Well there is one thing here that is very obvious a that is the managment does not like the truth.
We try to draw attention to the reasons here for all the crap that goes on caused by a couple of people who continually take threads of topic a into an argument. Its also obvious just what happens; we get closed a the culprits are not chastised a allowed to fight another day.
So many threads closed that were not policital or religious (which I agree have no place here) before they could run their cause, meaning no end result was achieved so becomes a total waste of time a effort.
Reguarding the techie section I dont expect cindy to understand the technical side of topics . I believe that if this section is to continue as a respectable discusion of topics its time she had the assistance of a qualified technical person a not a member so as to pass judgement on topics that are not straight forward a rule on correctness a against incorrect information.
One thing all need to remember in this section is that all info be correct as wrong info can be dangerous a or deadly.
Like in any trade or business you can be held accountable for incorrect info. So many times there is a huge difference between right a wrong; your version a or opinion.
I almost left then thought I maight hang around a little longer but if this narrow minded attitude by self opinionated dictators on their soap boxes continues unchecked then I, m out.
JC.
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Be your self; there's no body better qualified ! "I came into this world with nothing , I still have most of it"
Your points are well taken, by me at least. Regarding technical advice, there was a thread recently where those that gave advice state their qualifications. There were quite a few responses. In any trade or profession you will always find a range of varying opinions and interpretations. You should evaluate all responses and try to ascertain which is correct however I hasten to add that an inexperienced person inquiring about a particular problem, may not have the knowledge to interpret or ascertain if the information given is correct. In this case, you should seek the advice of an outside qualified person. I made a post that I would not give advice to inquirers about how to install or repair parts of a 240 volt installation in a Motor Home or Caravan. My reasons were and still are that 240 installations should be installed and/or repaired by qualified and Licenced Electricians.
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Retired Airline Pilot and Electrician..
I'm not old, I've just been young a long time....Ken
Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
99.9% of us who contribute here do so for the right reasons - pass on info that might be of use to others (from making a cake, a neat place to see or camp, or advice of a technical nature) or make positive and pleasant (a few do neither which is why we have people like you getting so angry).
The Tech section should be viewed as it was meant to be. FREE advice from people who are either expert in that particular field or have had a practical experience of the subject. Anyone foolish enough to take this info at face value and go ahead and do it themselves are indeed foolish!! The person contributing the opinion has not actually seen the problem you might have, or you may not have explained it properly and their well meaning advice just might not be right for these two reasons.
And if you think theyre wrong and youre right, don't be an ass and slag them and their advice - post your own comments with denigrating others.
C'mon folks - lets not confirm to the new or younger members that we are indeed GRUMPY OLD MEN (and just once in a while, women).
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Cheers Bruce
The amazing things you see when nomading Australia
JC and others who have posted I agree entirely with what you say, people should post in good faith and with good intention to share knowledge.
If someone does see the need to correct something they believe to be wrong, then it should be done graciously, the person who posted something that may be incorrect was probably not aware of the shortcomings of their post.
Yes it's text and most pc's have spell check or correction .. Totally changing the way it's explained..
A humorous comment ( being text) may not come out that way.. Even if comment is finished with lol..
You can comment on "one part" of subject .. But doesn't nessessary be right over the whole subject..
I made a post that I would not give advice to inquirers about how to install or repair parts of a 240 volt installation in a Motor Home or Caravan. My reasons were and still are that 240 installations should be installed and/or repaired by qualified and Licenced Electricians.
Thereby holds the crux of the problem. People like Peter Q have the knowledge, skills and equally as important access to the electrical regs. We are getting many idiots who have less skills arguing against him. There are many who argue against him (and others) on safety things like "electrical jumper leads." Those who are fully in tune with the way things will continue to promote the established industry and legal practices when those who claim "common knowledge" and "it worked in the past" refuse to adhere to modern practices and also continue to argue against them.
BG if there were more like you who are prepared to sit back like you and not stir up trouble the threads would be more harmonious. Cindy does not have the knowledge to sort out all technical matters. As things now stand, all she can do is to let the threads progress and close them after the protagonists have had equal say.
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PeterD Nissan Navara D23 diesel auto, Spaceland pop-top Retired radio and electronics technician. NSW Central Coast.
Many thanks for your input and suggestions, justcruisin. As you have mentioned, we generally close threads either because they are religious or political, or because they lose their way and become a negative argument rather than a robust discussion where people may simply disagree with each other’s point of view. I agree that I am not a technical expert but, unfortunately, we do not in any way have the budget to employ someone to check over technical posts to ensure that the advice given is correct. I’m not even sure that anyone would be happy to take on that responsibility, even for a very high fee. As with any forum, our forum is really just a place to discuss the issues and for members to offer advice to each other. All posts in this forum are only opinions; we cannot vouch for the truth or validity of any post and people must take their own precautions about following the advice that is offered. Even the most qualified of technicians may write something that is lost in translation when it is posted online, or perhaps they may not know a vital piece of information that could change how their advice is given. Of course I do not want our forum to put forth information that is dangerous or wrong … and we have on numerous occasions stressed that people should seek qualified help on electrical or other technical issues before they proceed. I know that our technical subforum has had its issues and I understand that there are some members who disagree with how other members approach a question. I have PMd several members in this subforum to remind them to keep posts positive, avoid personal attacks and to stay on topic. I would encourage everyone to try to stay on topic and to discuss the issues themselves, not the person who is posting. A simple ‘I disagree, I think that it should be done this way because ….’ should be the approach.
Thereby holds the crux of the problem. People like Peter Q have the knowledge, skills and equally as important access to the electrical regs. We are getting many idiots who have less skills arguing against him. There are many who argue against him (and others) on safety things like "electrical jumper leads." Those who are fully in tune with the way things will continue to promote the established industry and legal practices when those who claim "common knowledge" and "it worked in the past" refuse to adhere to modern practices and also continue to argue against them.
