Lisence Endorsment Inevitable!!!

Radar · Guru

Lisence Endorsment Inevitable!!!

herbie · Guru

The report says it is for any caravan/trailer that is being towed. So to my way of thinking that means any length and 2 tonne,and yes it would include 5th wheelers as they are being towed via another vehicle.

-- Edited by herbie on Monday 2nd of September 2013 06:58:37 PM

-- Edited by herbie on Monday 2nd of September 2013 07:11:51 PM

herbie · Guru

Was just wondering what other members thoughts are on the report issued by the CCA,regarding the need for caravan/trailer- endorsed license in the not so distant future --CCA general manager is discussing this issue with recreational vehicle insurance companies.

The report goes on to say there was no doubt it would reduce the number of accidents and insurance payout as well as appreciably reduce the cost of insurance premiums.

Mark · Senior Member

All for it Herbie,

I know what my rig weighs and how long it is and I believe that it would be quite frightening for somebody with absolutely NO experience in handling this type of outfit........... bring it on!!

There will be those that follow the theory that you only learn by driving......... go practice on an airfield and take a test!!

Good post

Mark

Landfall · Guru

Rumour going around this caravan park was that an endorsement would be brought in for 5th wheelers and tandem caravans?

From observing a few of the owners of caravans trying to place there caravans on site, it can't come quick enough.

the scary part for us, is that these drivers share the road with us.

Ken

rockylizard · Guru

RE: Licence Endorsment Inevitable!!!

Tezzaworth · Member

RE: Lisence Endorsment Inevitable!!!

Gerty Dancer · Guru

Perhaps theres some drivers out there who might benefit from learning some of the things they obviously don't know. But whether they put that into practise seems optional.

jetj · Guru

Landfall wrote:
Rumour going around this caravan park was that an endorsement would be brought in for 5th wheelers and tandem caravans?
From observing a few of the owners of caravans trying to place there caravans on site, it can't come quick enough.
the scary part for us, is that these drivers share the road with us.
Ken

I recently watched a chap too and fro for around 3 hours trying to park his caravan on a CP site. I couldn't believe it, listening to his diesel tug for 3 hours without a break.

Bryan · Guru

My own opinion is I think its a bit of both, one is to learn how to safely load, tow and reverse a caravan and equally important a good dose of road etiquette.

I learned the hard way, I bought a Jayco camper and was very confident and comfortable with it. After a year I upgraded to a caravan, I don't know why but lost all confidence. I contacted Tow Ed and asked for a training course in Perth. They gave me a local contact, I spoke to the person's wife and waited 6 moths for a call back. After 6 months and no call back I decided to cut my losses, sell the van (never used, apart from the drive home from the dealer) and bought a little motorhome.

I just wasn't prepared to let myself loose on the road with little knowledge and zippo confidence in my abilities. Best decision I've ever made. I love the driving the van as much as I do my car.

cultana · Senior Member

Radar wrote:
Sorry people just another way of making money out of ordinary folk.
Just because you pass a test that don't make you a better driver. Semi trailer driver 46 years.
I hold a lots of plastic cards, got fines to go with it. Held CAMS licences for Motorsport.
Can still back out of my drive way and find things to hit.
Be at van park when I am trying to place the van it never goes where I want. It's a circus.

-- Edited by Radar on Sunday 1st of September 2013 10:01:08 PM

I am with you on this.

To me I can see it degenerate into a set of license endorsements one for a trailer, one for van, another for 5th wheeler and a possible subsets based on weight and length.

I also don't see too many current trailer owners forking out $400- $500 to get a bit of paper so they can tow their box trailer around. I would also suspect that it will be hard to prove that such endorsements make the driver safer. If anything it will lull the driver into a false sense of security in towing, that is the danger

Mark · Senior Member

I agree that to ban anybody towing a simple box trailer to get rid of the garden rubbish is a bit OTT, but I do believe that there should be some kind of standard to which trailer drivers operate their vehicles. It's like towing a caravan, how many of us carry a warning triangle (or two) for use when there is an unplanned stop??
Does anybody else carry a flashing beacon for emergencies??
Maybe more attention should be directed at the "what to do IF" scenario's as opposed to a towing course.
I'm sure that we have all seen some ridiculous things people do when towing, and have had to get involved to make a situation safe, maybe that's where the focus should really be.

