PETROL FUMES FROM GENERATOR

TAJ · Senior Member

PETROL FUMES FROM GENERATOR

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Not knowing the flavour of your Gene TAJ could I suggest the vent on the fuel filler cap maybe still open. On a Honda Gene there is a valve switch you open to operate and turn it off when not in use.

TAJ · Senior Member

thanks dougwe its a genquip and has the turn switch cap

brian · Guru

TAJ wrote:
HAS anybody got any clues how to stop the smell of petrol fumes
in the tow wagon PAJERO from the genny
thanks suenray

A few possibilities to be used in conjunction or separately as preferred:-

1. Empty all fuel from the genny tank before stowing it.

2. Close the fuel tap (if it has one) and run the genny until it stops.

3. Keep the windows of the Pajero closed and your air conditioner on the vent position.

This will pressurise the car and force the fumes out through the rear vents rather than them being drawn forward and out the front windows.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

How good is the seal on fuel cap ? Is the float level too high or needle and seat issues..?
Maybe better sealing in gen compartment ..A good gen service maybe in order ?
Fuel could be saturating air filter etc ?

Pete49 · Senior Member

carry it in the van??
Pete

Jonathan · Senior Member

.. (2) things I would consider ..

a. possible mini-fracture in the fuel line (motor can still work ok) and

b. check also that the fumes are not escaping from another source like a fuel container in the same area ..

TAJ · Senior Member

thanks will try all ideas ( carry in van )

SHE WILL KILL ME

suenray

tezza · Senior Member

I wouldnt feel comfortable carrying anything with fuel in it in the tug especially if there is a possibility it is leaking.

TAJ · Senior Member

cut a new seal for the petrol cap out of gasket

it has stopped the smell so will cut one from rubber

see how it goes on trip with windows up and front

air vents open THANKS ALL

suenray

Baz421 · Guru

TAJ wrote:
cut a new seal for the petrol cap out of gasket
it has stopped the smell so will cut one from rubber
see how it goes on trip with windows up and front
air vents open THANKS ALL
suenray

Rubber will probably swell and leak also,,, suggets you use Neoprene rubber that is petrol and solvent resistant.

native pepper · Senior Member

Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.

TAJ · Senior Member

native pepper wrote:
Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.

never heard of any such problems but always a first i think you are anti gennies

i would never take a dog with me i think they smell but WE have all different ideas

Vic41 · Guru

Slightly OT, but on the subject of petrol fumes, be careful of refuelling or decanting fuel from a generator around your RV, this fire was caused by the fumes and expanded fuel spilling from a jerry can when opened and the fumes were ignited by a pilot light off a gas fridge.

One adult was badly burnt and his wife was also burnt trying to put the flames out on him, both were hospitalized. Luckily their children were outside and away from the RV. This happened at Banka Banka Station NT near the main highway and not far from Three Ways;

Banka Banks Station 2.jpg Banka Banks Station 3.jpg Banka Banks Station 4.jpg

-- Edited by Vic41 on Tuesday 4th of March 2014 12:13:43 PM

native pepper · Senior Member

TAJ wrote:
native pepper wrote:
Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.
never heard of any such problems but always a first i think you are anti gennies
i would never take a dog with me i think they smell but WE have all different ideas

Yep, can't stand generators in the bush, completely defeats the purpose of being in quiet natural peaceful surroundings without the smell, pollution and noise you get from urban land living. Just like diesel heaters are as noisy, smelly, dangerous and wasteful.

Dogs with bad diets sure do smell, just like humans who live on junk food smell atrocious. Dogs with good diets don't smell any more than a clean human and if you keep your rig clean, there's never any problems. Plus they are wonderful companions and the girls can go walking anywhere they like with our dogs and be safe.

Been on the road 40+ years virtually full time, trucking and travelling. Have come across many episodes of fools carrying petrol in vans and vehicles, as they blazed away on the side of the road, or camp area. We used to carry a petrol chainsaw and never bought fuel until we knew we would need it, then get rid of what was left. Now we use a makita 36v chainsaw, which does an excellent job for our little wood heater and has also cleared a few downed trees we've encountered at times, blocking our way.

