving without the van 

Cheers - John

Gday...

At times when in a "city" - doing short runs of less than 3-4km at a time the poor motor never gets even warm 

Have you been into Melbourne/Sydney recently?  stop-go-stop-go-stop-go-stop-go ... really chews up the fossil fuel.

I stayed at South Werribee Van Park in Melbourne recently. Had to go from there to Preston and then onto Greensborough and back to South Werribee. According to the Landy's computer I got 10.3ltr/100km ... but that was so much freeway and major roads on a night. If I go into the city and stay away from freeways in 'peak' traffic it is hard to get better than 14ltr/100km.

Cheers - John