Stung by Caravan Site Fees

Veejayh · Member

Stung by Caravan Site Fees

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Welcome to the forum Veejayh - and I understand your reaction ... but perhaps a word of advice (from experience). Given you have spent the majority of your 'travelling' time 'house sitting' over the past 18 months you may not be aware of the "world of travel accommodation" - be it motel, hotel room, van park cabin, on-site van, or powered sites. Not only do these 'accommodation providers raise their tariff, often the local business also raise their prices to "cater for the tourist trade" ... in fairness, they often get 60% of their annual income from the 10% of the year that is the 'tourist season'. The 'off season' price is usually kept low to attract travellers so the provider can maintain some semblance of 'occupancy rate' to keep the revenue side of the business 'ticking over' for the rest of the year.

In any area that is a "tourist area" - ie where "ordinary folk" gravitate at particular times of the year (School holidays, Easter, long weekends, major events etc) the fees/prices will rise - often double the 'off-peak' rate.

The solution is to try to avoid 'tourist areas' in the 'tourist season/s' ... try to only visit those places in the 'off-peak'. If you are travelling through a 'tourist area' and just want to spend a couple of days in a van park - re-charging batteries (yours and the vans ), catching up on washing, re-filling your water etc - then stay in the smaller towns that are either on the fringe or away from the 'tourist area'.

Not only will the tariff be more reasonable, the park is usually much quieter, the locals friendlier and the smaller town usually welcomes you $$$ contribution. If you want/need to visit the "tourist attraction" at the "tourist town" then you can always make it a day-trip perhaps.

I have been travelling full-time for four years (and entering the fifth year ) and I avoid tourist areas completely in the "season". That way I have a much quieter, relaxing, fulfilling and enjoyable lifestyle

[edit: Gday agen Veejayh - you posted before my reply hit]

Cheers - and happy (low-cost) travelling - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 31st of January 2013 10:11:15 AM

Veejayh · Member

We've been on the road now for just on 18 months, and do a bit of house sitting along the way to mix up our travels, get a feel for a particular area and also it prevents cabin fever being in the van 24/7!

I'm guessing we've been pretty "lucky" up to this point, as it seems we've managed, (without really trying) to have bee house sitting or visiting family during 'peak' periods (Easter, Christmas hols etc)., so our average powered site fee since leaving Townsville in August 2011 has always been around $30, often lower and in some lovely grassy parks.

We arrive at Lake Mulwala yesterday (having spent the last month in Nagambie, house sitting a 15 acre property on the banks of the Goulburn river), and were staggered at the cost of our powered site: $46 per night! Extortion! Apparently it reverts to $28/night on the 1st Feb. However for our $46 per night we are camped on dirt. Not even a grassy site. The view over the lake is pleasant and the sunset last night was stunning, so that compensates somewhat, but it puts me off wanting to return, and consequently local businesses will also miss out on our $$$. Is this really fair?

I now understand why there is so much discussion about the extremely high site fees, and how unfair it seems to Grey Nomads, who are supporting these parks throughout the year, not just peak season, so if there's a petition or something that could be signed regarding these outrageous site fees, I'd be happy to sign it!

fireheart · Senior Member

I just have to ask, were the facilities available to you, were they clean and well maintained, did you use the electricity and water, and feel safe? This all needs to be paid for by the operator. I personally do not believe that $46 per night amounts to extortion. I guess the other thing is that you would have known the price before continuing the checkin process.
I know I have probably caused a ructious(no sure of the spelling there), with my answer, however having been in the hospitality industry over a number of years the cost for providing services are huge at times.
Having travelled in September to the NT we paid up to $48 per night in some parks and I was always impressed with the facilities, the cleanliness of the parks, and staff that were always helpful. We were on holidays with our grandchildren granted and it was the best way to go for us at the time, but they had pools, bbq's amenities blocks, dump points and rubbish bins, electricity, water, and security.
When it all comes down to it, courses for horses I guess. If I ever sell my house and venture out full time on the road then free camping will be my option most of the time, with the occasional night in luxury at a CP.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

gordon_adl · Senior Member

I too get annoyed at the choice of words used to describe some places. 'Extortion'? Come on, nobody forced a gun to your head and forced you to stay there.

