Caravans Vs 5th Wheelers

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

Caravans Vs 5th Wheelers

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

5er with 7 seats.

www.tradervs.com.au/detail/rv-towing/caravans/oka/4-x4--swagman-5th-wheeler/135439

Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 1st of February 2014 10:07:23 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

I looked at a few .. What put me off was they are NOT selling and didn't want to end up with something I cant sell latter on..
I must say the 5 wheelers were way up there !! Add a good / competent towing vehicle added up big time..
To me the lighter 4 cyl turbo diesels are a little on the light side.. Control wise..

Blueys 64 · Member

Just my opinion and others may differ, I would also get a heads up with your insurance company re what recovery costs they would cover, if you need to get a broken down fiver to a repair/service centre if for some reason you cant move it.

Will they cover the cost of a low loader.

Float hire isn't cheap, you may need a fat wallet.

Cheers,

Bluey.

brian · Guru

Apart from the good answers already given, 5th wheelers are far safer to tow than a large caravan.

oldbobsbus · Guru

A couple of 5th w/ers turned up here yesterday and they looked like an elephant sitting on a mouse... One was sitting up soo high the marshals had to keep watch out for them as they made their way through the avenue of trees to the parking area..

I would hate to be driving them with a high cross wind..

Gerty Dancer · Guru

Be careful to get an Australian-made one if you choose a 5-er. The imports may be cheaper, but my brother had an American "lemon" with so many things needing constant repairs, they didn't feel safe in it. Their planned 3year nomadding ended after 10 months and they sold it at a large financial loss.

Hoodwinkers · Member

Hi Greg

We had a 28' Coromal caravan which we loved but now have a 25' Travelhome 5th Wheeler. The towing and backing of the 5th wheeler is so much easier. Mind you our Travelhome doesn't have slide outs etc. My partner drives most of the time but even I can handle it easily if the need arrives. We didn't want something too big so this is just right for us. But each to their own. Lots of people are against 5th wheelers but we have no problem with ours and being Aussie made with a factory in NSW gives us peace of mind. Good luck with your research and enjoy your travels.

Cheers Jill

ozjohn · Guru

If you've got the dollars go for an Aussie made 5th wheeler.
OJ

Andrea · Senior Member

GregTheComputerGuy wrote:
A local 4WD tour operator to me who takes people out anywhere in the country and knows how to and where to do anything at all devoted to offroad and onroad touring was telling me that 5th wheelers are generally not as liked by caravan parks or in some cases even local councils as opposed to the exact same car towing a caravan of the same size.
Greg, we've been travelling in our Southern Cross 7.7 m (25' 6") 5th wheeler for over five years now; although we spend some of our time property-minding ('up-market free-camping'!) we've also used a lot of caravan parks, in SA, Vic, NSW, QLD and WA. We've never yet been knocked back, and never yet been charged extra.
<snip> We are going to sell the house and move onto the road full time basically because we cannot afford it any other way for starters and secondly we both love long drives and this surely will be that!
We sold up in mid-2008, had our van built in Brisbane and have never looked back!
Hitching a 5th wheeler, to my scant knowledge, looks a heck of a lot easier than hitching a normal caravan and also the 5th wheeler looks a lot more able to be managed in tight spaces easier than the same car with same length caravan.
Hitching is certainly easy, and although John and I usually work together, I can manage the whole operation on my own (had to learn when he was hospitalised in Bendigo in 2012).
So I have come asking for help. See, whatever I end up getting, 5th wheeler or caravan, it will be 28 feet and slide out bedroom/dinette sections so we can at least see ourselves as spending those rainy days inside when we definitely HAVE to do so.
We decided against slide-outs as being extra weight and something else to go wrong. Haven't regretted it, we seem to find sufficient personal space just at either end of the table on our laptops! And the layout of our van, with the lounge/dining space at the front over the hitch and the bathroom at the back, give lots of room to walk through.
The car I have in mind is a Holden Colorado due to the fact that the 2013 onwards models tow 3500 and thus would be enough for what I need and the top of the line one is only around the $42000 mark. I would lose the ute section behind the twin cab area if I choose a 5th wheeler, obviously so that would be one minor drawback to me because storage will be small compared to living in a house.
Our van was built for the Mazda BT-50 'Freestyle', and although we'd love to upgrade to the newer model, it has served us very well. But DON'T at the tow rating, Greg - you must look at the gross combination mass (GCM), which for the 2008 BT-50 is 5.5 tonne. Storage hasn't been a real problem for us but is a very personal thing, depending on what you find is 'essential'.
Other than that I dont know enough to know if 5th wheelers have other considerations people see as drawbacks.
We wouldn't go any other way!!
Andrea & John

