Freedom Camping - best letter I have ever seen on the subject

wazzawiseone · Veteran Member

Freedom Camping - best letter I have ever seen on the subject

Two Strays · Senior Member

Hello All

That letter hits the nail on the head.

Rumour Only

The caravan park at Clairview, Qld, has changed hands and there is a push to have the excellent free camping spot (Camps 7 site 85 ) classified a day time rest area only or closed altogether.

Note Only Rumour

Happy Caravanning

-- Edited by Two Strays on Tuesday 9th of July 2013 07:17:53 PM

Bent Axle Bob · Senior Member

smile Yes , Very good. Well written and many pertinent points made

herbie · Guru

Well written,but it is done and dusted .

And the caravan parks have won again,even if it is detrimental to every other business in town.

But then we should be asking were the other businesses in town for or against this move ?

justcruisin01 · Guru

So so true; I would like to know the thoughts of other business in the town, for or against. If you were in to area for a day it would be worth doing a survey on the rest of the town.

JC

Cupie · Guru

Well written & well reasoned letter.

The quote "being (discussed) on 'RV Fora' "got me. I think that is plural of 'RV Forum' as opposed to 'Forums'.

EllenajoeL · Senior Member

here's a thought....

re.....at every stop we buy fuel, groceries, meat, sometimes takeaways, sometimes souvenirs and tourist attractions, sometimes chemist, tourist, restaurant, clubs, pubs, hardware. Even our clothes and shoes wear out on the road.....

how much of those $ spent are actually supporting Australian made goods (and how much of those $ spent actually stay in Australia, for that matter)? For instance, I'd suggest fuel, groceries, takeaways, souvenirs, chemicals and hardware are often likely not, on either count.

I completely get that the local shops etc need support...its just a bit more complicated (eg franchises, multinationals etc).

Also, a lot of caravan parks are owned by locals, actual residents in fact, who spend locally at a lot like 365 days per year....as opposed to any nomad/nomads.

So the CP is more a part of the ongoing, local community health and well-being than against it, IMHO.

GaryKelly · Guru

Well written but the same old argument. I suspect what will happen is that the closure of freedom camping areas will eventually take their financial toll on the various businesses in the town and they'll all learn the hard way that CPs should keep their traps shut in future.

dazren · Guru

Thanks for the post I agree well thought out, and well written, and makes a lot of sense ? Also agree that it would be really interesting to know the thoughts of all the others Traders and businesses that will be effected, ?? confuse confuse

Ellen and joel wrote --------- re.....at every stop we buy fuel, groceries, meat, sometimes takeaways, sometimes souvenirs and tourist attractions, sometimes chemist, tourist, restaurant, clubs, pubs, hardware. Even our clothes and shoes wear out on the road.

how much of those $ spent are actually supporting Australian made goods (and how much of those $ spent actually stay in Australia, for that matter)? For instance, I'd suggest fuel, groceries, takeaways, souvenirs, chemicals and hardware are often likely not, on either count.

I completely get that the local shops etc need support...its just a bit more complicated (eg franchises, multinationals etc).

Also, a lot of caravan parks are owned by locals, actual residents in fact, who spend locally at a lot like 365 days per year....as opposed to any nomad/nomads.

So the CP is more a part of the ongoing, local community health and well-being than against it, IMHO.

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Sorry Ellenand joel, cannot agree with that veiw, ? as every business in every city and town in Australia, all sell the same products from the same sources, The fact remains that these businesses all make their living from the profits on whatever goods they sell, I worked for years selling range of Hose, fittings, Valves, and general engineering supplies, and traveled all over country Victoria, You will find that most larger businesses will purchase the BULK of their goods Direct from the larger companies in the bigger cities as the cost saving are significant,, and they go to the LOCAL store for the little odds and ends to finish the job, [ I also used to stock those stores with the same goods ]

I suppose what i am trying to say in a nutshell is ??? If they need to spend $200 they go to the local store ?? If they need to spend $ 2000 + they would by direct from me?

so local support yeah ?/ but on a limited level,

gordon_adl · Senior Member

The thing about the original person who wrote this, they are assuming an awful lot. I live in a very caravan friendly town. I can say for certainty that not every person who free camps stops at our local grocery store, butcher, fuel and other things. This person cannot know for sure that every single other person who chooses a free camp lifestyle does this also. It's the same story over and over again, people over inflating their value. Surely free camping is a good thing providing they obey all rules and regulations.

