The Law and Suction Cup Holders On Windscreens For GPS etc

Duh · Guru

The Law and Suction Cup Holders On Windscreens For GPS etc

Happywanderer · The Master

They must be legal Duh, so many people have them attached to the vehicle windscreen.
I'm sure I read somewhere just recently they have to be attached on a certain part of the window, if I remember correctly it was low down and to the right corner so as not to block anything through the main part of the windscreen. Don't even remember where I saw that but do remember thinking that would make sense as would be in your view without having to lose concentration on the road.

Duh · Guru

Thanks HW, on my Outlander I have multiple airbags and the column for the windscreen on the drivers side has an airbag symbol on it so assume an airbag is hidden behind the plastic cowling, situating the holder in the bottom right corner may not be an option in my case as there are warnings in my book about mounting things in the way of airbag exits etc.

I was thinking maybe in the lower middle of the windscreen confuse

Delta18 · Guru

Basically as long as it doesn't obstruct your vision of the road then it would be ok.

Assuming that it is legal because lots of people do it is a trap. How many 4x4's have rod holders on their roo bar? They are illegal everywhere. Window tinting that goes below the swept area of the windscreen...illegal. The list is endless.

Vic, if you are mainly talking of a GPS, is your speedo nacelle recessed at all? I can sit mine on the ledge in front of the speedo and it works fine. No-one can see it (tea leaves) from outside and no tell-tale 'rings' on the screen when the bracket is removed.

Cheers Neil

Landfall · Guru

Lower right hand side of windscreen is correct - a requirement of Queensland only??

From what I have been able to gather in all other states it is a case of proving the device does not obscure forward vision.

That should be easy, just ask the copper to jump in and take a look. biggrin

No doubt everyone has observed that taxies have there devices on the RHS lower windscreen.

Ken

Happywanderer · The Master

Assuming it is legal as lots of people are doing it: Its a suction cup, you would expect it to suck to glass. You can't hold it in your hand.

I thought tinting front windscreen was illegal. Only the sides and back can be tinted. I may be wrong.

Duh · Guru

Delta18 wrote:
Vic, if you are mainly talking of a GPS, is your speedo nacelle recessed at all? I can sit mine on the ledge in front of the speedo and it works fine. No-one can see it (tea leaves) from outside and no tell-tale 'rings' on the screen when the bracket is removed.
Cheers Neil

I'll have a look at that Neil, thanks, I think mine might have sloped perspex, have to have a look.

On my last trip on my own, I just sat it on the passenger seat (face down as the speaker was on the back, and I tend to listen to the voice rather than watch the screen). However at one point I was wondering why the voice instructions were telling me to turn right instead of left etc before I twigged I had the screen turned the wrong way around (giving instructions for travel in the opposite direction (DUH!). But othewise worked well.

HW, in WA, we are allowed to have tinting (legal amount of tint) along the top of our windscreens, providing it does not exceed past the sun visors (guide used by tinters) when they are in the down position. I notice that some cars these days have a pull shade on the side of the sun visors to exclude the sun shining between the visors when driving into the sun. On our last trip around Oz, I had to make one up out of cardboard to block it out in that area, attached behind the mirror.

Duh · Guru

Landfall wrote:
Lower right hand side of windscreen is correct - a requirement of Queensland only??
From what I have been able to gather in all other states it is a case of proving the device does not obscure forward vision.
That should be easy, just ask the copper to jump in and take a look.
No doubt everyone has observed that taxies have there devices on the RHS lower windscreen.
Ken

Thanks Ken, best to try to comply with all states if possible for around Oz as some of us travel in most states and don't want to get pinged there. hmm

Duh · Guru

This link applies to the use of GPS apps on Mobiles etc, see;

http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/319492/driver_alert_it_illegal_use_gps_navigation_your_smartphone_updated_/

This is from the NRMA Motoring Blog; http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2012/10/30/new-road-rules-for-nsw-motorists/

From 1^st November, 2012 the road rule changes are as follows*:

No holding your mobile phone in the car: The laws make it clear that a driver in a moving or stationary vehicle (unless parked) MUST NOT HOLD a phone in their hand other than to pass the phone to a passenger. A driver can only use a mobile phone to make or receive a phone call, while driving if the phone: (1) is secured in a mounting fixed to the vehicle, or (2) can be operated by the driver without touching any part of the phone, for example through the use of Bluetooth technology and is not resting on any part of the drivers body.
Any visual display unit must be fixed in the car: A visual display unit such as a GPS (including a mobile phone), may only be used in the car if it is secured in a commercially designed and manufactured fixed mounting. It must be positioned in the vehicle to not distract or obscure the drivers view.

