Advice for an absolute newbie

Baz421 · Guru

Advice for an absolute newbie

Newgale · Member

Hi

I'm such a newbie that my partner and I don't even head to hit the road until early next year. We're at the stage of vehicle browsing (motorhome). Since we are planning to do as much free camping as possible I have three basic questions.

1. Where can you top up water tanks- do garages allow you to do this (presumably at a cost). Should we get a pump and filter so we can use river water?

2. Even if we have solar I guess it's inportant to get a generator?

3. Where can we empty a toilet cassette if we're not at a site with a dump site?

Grams · Guru

Welcome Newgale,

I am a newbie too, we are not going on our trip until 2015 :( it seems to be forever.

From what I have seen and read, you can top up your water tanks at most rest stops in towns. In our town we have a beautiful shaded area opposite the caravan park, it has tables and chairs, toilets, BBQ area and water taps, so having a hose and connections is a must.

Sme people don't like the noise of generators, and prefer Solar, some have both. We have solar and the van we just bought, plus we bought the Honda 20i which is the quietest one on the market, but will only use this if we have too, or when we are on our own.

I was reading up on this too...if you use Chemicals in your toilet you can only empty it in the dump sites. If you use an Eco one then I imagine you could dig a hole in the bush and bury it (I'm not sure on the this so it might pay to wait for one of the others to answer it)

Have fun playing in the Playground

Roving-Dutchy · Guru

You can use river water for everything except drinking, a filter will not make non potable water safe, water is fairly readily available except in some out back areas where it may be a bit harder to obtain, but you can usually obtain drinking water but maybe not fill your tanks, usually garages are happy to provide water if you have purchased your fuel we stay in van parks often enough to empty the toilet at a dump point, don't have a generator and many that do carry them say they rarely use them, I would wait and see what your usage is, you can always buy one if you need one.
One of the best ways is to try before you buy by renting a motor home and get to know what your own needs are in a motorhome everyone is different.
David

Gerty Dancer · Guru

Welcome to the forum Newgale.

You can get water at garages, often at town parks, or visitor centres or caravan parks. Dont be tempted to put river water in your tanks unless you keep drinking water separate.

As for solar, depending on how efficient your set-up is and what you want to use it for, you may not need a genny.

I would suggest you consider joining the CMCA as they have a lot of advice specific to motor-homes, also can arrange insurance.

http://www.cmca.net.au/pages/index.php

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Hi - there is a book available from this site called - "Grey Nomads" or something like that - go to the shop on the home page. Great reading for a newbie. Also a copy of Camps Australia Wide no. 7 - is an essential item, in my opinion, has listings of free and low cost camps all over Australia, and also a listing of dump points. No. 7 is just out last month, and they usually do a new one every two years, so this one has current information in it.

Keep on reading this site - a wealth of information on here - and welcome to the site

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Welcome from me too Newgale, enjoy here and out in the playground.

Olley46 · Guru

Do yourself a favour , go into Bunnings and bye a four way tap handle ,if your chasing water some councils remove the tap handles because of idiots.

Lance C

Grams · Guru

jules47 wrote:
Hi - there is a book available from this site called - "Grey Nomads" or something like that - go to the shop on the home page. Great reading for a newbie. Also a copy of Camps Australia Wide no. 7 - is an essential item, in my opinion, has listings of free and low cost camps all over Australia, and also a listing of dump points. No. 7 is just out last month, and they usually do a new one every two years, so this one has current information in it.

Keep on reading this site - a wealth of information on here - and welcome to the site

I am reading the book The Grey Nomads at the moment, it's brilliant so full of great information. I am just going to search for the book Camps Australia Wide #7. I always like to do lots of research.

Grams · Guru

Olley46 wrote:
Do yourself a favour , go into Bunnings and bye a four way tap handle ,if your chasing water some councils remove the tap handles because of idiots.

Lance C

Thanks for the heads up Lance. I never would have thought of this

Hylda&Jon · Guru

We always travelled with a tap key which can be used on many taps (council, etc) when you are travelling. I'm sure you have all seen taps in parks etc that have no top on them so they can't be used. It can be very frustrating when you need water and finally locate a the tap & it can't be used.

Some people may think it's wrong to use these taps as they have had the top removed but, most times, it is only to stop kids and vandels leaving the tap running and wasting water.

cheers

Jon

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fix-A-Tap-Anti-Vandal-Garden-Tap-Key-Heavy-Duty-Includes-Cord-Handle-230188-/200903492189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ec6c8025d

Gerty Dancer · Guru

I got one at a hardware store for $5.