banjo · Senior Member

GregTheComputerGuy wrote:
This isnt meant to be controversial, just mining for info.
"A local 4WD tour operator to me who takes people out anywhere in the country and knows how to and where to do anything at all devoted to offroad and onroad touring was telling me that 5th wheelers are generally not as liked by caravan parks or in some cases even local councils as opposed to the exact same car towing a caravan of the same size."
Sorry but your well meaning tour operator doesn't know what he's talking about.
" We are going to sell the house and move onto the road full time basically because we cannot afford it any other way for starters and secondly we both love long drives and this surely will be that!"
We sold up in 2012 and bought a Truelux 30' 5th wheeler with slide out. It has perfect livability and space inside.
"Hitching a 5th wheeler, to my scant knowledge, looks a heck of a lot easier than hitching a normal caravan and also the 5th wheeler looks a lot more able to be managed in tight spaces easier than the same car with same length caravan"
Hitching up id dead easy and I no longer have to crawl under a caravan to do it . I can do it easily single handed as I have a camera mounted on my rear tray.
"So I have come asking for help. See, whatever I end up getting, 5th wheeler or caravan, it will be 28 feet and slide out bedroom/dinette sections so we can at least see ourselves as spending those rainy days inside when we definitely HAVE to do so."
As said we have one slide in the living area, gives us all the room we require and more, I also have a desk set up so can sit and work on the computer or do some sewing etc.
A 28' caravan is big ! especially when you hang it off the back of a dual cab, bigger footprint than my rig by far.

"The car I have in mind is a Holden Colorado due to the fact that the 2013 onwards models tow 3500 and thus would be enough for what I need and the top of the line one is only around the $42000 mark. I would lose the ute section behind the twin cab area if I choose a 5th wheeler, obviously so that would be one minor drawback to me because storage will be small compared to living in a house. Other than that I dont know enough to know if 5th wheelers have other considerations people see as drawbacks."

You will be getting close to the limits with a 28' slideout model, or caravan for that matter ! we know of a similar setup and he had to move up to a small Hino truck as the fuel consumption was killing them.
I tow with an Isuzu truck and it does it easily and we have heaps of extra storage, which believe me you will need as you tend to acquire more gear living full time in it.
Another option would be the Iveco dual cab, great fuel economy but a little more expensive.

We have never been knocked back by any CP, but we always ring ahead and ask the questions re bigger rig. Sometimes we even get a better site as if they do not want to lose your custom they will find somewhere to put you.

deb-gary · Senior Member

I contract to a holden dealer and would not buy a Colorado as new one has fiat motor the dmax is about to be upgraded to 3500 towing and even tho some believe it is the same as a Colorado it is not do some research read some forums etc as you don't usually get a second chance without spending lots more money.

Grevo · Veteran Member

Greg,

The biggest factor in our choice of 5th wheeler over caravan was the towing stability. As Brian mentioned, and I strongly believe, they are a lot safer in that regard.

Cheers,

Gary

freehazzas · Senior Member

We have found that most of the anti 5ver rumours such as knock backs ect are only spread about by those that dont have one, have never had one, hooked up one or towed one and cant afford to have one. We have had no trouble at all with ours. We started off with a 25 ft van and patrol so have had both. Would never go back to a van again after towing the rig. Our fuel usage is LESS now towing 4.5 tone fifth wheeler than it was a large van with patrol. Height has nothing to do with fuel eco as long as its built right and balanced. Ours is one of the highest 5vers on the road at over 12 ft at highest point. Most others are only 11 ft and a bit.

Caravan parks hire you a site. Tha site is the same no matter if your 40 ft long or a 12 ft wiz banger. Its still one site only. There is no such thing as a business like a park knocking back your money for that site. Hog wash. We often stay a week so thats a weeks money they would loose. Does that make sence to you . I think not. Many of them save their big sites and drive thrus for big rigs now.

Ignore the rumours and go with what YOU want.

freehazzas · Senior Member

In regards to Blues breakdown ref, any prime mover will tow a fifth wheeler with a standard 50mm king pin. Easy to shift them. A tow company always has one they can get their hands on.

Tim thetruckie · Senior Member

PeterS · Veteran Member

We did a whole bunch of research before going out and buying a Winjana 8m Cattai built in Toowoomba to our indoor spec and bought an Isuzu DMAX which has been absolutely great! Towing is a dream & getting in & out of small spaces relatively easy for a novice GN like me.