-- Edited by Duh on Tuesday 26th of February 2013 10:07:30 PM

herbie · Guru

Why not have a national rule regarding these type of rules, it is confusing and frustrating for the travelling public,even worse if you are from o/s, when us locals do not know from one state to the next what is required.We can become a law braking citiizen,and never had a blemish to our name.Then again i guess it is revenue when we get pinged.The other thing that needs to be uniformed all over Oz is the rego label sticker.We have some states with it and others not.When it came in , in WA ( no sticker on windscreen ) we got pulled up in SA for not despaying it,The copper who pulled us up was on a police bike said he did not know about that rule.He did this long drawn out check over his radio and came back and said to us ..Well you learn some thing every day in this Job....

hako · Guru

Sticking the GPS on the windscreen makes it very attractive to that certain type of person who 'collects' such things. Hiding it under the seat but leaving the tell-tale suction cap ring on the windscreen is also a good clue for this type of person. Usually they have the power cord attached so are easily sold on.
We just sit ours wherever is convenient...sometimes on the dashboard, clip it to the vent or even the instrument panel. Modern units are more efficient and do not have to have a full view out the windscreen. We also find that stuck to the windscreen makes it hard to see due to the bright background, plus it's just saying 'steal me'.
But then, to each his own.

Duh · Guru

hako wrote:
Sticking the GPS on the windscreen makes it very attractive to that certain type of person who 'collects' such things. Hiding it under the seat but leaving the tell-tale suction cap ring on the windscreen is also a good clue for this type of person. Usually they have the power cord attached so are easily sold on.
We just sit ours wherever is convenient...sometimes on the dashboard, clip it to the vent or even the instrument panel. Modern units are more efficient and do not have to have a full view out the windscreen. We also find that stuck to the windscreen makes it hard to see due to the bright background, plus it's just saying 'steal me'.
But then, to each his own.

I agree Hako, they can be an oxygen thief magnet, mine usually has the cigarette type plug in too so the battery doesn't run out (which it did near the end of one trip). I don't think I'll bother with the holder, like I said I mostly don't both looking at mine, just listen the to voice instructions.

Duh · Guru

herbie wrote:
Why not have a national rule regarding these type of rules, it is confusing and frustrating for the travelling public,even worse if you are from o/s, when us locals do not know from one state to the next what is required.We can become a law braking citiizen,and never had a blemish to our name.Then again i guess it is revenue when we get pinged.The other thing that needs to be uniformed all over Oz is the rego label sticker.We have some states with it and others not.When it came in , in WA ( no sticker on windscreen ) we got pulled up in SA for not despaying it,The copper who pulled us up was on a police bike said he did not know about that rule.He did this long drawn out check over his radio and came back and said to us ..Well you learn some thing every day in this Job....

I think we all agree with that Herbie, we should have standard National laws and road rules in all states, especially in these days of a very mobile population, makes it so dam frustrating as you say. Even those who travel by air or otherwise to another state and then hire a car it affects us all.... furious

Yuglamron · Guru

Saw one "IDIOT",young guy recently with the drivers seat reclined so his head was just above the level of the side window.Baseball cap back to front with the GPS unit smack bang in the middle of the windscreen right in front of the driver.Restricted view? For sure.

Doesn't deserve to be on the road with that amount of vision reduction.

Oh and earphones in as well.

Red P plater too.

Baz421 · Guru

Here's some info from SA regs, however as a general rule vehicles must comply with Australian Design Rules, which are quite complex to interpret (as was my job years ago).

31Driver's view and vehicle controls

A motor vehicle must be built:

(a) to allow the driver a view of the road and of traffic to the front and sides of the vehicle so the driver can drive the vehicle safely; and

(b) with its controls located so the driver can drive the vehicle safely.

42Television receivers and visual display units

(1) A television receiver or visual display unit must not be installed in a vehicle so any part of the image on the screen is visible to the driver from the normal driving position.

(2) However, subrule (1) does not apply to:

(a) a television receiver or visual display unit that cannot be operated when the vehicle is moving; or

(b) a driver's aid in any vehicle or a destination sign in a bus.

Examples of driver's aids

1 Closedcircuit television security cameras.

2 Dispatch systems.

3 Navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system equipment.

4 Rearview screens.

5 Ticketissuing machines.

6 Vehicle monitoring devices.

(3) A television receiver, or visual display unit, and its associated equipment in a vehicle must be securely mounted in a position that:

(a) does not obscure the driver's view of the road; and

(b) does not impede the movement of a person in the vehicle.

See the red bit above it's the key here in SA.

Cheers Baz

Duh · Guru

Thanks Baz

smile

blaze · Guru

I have mine mounted above the rearvision mirror, power runs up the a pillar and has no trouble with reception
cheers
blaze

Landfall · Guru

And there in lies the problem?

"does not obscure the drivers view of the road?"

What would be the definition of "obscure?"

No vision, a loss of ??percent?