My opinion

Mark

sandsmere · Guru

Yep ! Just a money grabbing idea from governments looking to squeeze every last drop out of us to fund their junkets .

Having a hundred licences doesn't make you a better driver .

It'll probably come in one day , but don't hold your breath .

Radar · Guru

Good morning People.

Take note when you see a truck broken down next time and see what happens to the triangles, it really amazes me how close motorist includes truck drivers with multi amounts of plastic cards go to the that vehical with the triangles out, smashed or at best knocked over.

Yes a training course would be good but to me by the time people are older enough to be able to afford a caravan they would have enough sense to be a bit aware of what there doing.

jules47 · The Happy Helper

May be a good thing - but as several have said, a licence doesn't make you a good driver. And that would also mean if husband and wife drive with the van on, they both need licences!!!! I don't drive much these days, and when I do it takes me a while behind the wheel to start to feel confident and comfortable with the size of the motorhome.

And as to the insurance companies - it might reduce the number of payouts, but there is no way it will reduce your premium!!!!!! This IS insurance companies we are talking about, after all!

brickies · Guru

This has appeared on the forum from time to time by all sort of sources but I think it will always finish up in the to hard basket .

Baz421 · Guru

Mark wrote:
I agree that to ban anybody towing a simple box trailer to get rid of the garden rubbish is a bit OTT, but I do believe that there should be some kind of standard to which trailer drivers operate their vehicles. It's like towing a caravan, how many of us carry a warning triangle (or two) for use when there is an unplanned stop??
Does anybody else carry a flashing beacon for emergencies??
Maybe more attention should be directed at the "what to do IF" scenario's as opposed to a towing course.
I'm sure that we have all seen some ridiculous things people do when towing, and have had to get involved to make a situation safe, maybe that's where the focus should really be.
My opinion
Mark

Geez Mark,,, we thinks so much alike it's bloody scary. On so many things I can't see anything to add after your post.

We carry an emergency light for night time use,,, bright green flashes etc although we very rarely drive at night.

Also agree 100% with - think of what ifs - ie blowout LH front tyre on sweeping bend to the right, what would happen at say 95, 80, or 75 kph, what would you do.

I used to teach some young drivers in the 70's what a jackknife was in semi trailers. We would take an old Inter C series on dirt road not open to the pubic and jackknife it and learn how to recover. It was hard to recover with vacuum brakes because of the delay coming on, hence air brakes became the new standard.

Many very confident young lads had VERY WIDE EYES the first time we did this exercise, but I like to thinks they would never jackknife anything on the road.

This is the type of training we need IMHO rather than blanket approval ie give people the skills to save themselves AND US.

herbie · Guru

cultana wrote:
D and D wrote:
Who. or what is the CCA? Google search brings up a number of organisations with a CCA acronym but none have anything to do with caravaning. Thought it maybe the Caravan and Camping Association or Caravan and Camping Australia but more google searches produced no joy there. So can some one enlighten me about who they are?
Caravan Council of Australia.
Not a report!

If this is not a report then please tell my what it is ?? This was a report issued from the general manager from CCA,to Caravaning News.

-- Edited by Webmaster on Wednesday 4th of September 2013 08:31:04 AM

cultana · Senior Member

herbie wrote:
Was just wondering what other members thoughts are on the report issued by the CCA,regarding the need for caravan/trailer- endorsed license in the not so distant future --CCA general manager is discussing this issue with recreational vehicle insurance companies.
The report goes on to say there was no doubt it would reduce the number of accidents and insurance payout as well as appreciably reduce the cost of insurance premiums.

And where does one get this report from?

