what did he do wrong??

Zoomtopz · Guru

what did he do wrong??

NeilandRaine · Guru

I would say that for a start if the road train was doing 90 why bother passing
Big chance the trailer brakes where not set right. He hit the brakes and the van wanted to keep going.
I would say he did not have a CB and did not talk to the truckie.
got speed wobbles and tried to brake out of it instead of driving out of it

These are just my opinions

03_troopy · Guru

Yeah, very hard to second guess, but I don't think I would be hitting the brakes when the van started to fish tail.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Incorrect weight distribution , pulling over too quick , possibly looking behind , trying to drive out of it ? Zigging when he should have been Zagging ! I find if this happens just keep car straight and it'll fix itself .. Looking in rear view mirror only makes things worse .. Wind off semi wouldn't have helped either..

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

HMMMM .... dead straight road. Road-train. It would be a fair assumption the road-train would have been sitting on the 100kph limit (as they try to do at all times) - but even if it was only travelling at 90kph, why oh why would anyone towing a caravan attempt to pass the road-train? To do so would quite probably require accelerating the rig to at least 100kph (or 110kph if road-train sitting on 100kph). Only looking for trouble.

Now let's further dissect the situation. As the caravan gained the lead on the road-train, the wind turbulence created by the road-train causes the van to be 'sucked off line' (it's called sway). The recommended action to take when the van begins to sway is to GENTLY lift off the throttle and gently apply the manual slide-control on the electric van brakes so the van is slowed and pulled back into line. It is NOT recommended to begin using the steering wheel to 'correct' the sway but rather to hold the steering wheel in a steady, straight ahead position while GENTLY lifting off the throttle and using the manual slide-control on the electric van brakes.

It is NOT recommended to use the vehicle's brakes to 'stop' the whole rig when the van is swaying. This will only end as demonstrated in the video - exaggerated, and increased swaying and ultimately rolling the van, and usually the vehicle with it.

Having a tow vehicle that is lighter than the van being towed is also not a prudent method of towing either - it will allow the 'tail' to wag the 'dog' in these situations, again making it extremely difficult to regain any semblance of control.

Unfortunately, these instances seem to occur too frequently - although even one such incident such as this is one more than enough.

Cheers - John

native pepper · Senior Member

See this a lot when driving road trains, not the actual over turn, but lots of swaying and 9 out of 10 times when they hit the brakes, over they go. There's so many on the road who don't have a clue about driving and towing, with more and more getting out there van roll overs are becoming more common. When you think about how those people came out of it, wrecked car, van, lost most of their stuff and all because they didn't know how to handle towing on bitumen. What happens if they are or dirt, where all the dynamics change, animals and other obstacles more common.

I'd say the car driver didn't realise how much wind shear was coming of the truck and thought once he was passed he could slow down. But didn't understand it can be like coming out of a vacum into a gale as you pass the prime mover and he eased off throwing all the momentum and weight forward, destabalising the van even more.

Maybe it's time for some form of special licence for towing vans and long rigs, most seem to think you just jump in and off you go. A caravan doesn't tow like a semi trailer, they are balanced between the wheels, a caravan is balanced over the wheels, like a pig trailer if it's dual axle. This makes them unstable anyway as the inertia is moved around the wheels and they can become like a rocking horse when towed, not even stabilising equipment can overcome sway, or roll inertia once it gets going. Unless your weight is balanced evenly from the tow ball to behind the axles, it will be unstable. Not much can be done about that, as that's the nature of caravans and it's a dangerous fault.

Never been able to understand why dog trailer type caravans never got going, they are very stable, safe, can carry large loads without compromising the stability of the towing vehicle and could be built much stronger and cheaper.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Single axle .. Wouldn't help! . Would like to see damage ?

oldbobsbus · Guru

The worrying thing is that ANYONE with a car licence can get out there with any size rig (Tug and Van) and kill themselves and anyone around them.. cry

I know we have had this comment before but sooner or later there needs to be some sort of test before towing anything larger than a small box trailer..