For instance, in our vehicle I have the tyre pressure monitoring system LCD and the GPS both in the middle of the windscreen, at the lowest point possible.

Because the seating position is high, I look over them at the road.

When I complied with the Qld. law, I partially obscured the lower right hand side view of the road, hence the move to the centre.

The solution would be to have it lower down in the dash, we previously had a vehicle with one built into the dash and found it very distracting/dangerous to look down.

Has anyone been pulled over yet?

More likely to be pulled over for another offence and then the GPS thing tagged on for good measure. confuse

Ken

Sheba · Guru

When I have mine in use, I have it on the lower right-hand side of the windscreen, where it is easily visible, yet doesn't interfere with vision.

I believe I have seen this quoted elsewhere as the recommended position.

Cheers,

Sheba.

Duh · Guru

Sheba wrote:
When I have mine in use, I have it on the lower right-hand side of the windscreen, where it is easily visible, yet doesn't interfere with vision.
I believe I have seen this quoted elsewhere as the recommended position.
Cheers,
Sheba.

The actual position seems to be a grey area Sheba from what I can see or have read, although your position seems to be the most favoured among users. So far I can only find this info as stated in my other post as to the legal position in mounting them (in NSW anyway);

"A visual display unit such as a GPS (including a mobile phone), may only be used in the car if it is secured in a commercially designed and manufactured fixed mounting. It must be positioned in the vehicle to not distract or obscure the drivers view."

neilnruth · Guru

We have ours in the middle below the rear vision mirror - simply because my husband usually asks me to tell him what it is saying and I need to see it as well as him. If it was on the right hand side, and I was driving, I would have problems seeing as I am short. Even the side mirrors can sometimes cause a problem for me and yet they are a fixture. Lots of 'grey' areas with this ruling.

Baz421 · Guru

Hi Guys and Gals the info below A-C is from Australian Design Rules,,,,,,, yehhhhhhh you see how scientific they are..........

A) FIELD OF VIEW the area within a cone of vision having an included apex angle of 40^o and the axis horizontal and parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle loaded to the design load on horizontal ground. The apex of the cone shall be a point midway between the eyes of the Drivers Eye Position (ADR 12).

B) DRIVERS EYE POSITION The position for eyes corresponding to the rearmost eye position on the 95th Percentile Eye Ellipse (ADR 12).

c) 95th PERCENTILE EYE ELLIPSES - defined and positioned as in SAE documents J941 (November 1965); J941a (August 1967); J941b (February 1969); J941c (June 1972); J941d (February 1975); J941e (March 1977); J941 MAR 81 - ... Drivers Eye Range; or in ISO 4513 - 1978(E) - Road Vehicles - Visibility - Method for establishment of eye ellipses for drivers eye location, suitably handed for right-hand steering.

I would take the literal meaning of what I posted previously,,, ie If WHATEVER you fit on/above/near/next to ANYTHING fitted to a vehicle that complies with the ADR's , and when you sit in the drivers seat, IF IT OBSCURES YOUR FIELD OF VIEW AND YOU CANNOT SEE THE ROAD SURFACE ANYWHERE (even 5%) IT IS PROBABLY ILLEGAL.

When interpteting this "in the field" we had many discussions with police and legal eagles, and use the literal meaning of the words if the definition of the words is not specified,,,,, ie what do the words say to reasonable man - does not obscure the driver's view of the road.

Definition of literal

<:section class=senseGroup>

adjective

1taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration:

Yes I'm bored tonight so typed this for your pleasure and entertainment if you read it,,lol.

Baz

neilnruth · Guru

Even sounds like Professor Sumner Miller! Haha.

Baz421 · Guru

neilnruth wrote:
Even sounds like Professor Sumner Miller! Haha.

Ah so you are my vintage,,,,,, his Tv shows were fabulous, I wish the grandkids could see him. He made science so much fun.

hako · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
neilnruth wrote:
Even sounds like Professor Sumner Miller! Haha.
Ah so you are my vintage,,,,,, his Tv shows were fabulous, I wish the grandkids could see him. He made science so much fun.

The grandkids can see him - on YouTube:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCcZyW-6-5o>

Just his voice brings it all back.

Baz421 · Guru

Thanks Dennis

herbie · Guru

I have a domestic with miss Rhonda ( my pet name for her )' Nav man ' almost every trip we take together, but i cannot leave her home or i would get lost, as my wife can only read a map up side down she recons.

Duh · Guru

Thanks for the info Baz, cripes what a lot of gobbly gook (techo speak) that ruling is for us mere mortals.

Thanks for the interpretation. Yes I like the Professor too, he told it like it was.....like his chocolate addy too!

One good thing about the GPS Herbie, you can give her a mouthful (Rhonda, mine is Karin) and she doesn't answer back, lol.