BG if there were more like you who are prepared to sit back like you and not stir up trouble the threads would be more harmonious. Cindy does not have the knowledge to sort out all technical matters. As things now stand, all she can do is to let the threads progress and close them after the protagonists have had equal say.
Gday...
However, a further "crux" of the problem, speaking from the point of view of someone who is about half a notch above moron on electrical things, Peter Q certainly has considerable knowledge of things electrical and access to, and intimate knowledge of, the regs but .....
Unfortunately Peter Q (and a couple of others) has trouble conveying his knowledge and experience in a way that anyone, other than another 'expert' well versed in the subject, can understand. It often is so detailed, long-winded, technical and does not even seem to answer the question
Perhaps if Peter Q, and at least two others who seem to know their area of expertise very well, could simply put the information in words that could be easily understood by those of us on here who are "unversed". I do realise I am probably my own worst enemy in this because I usually cannot comprehend (interpret?) what he (they) are telling me.
Is there some way the people on the forum who really are "expert" with electricity can develop some 'layperson speak' that will answer the question without the highly technical, but obviously honest, responses.
As to the macho exchanges of just who knows more than the other I don't know how that will ever be resolved ... the bickering that goes back and forth - "I'm right!" ... "OH yes, but what if......" "..... but it used to be this 87 years ago when I worked as a sparkie" etc etc ad infinitum. Perhaps it is simply the male ego being exercised and that, unfortunately, is insurmountable.
Perhaps the answer is that ALL answers to ALL 240v questions should be "...it could be caused by XXXXX. I suggest you consult a qualified electrician" Perhaps the same for any 12v questions as well - consult an auto elec.
Sorry to go on and on but surely there cannot be THAT MUCH interpretation required in the regs.... or are they just so convoluted in themselves there will never be an 'absolute' straightforward answer to a basic question. If so, then perhaps it is best to not ask 240v questions on an open forum but to simply consult a sparkie - more than one if ya want to confirm advice (if I believe those on here - none of them "out there" know the regs properly") - and then get them to fix it and hope it is done properly.
And of course, all of the above seems to be further complicated by the fact, it would seem, that "all caravan manufacturers build electrically faulty (inadequate?) vans"
Cheers - John
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2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto - 2008 23ft Golden Eagle Hunter Some people feel the rain - the others just get wet - Bob Dylan
I have read the above comments especially from PeterD and Cindy.
My ONLY beef (and the reason I flipped out in a melt down) has nothing to do with knowledge or electrical skills, it is the way in which some folk (I have been guilty of this as well) respond to argument with a bombastic attitude and condescending language. I especially get short when standards are thrown in posters faces as the be all and end all.
This comment is NOT meant to inflame or attract a discussion on the merit or otherwise of standards, so PLEASE do not start that discussion, as I said my only beef was the way it was presented. Im not sure that if a person is technically wrong they deserve to be "shot down in flames" works in here either. I read that comment from a post and got me seriously hot under the collar.
When I was in the RAAF, we had severe penalties (even goal) for techs that worked outside the parameters of the Australian Air Publications (Mil standards), however, at times, approved (by engineers) shortcuts that SOLVED a problem and put an aircraft back in the sky were permitted. Now this was on multi million dollar aircraft with up to 12 lives on board (eg. P3B Orion, C130 Hercules). This demonstrates that part of our understanding as technicians should also contain an element of flexibility and compromise, these are attitudes that I have never seen in the technical threads from a few posters.
The bad news is my medication was not working and I was prone to melt downs, therefore I offer the forum (especially PeterQ and Cindy) my profound apology for these outbursts. I am now on a new medication that seems to be working well. I will limit my visits to the tech forum until I am stable again. BTW I have the greatest respect for PeterQ and his knowledge base and background.
I have no hidden agenda being part of this discussion, but I sincerely believe the whole forum would operate better if we all stopped and looked at what we are posting, before we hit the button, we need to ask ourselves if this post will create harmony and attract comments that reflect the reason the forum is here, as I see it, that is to promote the fantastic lifestyle I now embrace.
I especially get short when standards are thrown in posters faces as the be all and end all.
snip
When I was in the RAAF, we had severe penalties (even goal) for techs that worked outside the parameters of the Australian Air Publications (Mil standards), however, at times, approved (by engineers) shortcuts that SOLVED a problem and put an aircraft back in the sky were permitted. Now this was on multi million dollar aircraft with up to 12 lives on board (eg. P3B Orion, C130 Hercules). This demonstrates that part of our understanding as technicians should also contain an element of flexibility and compromise, these are attitudes that I have never seen in the technical threads from a few posters.
We are introducing a different dimension here. The situation in the RAAF is completely different to here. In the RAAF you have a group of well trained professional engineers who are capable of discussing fixes with each other and tradesmen who are able to question and discuss things with the engineers. When we are discussing things here we don't know who we are addressing. Things get frequently misinterpreted and meanings extended. Knowledgeable people should not give advice to people that is capable of being used wrongly. In this situation standards are the be all and end all.
A situation in the same vein occurred some years back. Hayman Reese used to approve the drilling of extra holes in WDH shanks providing the holes were 50 mm apart. Someone drilled an extra hole that did not conform with the instructions. This lead to an incident which further lead to litigation. Even when clear instructions are give they are not often followed. That's why we insist that standards must be followed. (Incidentally the result of the HR litigation was that HR now no longer permit extra holes to be drilled in shanks.)
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PeterD Nissan Navara D23 diesel auto, Spaceland pop-top Retired radio and electronics technician. NSW Central Coast.