It only needs a slight accident carrying petrol and the always associated fumes, a small spark or heat source and bingo up you go. Plus you need to understand if your rig is insured and petrol you are carrying causes a lose, you may not be insured. It's against the law to carry hazardous materials with out proper storage, a permit or proper signage and that certainly includes petrol. As some people we ran across a year or so ago found out when their van and car burnt out after a small collision in W NSW and fumes from petrol they were carrying exploded. Luckily they had go out to inspect the damage when it blew up. We met them at a small town they were staying at and trying to decide what they would do, their insurance would only cover the car, not the van which had the petrol in it.

The number of people trying to get on the Tas ferries that get picked up with petrol is amazing, mobile bombs as one inspector told us. They have to either put it in the vehicles or leave it behind, many end up dumping it and the same with diesel.

Yes everyone has different idea's and that's fine, it makes for an interesting world. But not into mobile bombs, it's suicide and I like living safely.

It also amazes me the number of people travelling who don't carry any fire extinguishers they can get to, or other safety gear. The post above seems to suggest there was no ability to fight the fire, which is very common. Having extinguishers in the van when it catches fire is not very good thinking. In our bus we have then inside and also underneath where they can be got at easily if needed. One sits above he stove, another by the door, one in the back bedroom and underneath there is one at each end of the bus.

-- Edited by native pepper on Tuesday 4th of March 2014 01:49:09 PM

rosa · Senior Member

tja,thanks for the tip i'll try it with my genquip we keep it in the back to again thanks

The dog lady · Guru

tezza wrote:
I wouldnt feel comfortable carrying anything with fuel in it in the tug especially if there is a possibility it is leaking.

I carry the genny in the HiAce, and have had one experience of a fuel line fracture which dumped all the fuel on a mat. After that my son replaced ALL the hoses with top quality stuff like he uses to outfit boats. Never had any problem with smell after that and mine is only a cheap "Fuji" brand. If there are fumes I would definitely be checking all hoses and seals as there should not be any fuel or vapour escaping.

-- Edited by The dog lady on Wednesday 5th of March 2014 01:38:48 AM

brian · Guru

native pepper wrote:
Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.

While it is true that there is a high risk of health problems from breathing fuel vapour in the car, the risk of explosion is minimal in this circumstance.

The minimum petrol/air vapour ratio required for an explosion to occur is 1.3% fuel vapour to air.

Given that a Pajero will have approximately 2.5 cubic metres (2500 litres) of free air space even when heavily packed, then to obtain a 1.3% fuel to air ratio would require around 30 litres of fuel to have evaporated into the cabin air space before an explosion could occur - this is unlikely to occur.

This should not be taken to mean that ignition of the actual fuel vapour in the tank or container is not possible if an ignition source is provided (as the ratio in there will be highly enriched), and storing fuel outside with free ventilation is a far better proposition.

TAJ · Senior Member

brian thanks for that a lot of readers will be a lot more comfortable and 4 sale signs

taken off generators

the photo the dog lady has put up just turned me into a dog lover

suenray

native pepper · Senior Member

brian wrote:
native pepper wrote:
Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.
While it is true that there is a high risk of health problems from breathing fuel vapour in the car, the risk of explosion is minimal in this circumstance.
The minimum petrol/air vapour ratio required for an explosion to occur is 1.3% fuel vapour to air.
Given that a Pajero will have approximately 2.5 cubic metres (2500 litres) of free air space even when heavily packed, then to obtain a 1.3% fuel to air ratio would require around 30 litres of fuel to have evaporated into the cabin air space before an explosion could occur - this is unlikely to occur.
This should not be taken to mean that ignition of the actual fuel vapour in the tank or container is not possible if an ignition source is provided (as the ratio in there will be highly enriched), and storing fuel outside with free ventilation is a far better proposition.