Would not think of a caravan now!

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
I looked at a few .. What put me off was they are NOT selling and didn't want to end up with something I cant sell latter on..
I must say the 5 wheelers were way up there !! Add a good / competent towing vehicle added up big time..
To me the lighter 4 cyl turbo diesels are a little on the light side.. Control wise..

Thanks for the reply but you are saying 5th wheeler resale value isnt good, right? I guess that raises a point I had never considered. I expected to buy a caravan or 5th wheeler and live in it from that date until I croak. I hadnt even considered resale value.

So do you live full time on the road? If so, apart from a 5th wheeler suffering significant damage and needing replacing because of that or because it was stolen, what makes you want to move out of your current on road home into a new one should you be full time on the road? Doubt I could afford that either but I do remember the caravan I owned for 2 years when first married was $5000 to buy and same to sell. It amazed me that caravans, back then APPRECIATED in value!

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

Blueys 64 wrote:
Just my opinion and others may differ, I would also get a heads up with your insurance company re what recovery costs they would cover, if you need to get a broken down fiver to a repair/service centre if for some reason you cant move it.
Will they cover the cost of a low loader.

Float hire isn't cheap, you may need a fat wallet.

Cheers,

Bluey.

A very interesting reply! I had actually thought of that same subject when thinking a motorhome would be me. I was driving along and happened to see a motorhome, broken down, on the back of a tow truck being taken in for repair. At that moment I realised the "down" for me as I see it personall, with motorhomes. I moved on to caravans at that point and have been wondering about 5th wheeler recently.

However, say my CAR broke down and needed towing and I was en route when that happened, at no particular camping spot. I get the car towed as normal and I thought that hitching a caravan to most normal 2 ton or 1 ton trucks with a tow bar wouldnt be a problem. With the 5th wheeler, I understand the 5th wheel isnt really the same thing as the one on a normal truck and trailer so yes I guess you WOULD have to haul it in on the back of a flat top truck. I have no clue about the cost of that versus the cost of towing a normal caravan in but I would imagine it would be a heck of a lot more. It makes me wonder if there is a clause for caravan insurance that covers the cost of having to get it towed in the event of car breakdown. I sure hope so!

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

brian wrote:
Apart from the good answers already given, 5th wheelers are far safer to tow than a large caravan.

Really? How so? I mean say a 28 foot caravan versus a 28 foot 5th wheeler. Why woul the 5th be safer?

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

oldbobsbus wrote:
A couple of 5th w/ers turned up here yesterday and they looked like an elephant sitting on a mouse... One was sitting up soo high the marshals had to keep watch out for them as they made their way through the avenue of trees to the parking area..
I would hate to be driving them with a high cross wind..

Going back to Xmas Day 1977 or 1978 (not sure which) here. My in laws lived near Helensbugh NSW and one of their sons without a car lived up in Cronulla. So, my wife and I jump in our little Torana we had at that time and take off for him. We get into a well noted high wind area (even back then) and coming the other way is a Toyota 4WD towing a caravan. He gets the wobbles as I watch him and instead of hitting the accelerator, he hit the brakes, jack knifed and spred his car and the frame of the caravan across all 3 lanes and the match sticks left of the van everywhere across all six lanes. Fortunately I got through before the shower of debris made its way onto my side of the road. His car and van were a parallelogram shape, what was left of the van still attached.

I know some 5th wheelers are larger than others but I was thinking about a 28 footer in caravan or 5th wheeler. The 5th would be higher for sure and heavier but the height would be at the front near the hitch, only, wouldnt it? I know there are 40 footer 5th wheelers but to be honest, I couldnt see myself in that large a van or trying to move it around, either!

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

Gerty Dancer wrote:
Be careful to get an Australian-made one if you choose a 5-er. The imports may be cheaper, but my brother had an American "lemon" with so many things needing constant repairs, they didn't feel safe in it. Their planned 3year nomadding ended after 10 months and they sold it at a large financial loss.

An interesting thought. I used to work for Caltex H.O. in their old building in Kent St Sydney. It was the first air conditioned building in Australia. They decided to replace the air conditioning sometime around 1979/1980ish. They got an American expert on air conditioning in who recommended an American unit for the entire building. It didnt work well. The guy had no idea just what a Sydney Summer was as compared to American Summer.

