Totally agree with Wombat, wait for a cruiser, 

My personal reasoning is that spare parts availability is a BIG consideration when travelling.
As I have mentioned before, I work in a garage in Broome, we have no end of vehicle awaiting parts from Perth, over-East, the far East, it's unreal.  
We see around 75% of the vehicles being Toyota - Troopies, Cruisers, Prado's, 75/80/90 series, they don't sit here waiting for part long and we don't get them from the local Toyota dealer either.

If you look on the web (Google it) and look up both Range Rover and Toyota service agents in Australia, that should be enough to help make up your mind.

Good luck with your choice and eventual purchase.

Regards

Mark

Thanks guys, I'll keep looking. My instinct keeps screaming TD LC, but I'm continuing to look for more fuel efficient options. We've also been offered an immaculate v8 105 series LC, but having owned a 60 and 80 series petrol cruisers, I'm not keen on going there again...especially with a v8. We'd never be able to afford to fill the bloody great big thing lol. It's an awesome car, tho,with relatively low ks, but I can't let myself be conned by a pretty car. I'd even settle for another 80 series (TD this time) if it was well maintained and not too ridiculous on K's. It's just so hard finding a TD LC, IN good condition under 200000 K's for under $25k ($30k at a push) . Plus I'm still trying to sell my 04 Navara and Russell's ve Lumina Commodore. I could do it without selling them if I had to, but I'd rather leave that money where it is and use the funds from our two cars to pay for the new one. Make sense?

Wombat 280 wrote:

---

Don't even consider petrol as a tug and certainly not a V8 if towing even a box trailer unless your the CEO of Caltex.

---

 
Absolutely!!

Thanks guys. Exactly our thoughts, Wombat, lol. Halo, do you have a car on gas? Does it give you any trouble? I've been told it's very hard to find gas in some area's . Plus, aren't diesel's "supposed " to require less maintenance and give fewer engine problems? My 60 series was dual fuel and it had virtually no guts on gas especially when towing . Would it be the same with a v8? Would it still cost less to run a v8 on gas than a 6cyl TD or plain diesel? Speaking of plain diesel, how do you think they'd tow as opposed to a TD? Would we be wasting our time buying a 6 cyl Diesel rather than 6cyl TD? Sorry for all.tthe questions, but thanks in advance.

The newer gas only and dual fuel vehicles run liquid LPG injection that is supposed to deliver more power than running on petrol alone. LPG fueled vehicles require less oil changes/servicing than petrol vehicles whilst diesel fueled vehicles require double the oil changes/services of petrol vehicles.(there are exceptions) If the vehicle is dual fuel then it will run on petrol when no LPG is available so availability is no problem. LPG is half the cost of petrol or diesel per litre, so as far as fuel costs go, running a vehicle on LPG instead of petrol/diesel is a no brainer IMHO.
Most taxis are either gas only, dual fuel or hybrid.....I've never seen a diesel taxi but that's not saying they don't exist.

But, for some strange reason people towing vans prefer diesel, and to be honest, if I had the cash I'd go turbo diesel with a Landcruiser, for no other reason than they are reliable...boring but reliable. Around town I'd prefer LPG for cost alone. My Territory is petrol purely because it was cheap to buy....a diesel version would have cost 3 times as much to buy (2nd hand), so I guess sometimes you have to cut the suit according to the cloth.

Flicka9736 wrote:

---

Thanks heaps Hako, very helpful. Mark, you also seem to know your stuff. What are your thoughT's on comparisons between, v8 dual fuel, 6cyl Diesel and 6CYL TD? I've looked at other options besides LC, but they really do seem the best way to go with a 20ft 2.8t (ATM) New Age Van. My TD 3.0lt Navara is fantastic for my horse float, but by my research, I'd be pushing the friendship asking it to pull our van around the country full time for the next infinity years! We take delivery I'm Oct, so I've got to get my **** together with the decisions about our tug.

---

G'Day Flicka

You asked for it!! 

Firstly Dual Fuel

From dual fuel you must be talking about petrol and LPG as there is no such thing as a true diesel and LPG conversion.   I personally would not have another petrol vehicle, for me diesel and towing go hand in hand.  All to do with torque and "grunt" long compression strokes and being able to labour a diesel engine.  I've towed with both, won't go back to a petrol vehicle again.  Even the Mrs agree's and she was a petrol head!!  

To have a true diesel conversion you would need to start machining cylinder heads to take spark plugs and installing low RPM pressure systems that will allow the vehicle to tick over and run at low rpm and there would also be a problem with compression ratios but now we are getting into serious typing!!

However there are systems out there known as fumigation systems which is a combination of LPG and diesel burnt at the same time.  This is achieved by injecting LPG into the air intake side of the engine, so what you use in LPG you save in diesel, if you run out of LPG it just reverts back to diesel, run out of diesel and your stuck where you are.

Cost I dont really know, the diesel gas article was produced in 2007 and then they were talking around $4000, I personally cant see how you would recoup the outlay. 
At this time, according to the historical records chart for pump prices,  in 2007, LPG was then at around 45 c/pl its now up in the 70 c/pl range so you have just lost 64% of your fuel savings.

http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=111111111&NID=21

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars/car_advice/car_fact_sheets/lp_gas

Now there is the subject of weight and loss of space.  

I'm sure you havent, but if you get a chance to feel the weight of an 80 litre LPG tank do so, its quite heavy and then there is all the brackets, pipe work and other bits and bobs, and on top of all this, where do you fit it??  Normally under the vehicle where the spare wheel goes, or in the boot/storage space area, this means you have just shifted the spare wheel somewhere else and lost space in the boot/storage area. 