Make all the technical apologetics you like, but the facts are, it happens and those spending lots of time on the road, see the remains and local news reports that are out there. Below is a quote from DMP dangerous goods director Philip Hine,

"It wasn't too long ago that a driver was badly burnt after lighting a cigarette in a vehicle where petrol fumes had accumulated after venting from a jerry can." http://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/15198391/dangerous-goods-on-dmp-radar/

You can't seal a generator fuel tank, they need to breathe when the fuel expands and evaporates. Wonder how many read their insurance polices, they may find most policies require you to inform your insurer if you are carrying flammable dangerous goods in your vehicle and or vans. Gas bottles may be included in the policy, but not generator fuel tanks, or other containers in cars and vans. Petrol is covered in the 3 most volatile dangerous goods hazard classes, 1-3, explosive, gaseous and flammable.

It's much better to be safe than sorry and having carted fuels, chemicals and explosives for many years in the bush, had to undergo a hazardous goods course, including theory, case studies and practical demonstrations and really gives you the facts. Personally I don't care what others do, but factual experienced information is much more precious and useful, than all the empty hope and denial of reality you find in most. You carry petrol in your van or car interior and you're a mobile bomb just waiting for detonation.

-- Edited by native pepper on Thursday 6th of March 2014 09:22:43 AM

The dog lady · Guru

TAJ wrote:
brian thanks for that a lot of readers will be a lot more comfortable and 4 sale signs
taken off generators
the photo the dog lady has put up just turned me into a dog lover
suenray

Guess you agree he's kinda cute. He's about 5kg wringing wet and very timid, until he sees a kangaroo. Then his mind tells him he's a 50kg greyhound hunting machine. Funny as biggrin

Ontos45 · Guru

native pepper wrote:
brian wrote:
native pepper wrote:
Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.
While it is true that there is a high risk of health problems from breathing fuel vapour in the car, the risk of explosion is minimal in this circumstance.
The minimum petrol/air vapour ratio required for an explosion to occur is 1.3% fuel vapour to air.
Given that a Pajero will have approximately 2.5 cubic metres (2500 litres) of free air space even when heavily packed, then to obtain a 1.3% fuel to air ratio would require around 30 litres of fuel to have evaporated into the cabin air space before an explosion could occur - this is unlikely to occur.
This should not be taken to mean that ignition of the actual fuel vapour in the tank or container is not possible if an ignition source is provided (as the ratio in there will be highly enriched), and storing fuel outside with free ventilation is a far better proposition.
Make all the technical apologetics you like, but the facts are, it happens and those spending lots of time on the road, see the remains and local news reports that are out there. Below is a quote from DMP dangerous goods director Philip Hine,
"It wasn't too long ago that a driver was badly burnt after lighting a cigarette in a vehicle where petrol fumes had accumulated after venting from a jerry can." http://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/15198391/dangerous-goods-on-dmp-radar/
You can't seal a generator fuel tank, they need to breathe when the fuel expands and evaporates. Wonder how many read their insurance polices, they may find most policies require you to inform your insurer if you are carrying flammable dangerous goods in your vehicle and or vans. Gas bottles may be included in the policy, but not generator fuel tanks, or other containers in cars and vans. Petrol is covered in the 3 most volatile dangerous goods hazard classes, 1-3, explosive, gaseous and flammable.
It's much better to be safe than sorry and having carted fuels, chemicals and explosives for many years in the bush, had to undergo a hazardous goods course, including theory, case studies and practical demonstrations and really gives you the facts. Personally I don't care what others do, but factual experienced information is much more precious and useful, than all the empty hope and denial of reality you find in most. You carry petrol in your van or car interior and you're a mobile bomb just waiting for detonation.