I just think for this person to state as a fact they buy something at every place and insinuate all gn's do so is an extreme exaggeration. I also think these types of letters do more harm than good. But it was certainly written in a decent manner and not confrontational. That is definitely a positive.

EllenajoeL wrote:

re.....at every stop we buy fuel, groceries, meat, sometimes takeaways, sometimes souvenirs and tourist attractions, sometimes chemist, tourist, restaurant, clubs, pubs, hardware. Even our clothes and shoes wear out on the road.....

Cruising Granny · Guru

I reckon Emerald is a great example of compatibility of both. There are 2 van parks in town. One really nice, with about 50% residents or long term tenants. I've stayed there and loved the ensuite-style bathrooms. Reasonably priced, especially for a mining town.
The other park in town is a bit scraggly and I've driven past it. To be fair I haven't pulled in or parked there.
Then there's the town "free" camp right down on the banks of the Nagoa River. If you can handle coal trains passing overhead, and the traffic going around, it's great spot right opposite Coles.
It's all part of the experience.
I see many good free camps with the "no-no" to trucks. These parking areas have bins and toilets.
The truck rest stops often have nothing but rough dirt, sometimes a bin, sometimes a toilet. Most vanners wouldn't park there.
Just as well because we take up a lot of room. If you do choose to stop in one of these overnight, please go as far back and forward as you can, so others can share the spot.
We have to be parked up by sundown, but sometimes it takes just a little longer to find enough space off the road for the night.
Happy to share the road.

spida · Guru

Come to WA!!!! I am amazed at the change from a year ago. DUMP points and TOILETS everywhere at the overnight spots! New sealed areas also. Well - that is my experience from Kununurra to Port Hedland so far. Cape Keraudren has at least 4 dumps and toilets!

Cruising Granny · Guru

Obviously it's an improvement on the one dunny they had when I camped there a long time ago.
The problem with WA parking bays is the best ones are for the tourists. Most of the well-equipped bays ban trucks.
There are some beauties along the Eyre Highway west of the border, but no trucks.
I realise we can't share because we make too much noise - aircons, fridges, booze ups around the camp, etc.
It just needs a bit of balance. NSW provides some good ones too, but not on the over-dimension routes we have to take.
My own worst experience was at Nullarbor R/house. A truck parked 2 vehicles from me in my camp bed, listened to a book all night. The speakers were in the doors, so I heard bits of book all night. I don't like to ask them to quieten down. They have their own ways of getting a good night's sleep after long hours on the road, broken by fatigue stops.

NeilandRaine · Guru

I put this under a previous post, however, I think it could be added here. Lets face it folks to us we are important but in the grand scheme of things travellers are still a minority.

Before we get to carried away with our own impotence, it is not the lack of or abundance of the travelling fraternity that make a town boom or bust. It is all about industry and work availability.
Motor cars make the big cities closer and the young ones who would of happily worked on the land or the local shop or welding shop etc now move on to greener pastures looking for work that isn't available at home. So much of what used to keep small towns going has now gone off shore, we allow, thanks to both sides of government, so much second rate produce from third world countries into Australia the farms cant compete. The world is changing thanks to globalisation and it would appear rural Australia is changing for the worst.
Don't blame the C/V park owners. In their attempt to keep the area viable the local council up rates, we all know the cost of power and water has gone through the roof. (maybe full time nomads might not notice the big increase in water and power as they don't have to pay for it) All the park owner wants to do is make a good living. You must appreciate that usually buying a caravan park is a big investment with a lot of risk. Don't condemn someone for wanting to get something back for their investment.
Count the amount of caravans and motor homes on the road. Most of these at one time were sold by a dealer who made around $2000/$3000 profit per unit. Maybe we should stop buying caravans to teach those greedy dealers a lesson, and I know we won't go the area the dealer has his yard.
These days the boom towns seem to be the ones who are supported by the mining boom, not grey nomads
Now what myself and SWMBO do is, we stop at every town we come to and look about, I would hate to think I missed something really interesting because the caravan park had the free camp closed. We might buy something we might not, after we have looked about we move on to the next town and our sight seeing is never determined by what is available in relation to camping. Sometimes we will pull into a rest stop, never more than a night, sometimes we might spend a few days in a nice free camp or by a river someplace and other times we spoil ourselves with a week in a caravan park, usually near a big town because there is more to see.
Anyway, I seem to be getting long winded so I will finish now with take off the blinkers don't miss whats going on around you because you don't like the politics.