However, I also bought a Honda Civic brand new in 1977 when they had a great reputation. I got a lemon that used to blwo the water pump every 6 months or so. I also bought a Daewoo Espero in 1997 and later found out they spend most of their time on the road on tow trucks. Mine has been fabulous since I got it. I still have it to this day though it doesnt get a lot of use as you cant get a lot of parts for it anymore.

What I guess I am saying is that it can just be the one they had was a lemon. I had been pretty well set on a 25 foot jayco with slide outs on it and know that as caravans go, owning a Jayco is like owning a Holden wherein no matter where you have a problem, there is always someone around to fix it as opposed to some overseas model caravans where you would really want to be in the capital cities of each state or a HUGE country town to get the same service. I still am looking more like being a Jayco owner but 5th wheeler or caravan still remains unclear.

Santa · Guru

I know the topic is Caravans Vs 5th Wheelers, however, have used both of these options as well as motor homes over a period of years, as far as I'm concerned for convenience and comfort the motor home wins hands down.

Have owned one for quite a while now and don't regret the purchase for a moment.

Will now take cover and await incoming fire. biggrin

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

Hoodwinkers wrote:
Hi Greg
We had a 28' Coromal caravan which we loved but now have a 25' Travelhome 5th Wheeler. The towing and backing of the 5th wheeler is so much easier. Mind you our Travelhome doesn't have slide outs etc. My partner drives most of the time but even I can handle it easily if the need arrives. We didn't want something too big so this is just right for us. But each to their own. Lots of people are against 5th wheelers but we have no problem with ours and being Aussie made with a factory in NSW gives us peace of mind. Good luck with your research and enjoy your travels.
Cheers Jill

That has been one of the larger considerations on my mind.

The car we have right now, which has to be sold and a Colorado that tows 3500Kg bought, is a Captiva but a manual. I love driving manuals. My wife doesnt. When on the road and so long as she can get it into 5th gear, all is well if she can hit the cruise control and just cruise. Having her trying to back up a caravan OR 5th wheeler would be something. I have mentioned to her how everyone says the 5th wheeler is a lot easier but she keeps pointing out how LARGE at the front end that they are though I am not quite sure why that would bother her and she doesnt seem to be able to put it into words either.

I had thought that, should it be a caravan we end up with, I will have to get that system fitted that runs on 12V and allows you to move the van without it being hitched to the car. In that way if for any reason it has to be HER to set it up then she wouldnt have a problem. However, that costs.

Still havent found out why it would be considered that some places seem not to like the same length 5th wheeler as opposed to caravan though.

Tim thetruckie · Senior Member

GregTheComputerGuy wrote:

A very interesting reply! I had actually thought of that same subject when thinking a motorhome would be me. I was driving along and happened to see a motorhome, broken down, on the back of a tow truck being taken in for repair. At that moment I realised the "down" for me as I see it personall, with motorhomes. I moved on to caravans at that point and have been wondering about 5th wheeler recently.
However, say my CAR broke down and needed towing and I was en route when that happened, at no particular camping spot. I get the car towed as normal and I thought that hitching a caravan to most normal 2 ton or 1 ton trucks with a tow bar wouldnt be a problem. With the 5th wheeler, I understand the 5th wheel isnt really the same thing as the one on a normal truck and trailer so yes I guess you WOULD have to haul it in on the back of a flat top truck. I have no clue about the cost of that versus the cost of towing a normal caravan in but I would imagine it would be a heck of a lot more. It makes me wonder if there is a clause for caravan insurance that covers the cost of having to get it towed in the event of car breakdown. I sure hope so!

The only difference between the turntable used for a 5er and the turntable used on a prime mover is the size of the table . Except for heavy duty road train use where 90mm pin is used , 50mm pins are used by all semi trailers and 5er's . Have a read though this link http://www.dangelo.com.au/fifth-wheel.asp?product=MiniMax

Have a look at the photo above as well

-- Edited by Tim thetruckie on Monday 3rd of February 2014 09:30:05 AM

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

Andrea and John

I wont quote the whole lot as there sure is a lot there. I thought I would add this though - a friend of mine, about mid 2013, bought hiself a Mazda BT50 and also a 28 foot Cell caravan for him and his wife. They sold the house and moved onto the road full time. At the time I had been looking at cars to tow with and I had only noted the BT50 as being 3000Kg and a lot more expensive. I was surprised when he brought the Cell caravan (Homestead) home from Melbourne to pack all his stuff in before moving on. He pointed out that I have to watch my "Ps and Qs" as the BT50 P tows 3000 while the BT50 Q tows 3500. It seems a good car as he set cruise control on at 90KPH on a highway coming out of Melbourne and went up the hill doing that speed and when he started down the other side, the car actually changed to lower gears to keep to 90. I was impressed.