Is it unfair to grey nomads but not unfair to other travelers?

I get that many are on a pension and some cannot afford some of these prices. I would love to take a cruise around the world on the QE2, but I cannot afford it. However I don't think they're extorting me because I cannot afford it. It's just the way the world is. It's their peak season so of course prices are going to be higher.

You clearly enjoyed the lake and sunset. Sounds to me you've got what you paid for.

Onedodger · Guru

Hi Veejayh and welcome to the forum. Thankyou for an interesting couple of posts.

We are also on a limited budget when we travel and do take the time to plan our stays.

Mostly we try to bush camp on a river as we both love fishing.

However there are times when we really need to be in a town for medical supplies or just to see a good movie or have an outrageous night out and it is at these times we grin and bear the cost.

On our years of traveling we have found many small towns that appreciate our attendance and often the tariff is very low.

EG. Jericho + nil for 48hrs then $15 at the showground. Meandarra $5 yes only $5 per night at their caravan park which is very basic but clean with all the amenities we want. Aramac where it was $15 per night for 2 nights then the next 2 nights free, we had a great time in their town and the locals were very friendly.

There are many others we have been to over the years and usually we top up everything before we leave like Fuel food etc as a compense to the locals.

If you do your homework and do not want places that have Jumping Castles and all the bells and whistles you will find many a small town very inviting.

We were in a small community with no Van park and were having a counter lunch at the local pub and casually asked the proprietor where was a reasonable camp spot within 50k or so and the lady said you can set the van up behind the pub if you like. So we took up the offer had dinner with them and had a great night out learning where the local fishing hole was went and camped there for three wonderful days.

As I know that you may already know this however others that read this thread may learn something also.

See Pic Below for campspot.

-- Edited by Onedodger on Thursday 31st of January 2013 05:14:17 PM

msg · Guru

Theres a free camp just down the road about 1or2 k's. I think its called Kiffins Reserve.

Yuglamron · Guru

I will probably get the figures wrong but here goes.

I was told late last year that because of the HUGE loss of sites in CP's to the mining industry here in Qld. that there were people prepared to put up their money to build new CP's in those areas.Gladstone for one where it's very difficult to find any camping sites.

When they researched the development costs in building a new park the figure of $26K per site was bandied about. Govt fees etc etc. (Figures I was Given,correct I don't know)

In anybodies terms that is a ridiculous figure and no wonder there are very few parks on the drawing boards.

If that figure is correct,I have tried to research that, but it costs money just to find out about the cost to develop a park.

Whatever,it would explain why so few CP's are on the drawing boards.

Surely the State Govt shoud step in and fast track and drop development costs, especially where there is a shortage due to the mining and resources industries.

Campbell Newman has asked for feedback around the tourist driving holidays in Qld so the state can attract the travelling public.

I sent in a submission along the lines of this post and have heard nothing back at all not even an acknowledgement.

The other part of my submission was about the doubling of site fees in CP's during Public Holidays etc. Any other industry and questions would be asked.

"Profiteering?"

The other submission was the Kowtowing of councils to the Minority businesses CP's who object to Showground and lowcost camping sites.

What about the rest of the businesses who lose the tourist dollar when people then bypass those areas.

My two bobs worth.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Welcome from me Veejayh, enjoy here and out in the playground.

I have just set up a good 12v system and solar power so hope to free camp a lot more than before. I still intend to stay in CV parks sometimes as well.

Make sure you check out the rest of this great forum as you will learn a lot from some very knowledgeable people and remember that people can only give their oppinion's so you just put it all together and usually come up with a solution to maybe what was a problem. Never be afraid to ask questions as no question is silly, and,

Gerty Dancer · Guru

We make choices as we go along, if a place can be visited economically , then we do so.