Grams · Guru

Thank you Jon, Our Hardware doesn't sell them, so I bought this one you linked to. Its great to have, even if you never use it, its there just in case

keiron · Senior Member

Hi. If you come accross a tap with no handle, and do not have a 4 way key, you can use a shifting spanner, multi grips etc to undo the tap spindle housing. This allows the tap washer to lift and water to come out. Tighten it again when finished. KB

Newgale · Member

Thanks everyone for some really great advice. I feel I'm on a great learning curve and I guess in reality will always be learning. I can't wait to get out there!

beiffe · Guru

Please do not use multi grips etc on the security taps as it eventually damages the shaft and then the handles don't work and then the council will either removed the tap altogether or but in another type that cant be used except for special taps handles.

The devices shown are available at all Bunnings and reputable hardware dealers, PLEASE buy one and use it when required and if you see someone walking over with other tools offer them the use of yours and then tell them where to get their own.

This is not a go at anyone as I know many feel that as long as they get the water it is OK but please thing of the long term use for all nomads.

Regards
Brian

beiffe · Guru

On the use of solar it is best to seek advise from the members here, but give a list of the expected appliances you THINK you may use and put it all in as there are many ways to cover this problem of what batteries to have and how to charge them.

I will assume your new vehicle has no batteries or solar and then you can adjust to what you have or want.

I have been existing on solar for nearly 5 years and only have experience as knowledge and do not confess to any specific knowledge of electrics.

Just my thoughts but I feel that you should plan for THREE days of no sun IF possible (eg you should be able to maintain your way of life for these three days with little or no sun) and also plan for about 3 hours of sun eg Winter. If you have 3 days of power and you can cover a days usage with three hours of sun you have a good chance of maintaining power 24/7 for the whole 12 months.

If your rig has no batteries yet or needs new batteries then do some research, as with all things there is batteries and batteries.

Some batteries only give about 20% of their capacity while the general batteries used by many can give 50% while there are others that allow at least 80%.

Also of consideration is the size and weight of batteries. An AGM 100 Ah battery can weigh over 30KG and deliver 50AH when new and fully charged where a 100AH LiFePo4 can deliver 80Ah for a weight of 15kgs. and also they are a lot smaller but they are normally only used by a small group (getting larger by the week) due to miss information from a few people. Also as a battery looses its power most deliver less voltage and therefore use more power for the same result, this is due to a complex formula you don't need to know just be aware of.

You can get extra solar if you supplement your solar capacity by having some portable panels as an other option as portable will give about 30% more if you follow the sun. eg move the panels about 4 times during the day.

you need to consider your refrigeration. eg gas/12v 12v or 240v. All have advantages and also disadvantages so consider all options.

Lights can use power if they are floro so consider changing all lights to LEDS.

Inverter power is another contentious discussion as some try to use the smallest inverter as possible but then reduce the items they can run. others select large inverters so they can run all, while some select both so they run the Tv and computer etc from a small unit and then bring the big one for heavy items. Do some research on the stand by power required for every inverter you look at. The size of inverter is also very dependent on the battery power available. This also comes back to the battery question above.

On generators there are many places they are not allowed and in lots of other cases they causes many arguments in many camp sites. It is cheaper to go to a caravan park for the few times you need to recharge a good system or just re adjust you usage till you get the power back in.

Dump points are appearing everywhere in our country and there are several places where you can get this list. Even to the point you can download the file into your GPS.

There are several schools of thought on what to use. Many use the cheap nappy soaker found in Woolies or cheap stores while others use the expensive chemicals which to me smell worse that the smell they are trying to cover LOL. If you use the nappy soaker you can dump into a septic toilet etc whilst the chemicals have to be disposed of at a designated dump point (always the preferred method for all types ).

I hope this is not to detailed or confusing but it will soak in as you search through the data available on this forum.

Take all the info in and decide where you want more info and then ask the question, just be aware that it can get a bit messy as many people here have many ways to solve the problem. We are all different so have different usage needs and solutions so consider them all and then make your decision as you have time to get all the info you need.

Regards
Brian

Baz421 · Guru

beiffe has some good points below but one area I would question is the provision of enough battery capacity for 3 days with no sun (ie cost/weight/rate of charge when sun is only out for 3 hours - you don't fully charge your batteriesetc etc)..

This is influenced by several factors.