That last sumarative paragraph of yours in interesting. I would love to see the real facts that CCA has that will prove such licence endorsements WILL reduce accidents and insurance costs.

My vehicle insurance goes up each year, even though I don't make any claims. Never heard of the insurance willing to drop premiums, unless their arm is being twisted.

Zoomtopz · Guru

a lot of good points raised .

I believe , the biggie that was missed was " a heavier vehicle".

'C-line Inters were modern gear when I got my semi license in a Leyland Super-Comet , but!

still had to use the trailer brake 1st & it was vacuum , which brings me to th weight thingie .

It was a shocker if you hit th foot break too hard too soon . I reckon , same sort of thing .

Most motorists only drive th car Most of th time , then they hook up & drive th same way .

Without adjusting to th weight factor . I suppose th accreditation factor will come in soon .

The 'lawyers will make sure' of it . In a court case , where I was giving evidence , were you

accredited in this were you accredited in that . I told him All my years of experience in this &that & I had a

road-train licence , a semi licence , a fork lift licence , a crane licence , I was in th scouts , th senior scouts ,

I was an AB in th Navy so I also had qualifications in rigging & how to tie different knots . But I was Not

accredited for tying down 'packs of glass on an A-frame' , the rest did not count . The law sided with him .

The experience - Next time you look at Chatswood in Sydney , with All those Glass buildings . I delivered

over 90% , yes that much , of that glass , most of it on a semi , with a hi-ab crane , & unloaded it myself ,

occasionally I could get close enough to th building crane to lift it off , I mentioned 12 other 'glass buildings'

in Sydney , so over 4-5 yrs carting all that glass , was not enough experience .

I suppose it will come though.

freehazzas · Senior Member

I think this will open up a big can of worms. If they are talking about trailers as well, then you have cattle stock trailers, horse floats, ect. Some horse floats are 20ft long carrying a moving cargo. I have no probs with this licence. I tow a fifth wheele, and also have a truck licence, but how will some of our older nomads go if they have to get a licence endorsed. Many will be put off the road.
I think its not a bad idea, but how they will make it happen without putting a great many that cant back ect off the road beats me.
You only get one go at backing in a licence test. Fail that and your done. Im yet to see enough nomads that can back a large van in with one go that will pass including myself at times ina squishy park.

Two Strays · Senior Member

Hello All

I see three things when Insurance Companies get involved with anything.

Money, Money and more Money out of your pockets.

Who said the premiums would be reduced. The money grabbing insurance companies could not give a hoot if you have an endorcement or not.

Can anyone name an insurance company who has significiently reduced their premiums because you drive well, towing a caravan/fifth wheeler.

I haven't. Everytime I get my insurance remittence notice in the mail they want to ensure my car and van for less value and charge extra for the privilage.

Regardless of how well you compare your driving with the so called nut driving in front of you, I say leave it as it is.

Look at how many endorsed driver have serious crashes on the highways and byways. Many of them killing themselves and others.

Happy Caravanning

Onedodger · Guru

sandsmere wrote:
Yep ! Just a money grabbing idea from governments looking to squeeze every last drop out of us to fund their junkets .
Having a hundred licenses doesn't make you a better driver .
It'll probably come in one day , but don't hold your breath .

Whilst I totally agree with the above.

A better Idea to my mind would be a reduction in insurance premiums for those that have an endorsed certificate for a towing course from an accredited training organization.

Baz421 · Guru

Onedodger wrote:
sandsmere wrote:
Yep ! Just a money grabbing idea from governments looking to squeeze every last drop out of us to fund their junkets .
Having a hundred licenses doesn't make you a better driver .
It'll probably come in one day , but don't hold your breath .
Whilst I totally agree with the above.

A better Idea to my mind would be a reduction in insurance premiums for those that have an endorsed certificate for a towing course from an accredited training organization.

Very good idea dodger,,, this is the practical stuff we need.

cultana · Senior Member

Firstly how many people have seen this report?
Where does one get a copy?