GaryKelly · Guru

It's true that caravan parks are entitled to make a living. So are restaurants, but they don't try to close shops that sell food you can cook at home. Cinemas don't try to stop the sale of DVD players. Car manufacturers and retailers don't try to limit public transport. I'm afraid I don't understand the logic behind the argument that because CPs need to make a living, freedom camps should be closed.

herbie · Guru

Agree Gary in what you are saying.No one will pressure me into using/buying a product that or service that doesn't suit my needs'

I do not understand that caravan park owners are to scream and shout to every government/state department re free camping,but gee do you ever see them creating more caravan spaces in their parks...the caravan spaces are getting taken over by cabins in these very parks.

I did ask a park owner on this last trip why there was more cabins in the park from my last stay ..his answer was I get say $1000 per year for a powered site and I can get the per month letting a cabin out...So I think that is the answer ,they might be happy if everyone sold their RV

and rented one of their cabins each night we were away .

jetj · Guru

NeilandRaine wrote:
Before we get to carried away with our own impotence, it is not the lack of or abundance of the travelling fraternity that make a town boom or bust. It is all about industry and work availability.

Definitely not getting carried away with my impotence.

Gerty Dancer · Guru

spida wrote:
Come to WA!!!! I am amazed at the change from a year ago. DUMP points and TOILETS everywhere at the overnight spots! New sealed areas also. Well - that is my experience from Kununurra to Port Hedland so far. Cape Keraudren has at least 4 dumps and toilets!

The lack of toilets at rest/overnight stops was a really big factor in favour of going elsewhere. Thanks spida, WA is back on our list!!!

-- Edited by Gerty Dancer on Thursday 11th of July 2013 01:30:57 PM

gordon_adl · Senior Member

I reckon they may be screaming and shouting because other groups who want free camping also scream and shout. It's why I aways say calm and constructive dialogue is needed and not threats and accusations. When groups threaten towns with boycotts it's only going to get the parks and councils upset and get them on the defensive. Again, i'm all for freecamping. But when groups who are supposedly advocating for us to get more free camps send out threatening notices and use aggressive language it's not really going to help our causes.

herbie wrote:
I do not understand that caravan park owners are to scream and shout to every government/state department re free camping,

herbie · Guru

What I was trying to say re these caravan park owners screaming and shouting re free camping, is it my fault they brought into this type of business? Free camping has been around for ever and a day, surely before buying into a business one would do their home work first and a business plan of some type.One would only have to look at the way van/motor home camping supply businesses have re designed the way people can travel now,with out the reliance of a caravan park...If the van park owners had changed their business structure to encourage people into their parks maybe they would not find them self in the situation they are finding them self in now...Instead of changing the way they go about encouraging people in to the van park,they go to council/state/ fed gov depts wanting free camps closed.It is one easy fix for the park owner to then boost his numbers that ..have no choice but to stay there.

I recon more than half the people out on the road this very day would not be out there if they had to stay in caravan parks while away for the winter months .

The used van sales advertisments would go through the roof...As a lot of people doing this type of venture are only reliant on the pension

and that would not keep them in a van park for very long,as they have other expenses to be taken care of.

We get it shoved in our face all the time re a free country, well it is a free country,but not when it comes to caravan park owners.

sandsmere · Guru

Reported on another forum that the local council at Nyngan has done a backflip and reopened a free camping area to

keep the RV Friendly status .