Whilst on the subject of gas conversions, there are conversions for the use of CNG and LNG, Compressed and Liquefied Natural Gas.  However these fuel products are not available at the pumps, they are normally used in vehicles like city buses and local authority municipal  vehicles where they have their own refuel stations at the depot.

Thats the hard bit out of the way.

V8 6 Cyl 6 Cyl Turbo Diesel

With what you are going to tow, (and by the way, we loved the New Age and nearly bought one prior to building our own) it comes down to affordability, the V8 would be heaven on earth wouldnt it?  Youd probably not even know the caravan was there, but your gonna pay for it.

All thats left now is 6 Cyl & 6 Cyl TD and without any question it has got to be a 6 Cyl TD.

Now dare I add that all we have spoken about so far is, Range Rover (which I think has been put to bed) and LCs but now we are into the cost issue.  Well, Im not looking to cause a fight or start up another argument, but what about a Nissan Patrol, 6 Cyl TD 4.2 Litre, Ive attached an NMRA report on the vehicle, has the towing capacity, fuel returns, etc..etc..etc..  Just a thought!!

http://www.aaa.asn.au/roadtests/reports/338.pdf

I hope you find this information helpful, sorry it went on a bit but you did ask.

Have a lovely Sunday

Regards

Mark

 

-- Edited by Mark on Sunday 7th of July 2013 12:43:56 PM

-- Edited by Mark on Sunday 7th of July 2013 12:47:12 PM

Thanks so much Mark, extremely informative. I've just got a few more questions though,regarding the Patrol. I've found it very difficult to find a 4.2 patrol, there's mainly only 3.0lt. Wouldn't the 3lt engine be similar to my Navara? Would the 3lt TD patrol be worth considering, even though they only tow 200kg more than my Navara? I guess I didn't seriously consider the patrol as I assumed there was little difference between that and the car I already own. Am I completely off the mark or should I strongly consider the 3lt td patrol?

Flicka9736 wrote:

---

Thanks so much Mark, extremely informative. I've just got a few more questions though,regarding the Patrol. I've found it very difficult to find a 4.2 patrol, there's mainly only 3.0lt. Wouldn't the 3lt engine be similar to my Navara? Would the 3lt TD patrol be worth considering, even though they only tow 200kg more than my Navara? I guess I didn't seriously consider the patrol as I assumed there was little difference between that and the car I already own. Am I completely off the mark or should I strongly consider the 3lt td patrol?

---

Hi Flicka

I'm so pleased that you found the info of use, and informative, as you can imagine, it took a while to piece together and to keep it as short as possible.  
This reply won't be easy either!!

MY opinion...........

I would not consider the Patrol with a 3.0 ZD30 engine at all, sorry, it's not man enough, it would only be the 4.2 for me in TD version as the alternative to a LC......Nothing else!!
 
The "hand grenade" (melting pistons) only applied to the Patrol, not the Navara, and was on pre-2003/04 Patrol vehicles, (around that era sorry my head gets swamped with this kind of stuff) and there rests my case, you cannot expect the same engine that is in the Navara to;

a) lug the weight of the tug, (Patrol weighs more) 
b) pull a caravan as well, (200 kg allowance.... WHOOPEE DOO!!)

As well as all the extra weight that you WILL carry................. sorry, it's a fact, the serious traveller would struggle to live without being heavier than they should, hence why posts are put up about the police being in Norseman checking caravans!!  If we had nothing to fear, we wouldn't fear it??  

Next, to buy a vehicle and stick an after-market turbo on it does not work for me either!!  
When you add a turbo, it's not just about adding something at the top end, what about the additional stresses at the bottom end, crankshaft and big end bearings, both of which will  be subjected to greater forces than the standard original specifications were designed for.  Yes companies will do it, but for me, if this is your "home" then it has to be 100%, and a turbo on it's own is not 100%.  
Try ordering a set of crank bearings for a vehicle that can either have a turbo or be naturally aspirated, two different Pt No's!!
Then to make it really work you should have the injectors and injection pump upgraded and for the extra piece of mind you'd fit an intercooler.  what you have just spent would be better off spent on a stock standard vehicle off of the forecourt that is proven and reliable.
You take your vehicle and have this work done and it goes wrong, and I've seen it happen, then your dream start to a new life has just been shattered, in the last few weeks back on the tools I've been witness to that too, so sad, but, that's what happens.  

I have been involved in setting up race engines, & race engines that run on diesel, I've seen a lot go bang because the initial budget was low, eventually the right thing was done and the engine lasted a couple of seasons.  What goes in at the top affects the bottom.  

Sorry, but that's how it is.

Please buy either a 4.2TD Patrol or the LC
Good luck
Mark 

Hi Flicka

Your welcome, I've enjoyed it, however, in answer to your last question, What year is the earliest I should look at for either car, do you think? I'm afraid that I cannot answer that as it comes down to finances and only you and your better half know what it is you can or can't afford.  Very happy to offer the technical advice but I'm not qualified in the sales dept.
Good luck and PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE... let me know what the outcome is.  And of course we would all love to see some pictures posted when you get the new caravan.

Hope to see you around the traps one day.

Best regards

Mark 

 

 

Hako, I could only find half a dozen maximum, meeting my criteria under $35k on carsales and 5 or 5 on gumtree. Will keep looking though.