Second it appears to be something so far between the CCA and to quote herbie, the recreational vehicle insurance companies. A license is a state item so what is/are the current conversations with the appropriate state bodies?

So going on what has been said re this report then everyone who currently has a camper trailed/van/5th wheeler etc will have to now go and get some form of state controlled endorsement.
Not going to happen. Too much of a retrospective issues there.

What I do see is a faint possibility that if you do some "tow course" that the insurance company accepts you may get some reduction in your insurance premiums.

If it is applied to the caravan collective then why not to horse floats, box trailers and another thing being towed?

Horse floats can be big and even a standard tandem 2 horse wooden float with 2 horses is getting close to 1.5 2T, total weight plus its a very live load.

To discuss this fully one still needs that report.

D and D · Guru

Who. or what is the CCA? Google search brings up a number of organisations with a CCA acronym but none have anything to do with caravaning. Thought it maybe the Caravan and Camping Association or Caravan and Camping Australia but more google searches produced no joy there. So can some one enlighten me about who they are?

Mark · Senior Member

Baz421 wrote:
Mark wrote:
I agree that to ban anybody towing a simple box trailer to get rid of the garden rubbish is a bit OTT, but I do believe that there should be some kind of standard to which trailer drivers operate their vehicles. It's like towing a caravan, how many of us carry a warning triangle (or two) for use when there is an unplanned stop??
Does anybody else carry a flashing beacon for emergencies??
Maybe more attention should be directed at the "what to do IF" scenario's as opposed to a towing course.
I'm sure that we have all seen some ridiculous things people do when towing, and have had to get involved to make a situation safe, maybe that's where the focus should really be.
My opinion
Mark
Geez Mark,,, we thinks so much alike it's bloody scary. On so many things I can't see anything to add after your post.
We carry an emergency light for night time use,,, bright green flashes etc although we very rarely drive at night.
Also agree 100% with - think of what ifs - ie blowout LH front tyre on sweeping bend to the right, what would happen at say 95, 80, or 75 kph, what would you do.
I used to teach some young drivers in the 70's what a jackknife was in semi trailers. We would take an old Inter C series on dirt road not open to the pubic and jackknife it and learn how to recover. It was hard to recover with vacuum brakes because of the delay coming on, hence air brakes became the new standard.
Many very confident young lads had VERY WIDE EYES the first time we did this exercise, but I like to thinks they would never jackknife anything on the road.
This is the type of training we need IMHO rather than blanket approval ie give people the skills to save themselves AND US.

Well that's two people that agree which forms a consensus so that's it decided then!! Provide tools and give a discount to those that take part and pass.
TTFN

cultana · Senior Member

D and D wrote:
Who. or what is the CCA? Google search brings up a number of organisations with a CCA acronym but none have anything to do with caravaning. Thought it maybe the Caravan and Camping Association or Caravan and Camping Australia but more google searches produced no joy there. So can some one enlighten me about who they are?

Caravan Council of Australia.

Also the best I can come to what has so far been reported is this:

http://caravanningnews.com/ccatest.htm

Not a report!

D and D · Guru

cultana wrote:
D and D wrote:
Who. or what is the CCA? Google search brings up a number of organisations with a CCA acronym but none have anything to do with caravaning. Thought it maybe the Caravan and Camping Association or Caravan and Camping Australia but more google searches produced no joy there. So can some one enlighten me about who they are?
Caravan Council of Australia.
Also the best I can come to what has so far been reported is this:
http://caravanningnews.com/ccatest.htm
Not a report!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks for that info.

herbie · Guru

The report I read this report was from caravanning news.

I cannot see any thing wrong with anyone trying to bring some regulations into towing, but I also think it needs to be implemented at a national level not a state to state regulation.

There also needs to be a two way dip at regulations,there should be a national standard regarding ALL caravan builders, some of the sub standard caravans being and have been built are a death trap.

And regarding for insurance companies lowering their insurance policies ..I wouldn't be holding my breath on that one.