1 Can you charge batteries if no sun - normally yes in motorhome/van - start engine.

2 You have the option of NOT using as much power - ie read a book not watch TV.

3 How far you "run down" your batteries daily - out AGM batteries have lasted 5 years so far (except one) and we run our batteries down to 50% daily for 3 years on the road) so you need to MATCH demand ie what yoy want, with SUPPLY and cost, weight, how critical is the solar charging if no/little sun.

Not a criticism so take this for what its worth.

keiron · Senior Member

Hi. At the risk of showing my ignorance would you please tell me what "100AH LiFePo4" is?

I suspect it is some type of "power pack", but never heard of it. KB

jetj · Guru

Hi KB

A lithium battery I believe.

Wendy santamaria · Member

Hi Newgate, I'm a newbie too so I went back to the oldest post on general tips and hints and wrote all the great ideas into a sturdy notebook. There are also some great publications around like " free camping" which u can get from a decent news agent and I believe the GN also have their own hints and tips book available on their home page. Happy camping!! Wendy

Wendy santamaria · Member

Hi keiron, 100ah refers to the max output of the battery and lifepo4 is the type of battery. Li is lithium, Fe is iron and Po is polymer. Lipo batteries will not lose their charge when left idle but do not like to have their charge below 3.2volts per cell. If the charge drops below this the compound can become unstable and the battery will swell. Disposal of damaged batteries requires immersion in salt water for two weeks b4 u can throw them away. Cheers wendy

beiffe · Guru

Wendy I will try and explain a little bit without technical BS and in simple terms as I see it.

LifePo4 is "Lithium Iron Phosphate" and there is also several difference compositions as well with in this type.

A 100 Ah Battery is the rated capacity but the thing you need to find out is the useable capacity of your battery.

Wet cells are about 20%, AGM about 50% and LifePo4 80% so a 100Ah will never give 100Ah. Lithium will if pushed but why get them so low when you have 80% and also no need to every get them to 100% if you don't want to where the others really need to be returned to 100% SOC within 24 hours which in our scenario is not possible.

The LiFePo4 batteries are very stable ( more so then most of the known types) they are not LIPO which is a different type altogether used mainly in model airplanes.

We regularly take the batteries below your proposed cell level and they have no ill effects.

In testing I took mine down to 6% SOC with a load of 50+ A and then recharge again with solar at 20+ A and they are still the same as when I put them in. Mine have had a real hiding as we used them in all the testing we did for nearly 18 months and I have been out on the road full time again for about 6 months so I have over 24 months of full time usage with only one day of 240 shore power for 3 hours as I had experience three days of rain and little solar and I was leaving the bus for 3 days un-attended and not sure of the forecast.

The batteries are used in space and have been and are in situations where they are drained to 0v for extended periods (I think it is 28 days) and then when the sun appears again they recharge and function as normal and have done so for many years.

We have done test where we have charged them at over 100+A continuous from dead flat to full charge in a short period. The cells were not even hot and we have done the same with discharge. When I run my aircon (the fridge is often running at the same time as well as computer etc) I can have over 40A @ 24v coming out of them and they don't care about it and don't get hot. Also there is no peuket factor so if you drain out 50A you need to return approx that for full charge again so no absorb or float to get to 100% and therefore no waste of solar etc.

When my batteries get nearly full my system runs my 240v hot water system for a set time to take some power out of the batteries so I can continue to charge at full rate. When this happens more than 7 times in one day I have water warm enough for a shower. That's a 1400w hot water system and I use a induction stove for my cooking starting at 1800w and then adjustable to whatever power I want. usually 600w for bacon and eggs for breakfast and about 1000w for boiling water

We now have about 40+ members using their batteries and they range from 100Ah @12v to 900AH @ 24v so both ends of the range and we also have a couple of off grid people as well so we are doing lots of different things with the batteries and testing lots of scenarios and none have experienced any problems and none of us run any fancy Battery Management system as they are not needed in the RV situation.

I hope this explains a bit and I am not nit picking just trying to enlighten people on the difference and trying to dispel some of the hype by people who either have never seen or used the batteries or are confusing them with other chemistry.

I am just giving my experiences and those of many who have taken the plunge and done the same as me. We all are using different charges / inverters etc and tackling the tasks often in different ways but that is what experimenting is about and how you get the best available.

There is nothing wrong with any type of battery if it does what you want, just that some of us want to get more from our batteries and the electric side of your vehicles and are prepared to experiment.

Regards
Brian