Sometimes we end up paying very high fees, as in Broome in July because theres no option if you want to be there. We enjoyed our visit but wouldnt return to that particular caravan park because of the soft red dust and no grass, it was crowded and the amenities were pretty ordinary although clean. We always had the choice to give it a miss, so we only stayed 3 days before moving to somewhere nicer but out of the town that suited our budget better. Such is life, the summer months in Broome are pretty quiet for caravan parks, they have to earn their annual income in their winter.

gordon_adl · Senior Member

If that's all you're getting than you're getting ripped off. I'm getting 4.75 % in a normal savings account and can take money in and out without any fees nor the interest rate changing.
Edit...Sorry I've quoted the wrong person but can't be stuffed redoing it all. My point is the same though.
way2gokev wrote:
, you can today easily get 3.25% risk free in an internet savings account or 4.5% for a 1 year term deposit,

-- Edited by gordon_adl on Thursday 31st of January 2013 05:40:54 PM

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

for us its FREE camping all the way, not overpriced caravan parks.

vkgreenie · Senior Member

We too have been hiding in Bris Vegas during these holidays, and were to move on after the Australia Day weekend. We went for a little seek and find mission down the Gold Coast to see the rates. Our biggest shock was the Tallebudgera site...................$64.00 a night do you mind, and doesn't drop that much after the long week end.

We found that the Tweed parks were over the top as well, but dropped dramatically from the 29th January.

All parks in the Gold Coast area are owned by the Gold Coast City Council, and the the Tweed parks are owned by the Tweed Heads Council. so say no more.

Bring on the 1st Feb.....which is only tomorrow anyway, however both the Gold Coast and Twees area have been ravaged by floods and foul weather, so maybe they (parks) may be a little more tolerant to an affordable rate.

Cheers and beers

Santa · Guru

Veejayh wrote:
We've been on the road now for just on 18 months, and do a bit of house sitting along the way to mix up our travels, get a feel for a particular area and also it prevents cabin fever being in the van 24/7!
I'm guessing we've been pretty "lucky" up to this point, as it seems we've managed, (without really trying) to have bee house sitting or visiting family during 'peak' periods (Easter, Christmas hols etc)., so our average powered site fee since leaving Townsville in August 2011 has always been around $30, often lower and in some lovely grassy parks.
We arrive at Lake Mulwala yesterday (having spent the last month in Nagambie, house sitting a 15 acre property on the banks of the Goulburn river), and were staggered at the cost of our powered site: $46 per night! Extortion! Apparently it reverts to $28/night on the 1st Feb. However for our $46 per night we are camped on dirt. Not even a grassy site. The view over the lake is pleasant and the sunset last night was stunning, so that compensates somewhat, but it puts me off wanting to return, and consequently local businesses will also miss out on our $$$. Is this really fair?
I now understand why there is so much discussion about the extremely high site fees, and how unfair it seems to Grey Nomads, who are supporting these parks throughout the year, not just peak season, so if there's a petition or something that could be signed regarding these outrageous site fees, I'd be happy to sign it!

Perhaps not extortion, certainly outrageous, I'd drive away before paying $46 a night.

The practice of bumping fees during peak periods is profiteering, it usually only works while there is little competition and in the long run will take care of it's self.

johnnz · Senior Member

I think it's a fact of life in Australia, just how expensive just about everything is not just CPs are. Now I travel overseas a lot infact I spend around 6 months every year in North America.

In the US CPs cost around $20 $25, unless of coarse you want to camp on the California coast where you can pay $50 for a beach side spot. National and state parks are so much cheaper all under $20.

If you travel say in Utah, these costs are much less, and Utah is a far better state than the Bear state

.

Food costs around a third of the cost of Australia and diesel around $3.50 a gal.(4 litres).

Even compared to Europe we are certainly fleeced well in Aus.