This change is because of pressure from travellers and some local businesses in Nyngan .

Commonsense seems to have had a win . smile

Gerty Dancer · Guru

NeilandRaine wrote

Now what myself and SWMBO do is, we stop at every town we come to and look about, I would hate to think I missed something really interesting because the caravan park had the free camp closed. We might buy something we might not, after we have looked about we move on to the next town and our sight seeing is never determined by what is available in relation to camping. Sometimes we will pull into a rest stop, never more than a night, sometimes we might spend a few days in a nice free camp or by a river someplace and other times we spoil ourselves with a week in a caravan park, usually near a big town because there is more to see.

Ditto.

jetj · Guru

Fighting the Lobbyists against free camping is one thing, fighting those who do the wrong thing causing the loss of freedom camping another issue that may be harder to fight.

herbie · Guru

Sandsmere do not know what forum you read re Nyngun doing a back flip on the closure of the show grounds.

It is still enforced as a matter of fact they have just erected the signs at the sign to say camping is prohibited.

The only back flip the Mayor has done is he is going to email and send letters to everyone who contacted the council regarding this decision

out lining (laugh if you may ) the Nyngun is still a welcoming town with no boom gates up stopping travellers from stopping in their friendly town ..TO STOP-STAY-and SPEND.

sandsmere · Guru

Herbie , the info is that the showgrounds are still closed , but they have made another area at

the Shearing Shed museum , at the Dubbo end of town , available for short term free camping .

NeilandRaine · Guru

Probably a bit late to add to this conversation as it is no longer on the first page, however, I would like to add a few thoughts for consideration.
The caravan park owner gets blasted for being greedy and boycotts are threatened.
Ok Woolies and Coles are greedy for their share holders and have caused many small businesses to go to the wall....... How many people who refuse to visit a town because it has closed its free camp
shop in coles and woollies for the cheap fuel voucher. These very vouchers have caused a lot of independent servos to go to the wall.
Once upon a time small take aways were everywhere but along came Maccas and Hungry Jacks and a lot of fast food stores went to the wall. How many people who refuse to visit a town because it has closed its free camps stop of at maccas to use the free wi fi and get a cheap burger

Garykelly wrote
It's true that caravan parks are entitled to make a living. So are restaurants, but they don't try to close shops that sell food you can cook at home. Cinemas don't try to stop the sale of DVD players. Car manufacturers and retailers don't try to limit public transport. I'm afraid I don't understand the logic behind the argument that because CPs need to make a living, freedom camps should be closed.

These hackneyed arguments have been pulled out many times
Restaurants are there to give people a break from cooking, (also note above regards Maccas and H/Jacks) they don't sell uncooked food and not many people can afford to eat out all the time. They co exist and its no competition
A new movie comes out, it must have its run in the cinema and it is not released on DVD for some time after that and then the law prohibits the copying of the movie. But we copy them anyway
Car manufacturers also make the public transport vehicles so why would they stop it.

I am not against free camping, I free camp when ever I can but for every positive there is always a negative so banging your head against a wall will never change a thing.

The dog lady · Guru

jetj wrote:
NeilandRaine wrote:
Before we get to carried away with our own impotence, it is not the lack of or abundance of the travelling fraternity that make a town boom or bust. It is all about industry and work availability.

Definitely not getting carried away with my impotence.

I think that's "importance" but it may be a Freudian slip, or just a typo

herbie · Guru

Over night is all that is allowed.I just spoke to a lady here in Longreach who comes from there.

herbie · Guru

Also I forgot to mention the lady said that some of the shop owners in the town have started some kind of a partition up regarding the closure of the show grounds and the other thing she said that made us all laugh was if you have a HORSE you can get permission to stay there,but when you were allowed to stay there you were not even allowed to have a dog...WHOOF WHOOF !!

The other remark was that the wife of one of the owners of one of the caravan parks there wrote a letter to the council thanking them for the decision to close the show grounds,but I did add .. I wonder if it was the wife of one of the park owners who is on the committee of tourism

who was the biggest instigator of this decision.