Anyhow that driver had his/her lesson the hard way..

philldeb · Member

If the truck was doing 90-100 ks looks like to much speed from the caravan. I think it was not wind from the truck after he s==t himself TO MUCH SPEED

Cruising Cruze · Guru

I hope the foolish man learned a lesson to not to over take a road train
what is the rush anyway as every one is saying most likely the truck did 90/100 km hr

PeterS · Veteran Member

Why the assumption that the driver was a man?

Santa · Guru

I agree with other posters, what the person towing the van did wrong was to overtake the semi, see it all the time, not content to sit on approx 100 kph, gotta overtake.

Saw a crumpled RV and van on the back of a truck at Three Ways last year, chatted to the truck driver, RV heading from Isa to Camoweal, tried to overtake a road train lost control, total write off.

Why pass em, we're supposed to be on holiday, better to arrive a few minutes later than you had planned than to not get there at all.

JayDee · Guru

Well we have discuss the very best driving speed on this site before. The general consensus is around 80 to 90 k's I can not image that the semi was doing 70 or less k's.
Caravan drivers should never be in a hurry to get where they want to be. almost 100% of the time the said person is on a tour or holidays.
I would much rather be late than on" time" for my funeral.
I can not of the life of me see why anyone wants to be driving around 100 ks towing a van, let alone try to pass a big rig.
Jay&Dee

Happywanderer · The Master

I will not overtake a semi etc. Have had them overtake me and I can feel the pull. Best to be safe than sorry.

grahamg · Senior Member

summary - don't overtake road trains

There are 2 options here to overcome the sway.
1. drive out of it
2. slowly lift off the throttle and manually brake the van

what is best option?

native pepper · Senior Member

grahamg wrote:
summary - don't overtake road trains

There are 2 options here to overcome the sway.
1. drive out of it
2. slowly lift off the throttle and manually brake the van

what is best option?

When your van is swaying, as soon as you lift your foot and apply the van brakes, you will flip the van as it will brake on an angle and the weight will be to one side. Inertia takes over then and bingo over it goes, pulling your car with it. The only hope you have is to keep increasing your speed until well beyond the RT, then you are pushing aside the wind shear and pulling your van through. Basically it's insane to pass a road train towing an caravan.

Passing anything towing a van that is longer or higher than you and you've got trouble, vans are designed for straight comfortable roads at speeds over about 70klm, any bumps bends and passing over those speeds will be asking for a disaster to happen. As others have said, only fools try to pass road trains when they are going more than 70klms, as well as big semi's and long high trays.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Atleast little damage to car??
Well I would say every one is SAFE !!!
Tip back on wheels and take it easy !!!

Baz421 · Guru

grahamg wrote:
summary - don't overtake road trains

There are 2 options here to overcome the sway.
1. drive out of it
2. slowly lift off the throttle and manually brake the van

what is best option?

Option 2 IMHO. I used to teach drivers of semi trailers how to get out of a jacknife position (we actually started the jacknife and recoverrd - slowly of course but we didi it),,, power on is better and DEFINITELY DON'T TOUCH BRAKES as this will ensure loss of control generally.

revemike · Senior Member

not that there is any excuse to pass a truck like this at speed.... however, would the ALKO-ESC have helped in this situation (if it were fitted)?

grahos · Guru

Baz421 I agree with you,Power out and if that fails keep pedal down and apply caravan brakes,
do not touch car brakes,I am also a semi trailer driver.

Baz421 · Guru

grahos wrote:
Baz421 I agree with you,Power out and if that fails keep pedal down and apply caravan brakes,
do not touch car brakes,I am also a semi trailer driver.

yEP EXACTLY AS i WOULD DO IT TOO,,,, gives you 3-4 seconds to get it back behind and then you have ample time to apply van brakes rather than just grab for them when still out of control.

briche · Guru

Saw that video clip on Face Book the other Day and I will repeat the comment that I made it and others that I have seen almost do the same. I think it is high time that people who tow caravans need to get their licence up graded to med to heavy ridged. At least that way they have a better understanding of the dynamics of towing a van in all sorts of conditions.

My 2 cents worth was why did he need to overtake the road train in the first place?