-- Edited by native pepper on Thursday 6th of March 2014 09:22:43 AM

Wonder you use the horseless wagon at all and not a horse and cart. If I had your attitude to what could/what can happen on the road I'd still be a couch potato. Some of us have to use generators for medical reasons, or, shouldn't I travel as I may pollute your air?

native pepper · Senior Member

Ontos45 wrote:
native pepper wrote:
brian wrote:
native pepper wrote:
Nothing like carrying a bomb in you vehicle, especially a petrol one. All you need is short circuit somewhere and you're history with just a small amount of fumes. Doubt you'll find anything to stop the fumes, there are to many places fuel can seep from. Then you add changing temperatures in side the car, normally getting hotter the petrol will expand, pressurise, evaporate and find a way out. Pure insanity to carry petrol in the interior of your car, plus the fumes will effect you're health as well. Every time you open your door, the interior light comes on, touch your brakes, small short circuit and boom bye bye and all for a stupid noisy smelly polluting generator. But each to their own approach to life and death.
While it is true that there is a high risk of health problems from breathing fuel vapour in the car, the risk of explosion is minimal in this circumstance.
The minimum petrol/air vapour ratio required for an explosion to occur is 1.3% fuel vapour to air.
Given that a Pajero will have approximately 2.5 cubic metres (2500 litres) of free air space even when heavily packed, then to obtain a 1.3% fuel to air ratio would require around 30 litres of fuel to have evaporated into the cabin air space before an explosion could occur - this is unlikely to occur.
This should not be taken to mean that ignition of the actual fuel vapour in the tank or container is not possible if an ignition source is provided (as the ratio in there will be highly enriched), and storing fuel outside with free ventilation is a far better proposition.
Make all the technical apologetics you like, but the facts are, it happens and those spending lots of time on the road, see the remains and local news reports that are out there. Below is a quote from DMP dangerous goods director Philip Hine,
"It wasn't too long ago that a driver was badly burnt after lighting a cigarette in a vehicle where petrol fumes had accumulated after venting from a jerry can." http://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/15198391/dangerous-goods-on-dmp-radar/
You can't seal a generator fuel tank, they need to breathe when the fuel expands and evaporates. Wonder how many read their insurance polices, they may find most policies require you to inform your insurer if you are carrying flammable dangerous goods in your vehicle and or vans. Gas bottles may be included in the policy, but not generator fuel tanks, or other containers in cars and vans. Petrol is covered in the 3 most volatile dangerous goods hazard classes, 1-3, explosive, gaseous and flammable.
It's much better to be safe than sorry and having carted fuels, chemicals and explosives for many years in the bush, had to undergo a hazardous goods course, including theory, case studies and practical demonstrations and really gives you the facts. Personally I don't care what others do, but factual experienced information is much more precious and useful, than all the empty hope and denial of reality you find in most. You carry petrol in your van or car interior and you're a mobile bomb just waiting for detonation.

-- Edited by native pepper on Thursday 6th of March 2014 09:22:43 AM
Wonder you use the horseless wagon at all and not a horse and cart. If I had your attitude to what could/what can happen on the road I'd still be a couch potato. Some of us have to use generators for medical reasons, or, shouldn't I travel as I may pollute your air?

My attitude is derived from being a full time traveller for more than 50 years and still spend at least 9 months on the road, it's called hands on experience and a life time of living knowledge, working and driving in the bush. Then you can align that with being a road train driver since the age of 20 and still doing it a couple of times a year so people can take holidays.

The information I'm giving is factual and from experience, couldn't care less if anyone takes any notice, but if one does and saves them a problem, then my posts are worthwhile and really only for those interested in their safety and information.

Seen thousands of wrecked vans during our time, roll overs are very common, as are explosions and as more get on the road, so we see more when we come near civilisation.

As for polluting my air, no chance, where we travel and camp, only run into real travellers, the majority we have known for many many years. We stay well away from the tourist conga line, holidaying urban travellers stick to. To us the peace and tranquility of the bush is what we seek, not noisy smelly polluting urban living. There are plenty of van parks and tourist camping places for those desiring urban conditions and never ending noise.

We know of a few people who use medical equipment and don't have generators, but really good solar setups. If they need extra power, they would stay in van parks and powered camps. With the technology of today, you can run just about anything on solar if you have the proper input, storage and output.