Still, the Colorado tows 3500 and top of the line is about $17000 cheaper than top of the line BT50 last I looked. I didnt know anything about GCM so will look at that. Thanks for that info.

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

deb-gary wrote:
I contract to a holden dealer and would not buy a Colorado as new one has fiat motor the dmax is about to be upgraded to 3500 towing and even tho some believe it is the same as a Colorado it is not do some research read some forums etc as you don't usually get a second chance without spending lots more money.

I'm sorry but this one went past me like a skyrocket in the night! ;-} I was out seriously looking at cars to tow what I want, last year. I had a basic idea of what sort of caravan and the weight of it I would want (though not specific) and I decided I needed something that would tow 3500. A jayco Sterling 25.78 20B which we feel, though not as long as we want MAY be OK (going to the Newcastle show this coming Saturday in the hopes of seeing one to confirm that one way or another), is rated by Jayco at 2780Kg. It is a slide out as we wanted.

So why would that caravan not be good on the back of a Colorado? Please - I am not trying to be controversial, I am trying to find out all I can. Like you have said, you want to buy right first time - then hope for the best. ;-}

Tim thetruckie · Senior Member

GregTheComputerGuy wrote:
I didnt know anything about GCM so will look at that. Thanks for that info.

GCM is Gross Combination Mass , which means the weight of the tow vehicle +the weight of the trailer being towed .

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

freehazzas wrote:
We have found that most of the anti 5ver rumours such as knock backs ect are only spread about by those that dont have one, have never had one, hooked up one or towed one and cant afford to have one. We have had no trouble at all with ours. We started off with a 25 ft van and patrol so have had both. Would never go back to a van again after towing the rig. Our fuel usage is LESS now towing 4.5 tone fifth wheeler than it was a large van with patrol. Height has nothing to do with fuel eco as long as its built right and balanced. Ours is one of the highest 5vers on the road at over 12 ft at highest point. Most others are only 11 ft and a bit.

Caravan parks hire you a site. Tha site is the same no matter if your 40 ft long or a 12 ft wiz banger. Its still one site only. There is no such thing as a business like a park knocking back your money for that site. Hog wash. We often stay a week so thats a weeks money they would loose. Does that make sence to you . I think not. Many of them save their big sites and drive thrus for big rigs now.

Ignore the rumours and go with what YOU want.

Thanks for all that info. I need to get it "from the horse's mouth" so to speak because all I have to date is that from that tour operator who I have to say knows a hell of a lot but it doesnt make him an unbiased person and that thought has been in the back of my mind. After all, he chooses a cub trailer style camper and while there is nothing wrong with that, it may be that he is biased against 5th wheelers because, camping beside one would be like camping under the rock of Gibraltar! My local vet was telling me that he had prebooked a tent camping site and when he got there they had sold them all and they were all occupied so they gave him a caravan/5th wheeler spot. He had set up with his wife and kids in a smallish tent when a 40 foot 5th wheeler came in next to him. he said he knew what a possum felt like when a car got next to it after that! ;-}

I do feel the local guy has a lot of bias in his info. He tels me Jayco and nothing else but I was dead set against that idea until I found that for repair, he was likely right. Easier to get a Jayco part than any other part it seems.

GregTheComputerGuy · Veteran Member

TimtheTruckie,

Tim, if I had your licence, I would likely be on the road full time years ago but working. I love long drives! Drove to Cairns and did it easily with 700K done each day, last year. Loved it but found the Bruce Highway boring as Batsh*t! Drove to Broken Hill (1100K) the year before TWICE because we love the place and just got up in the morning at home and 14 hours later were there. Sure, we did THAT easily too but we took the dogs with us for Broken Hill and we have to stop a little more frequently as a result. Still, when it said 46.5C outside as the car thermometer read it, even the dogs wouldnt budge out of the air conditioning when I simply HAD to stop! never use a road side dunny at 46.5C. You think you have smelled bad smells? Roadside dunnies at that temperature rewrite the rules on bad smells!

Dont see myself, even if I had that licence, doing it your way mate. I just dont have the money - and never will unless I win Lotto - to do that. Self employed because of 7 years unable to work due to health, before I got back on my feet again. Nobody wanted to know me after that so I made myself known my own way! ;-}