Was not aware of the wind shear from the front of the truck as he came past it

would have been much better to just sit behind and enjoy the journey. Too many people these days are in too much of a hurry.

briche

-- Edited by briche on Friday 14th of March 2014 12:17:37 AM

PeterS · Veteran Member

Dear fellow nomads, I notice that nobody has contradicted or agreed with my previous post! Everyone is assuming that the idiot driving the rig was a man! I didn't see anything to support this. I may be wrong! Just a comment.

Santa · Guru

PeterS wrote:
Dear fellow nomads, I notice that nobody has contradicted or agreed with my previous post! Everyone is assuming that the idiot driving the rig was a man! I didn't see anything to support this. I may be wrong! Just a comment.

Does the drivers gender really matter? I suspect not, was the driver an idiot? once again, probably not, simply didn't have the skill to carry out the manoeuvre that got caused the problem.

brian · Guru

briche wrote:
Saw that video clip on Face Book the other Day and I will repeat the comment that I made it and others that I have seen almost do the same. I think it is high time that people who tow caravans need to get their licence up graded to med to heavy ridged. At least that way they have a better understanding of the dynamics of towing a van in all sorts of conditions.
My 2 cents worth was why did he need to overtake the road train in the first place?
Was not aware of the wind shear from the front of the truck as he came past it

would have been much better to just sit behind and enjoy the journey. Too many people these days are in too much of a hurry.
briche

-- Edited by briche on Friday 14th of March 2014 12:17:37 AM

I seriously doubt that knowing how to correctly handle a rigid type truck would give you any more clue to the vagaries of towing a caravan.

Even driving a semi trailer type articulated vehicle is vastly different to towing a caravan and, I would suggest, the semi is an easier and safer unit to handle due to its single pendulum arrangement.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Have agree with you this timer Brian !! I leant to drive horse floats etc way before I got my HR licence.. In Experience and being impatient !!

native pepper · Senior Member

brian wrote:

I seriously doubt that knowing how to correctly handle a rigid type truck would give you any more clue to the vagaries of towing a caravan.
Even driving a semi trailer type articulated vehicle is vastly different to towing a caravan and, I would suggest, the semi is an easier and safer unit to handle due to its single pendulum arrangement.

You're right there, driven some huge long rigs and towed a few caravans in the past, the biggest was a 26ft dual axle majestic, think it was. Had a dual wheel long wheel base transit van with a 6 cylinder Perkins in it, still freaked me out and was driving road trains at the time. That's why we have a bus, safe, controllable and very strong. Hated towing vans, so unpredictable and unbalanced no matter what you do unless you stick below 80klms. Hate towing pig trailers, which are the same as towing a van and only good for backing into small tight spaces, but a horror on the road as all the balance is in the middle with the center of gravity high. It should be spread between the wheels, which adds balance stability and control.

Reckon you could make a fortune in designing and building a good modern dog trailer style caravan. It could be just about any legal controllable length and even two stories and still very stable and controllable. Only dreaming.

Zoomtopz · Guru

I think it's "the age old thing" -

I believe it's NOT the speed of the vehicle .

BUT , When most people come up Behind a vehicle They can Not See

past or around , be it a tray back ute , bus , van or truck , they Have to be

in front of it - so it is a rear of not being able to see . The view is blocked

by th rear of th front vehicle . And Not the speed the front vehicle is doing .

Yes we know , any of us can be driving along . Then get hit by wind .

That's what I like about this forum , you get some pretty good recomendations .

Yes , looking at that long stretch of flat straight road , I would have been

accelerating well clear of th rt before I got back in line . And yes I have driven

Road Trains since 1974 .

MollyW · Veteran Member

Now I'm getting mad !! Comment about it might have been a woman driving has got me fired. I am 60 years young and I still drive a truck !! Last time I took my truck out I had a load of round bales of hay, and also had a trailer load as well. I had a blowout driver side steer wheel on a bend travelling at 95klm. On coming car didn't help much either. I managed to hold it on the road whilst slowing down gently touching the break. When I thought it was safe I pulled onto the gravel. All was well. Hubby changed the wheel :)