Johnnz

brickies · Guru

We get post like this all the time we grey nomads have plenty of time to do research on our travels, We don't travel in school holidays because of cost and bad weather , Have you any thought to what caravan parks would have to charge if we didn't have lots of people wanting to go to the same place for there holidays . IF caravan parks were gold mines why is it nobody is out there developing new one, I received my insurance for my home and content $2610 for the year $50 a week how much would these caravan parks on the seaside be paying , It simple if you want to go when ever it suit you pay the money or go to Greens

Roving-Dutchy · Guru

johnnz wrote:
I think it's a fact of life in Australia, just how expensive just about everything is not just CPs are. Now I travel overseas a lot infact I spend around 6 months every year in North America.
In the US CPs cost around $20 $25, unless of coarse you want to camp on the California coast where you can pay $50 for a beach side spot. National and state parks are so much cheaper all under $20.
If you travel say in Utah, these costs are much less, and Utah is a far better state than the Bear state
Food costs around a third of the cost of Australia and diesel around $3.50 a gal.(4 litres).
Even compared to Europe we are certainly fleeced well in Aus.
Johnnz

But don't forget their minimum wage is about 1/3 what you get paid here. there are very many poor people on the streets, they don't have the social services that we have, they don't have Medicare like we have.

2 years ago my wife spent 5 hours in emergency in a large Los Angeles hospital and the cost came to $9000

Yes some prices are lower and one of the reasons is that there is greater competition, but also the average American is nowhere near as wealthy as the average Australian we are the second wealthiest country in the world and I don't think many of us realize how lucky we are to be living in Australia.

We have encountered almost minimal harm from the GFC, whereas many countries now have massive debts and things will never be the same for most of their population in their lifetime.

All we seem to be able to do in Australia is to find something to grumble about, look around you and count your blessings.

Cheers

David

gordon_adl · Senior Member

I agree roving...i've said it before and always live but it...be thankful for what we have. And also give some of these councils a break, they're not all well to do city lifers and they just don't have $250 grand to splash out to widen roads for larger carparks, can't always afford to upgrade showgrounds and other such requests.

jetj · Guru

Hi Veejayh and welcome to the forum. Good that you posted.

I think $46 a night is very expensive and would refuse to pay it and move on. I don't want a jumping castle, swimming pool and playground. I'm not offended by your wording.

way2gokev · Senior Member

I think it all comes down to planning and choices. The costs of everything today has increased to what it was just yesterday and will continue to increase in the future.

We have inflation running at around 3% per ann, so the dollar you have today will be worth 97cents in 12 mths, add to this the cost of utilities like power, water, insurance, rego etc etc. I think that we have to be smarter in our choices and plan ahead to minimize the amount we pay out for our choice of lifestyle. Free camp, spend more time in smaller towns away from the larger towns and cities, the little towns will be grateful I'm sure. I agree with others to avoide the tourist spots in the tourist season, think of ways you can maybe turnover a dollar or two that will help the budget.

We will continue to pay the high prices for fuel and I cant ever see the time that fuel will be much below a $1.50, this is the average price in Tassie and has been for over 12mths, I need it, I want it so I think of ways that I can recoup a few dollars by working for cash or battering my services.

Think smarter and plan better and you will be happier and will enjoy your nomad life that some people would give millions for.

Just my thoughts regards Kev

retiree · Veteran Member

yes well said janette i fully agree with your comments cherylle

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

For as long as I can remember there have been 'peak' and 'off-peak' tariffs, fees and fares in almost everything we do regarding travel, accommodation and sight-seeing. Even country trains have 'peak' and 'off-peak' fare prices every week of the year.

We just need to understand it and if we dont want to pay the 'peak' prices then we simply need to plan our journeys etc to avoid the higher prices.

cheers - John

Veejayh · Member

I'm enjoying everyone's comments ...... and as this was the first time I'd ever posted on a forum, it's turned into an interesting read for me.

I mentioned in my first post that we house sit from time to time, so after the responses to my post I sat down & did a little calculation, and worked out that in the last 12 months, we've spent approximately 6 months in caravan parks and 6 months house sitting (on & off, 4 weeks here, 3 weeks there etc), and turns out what we'd originally budgeted for: $30/night for CP parks is exactly what we've averaged out at. Quite reasonable I think.

Due to cancer & some much needed treatment for my husband... (all good now I'm pleased to add), we had to spend a total of about 9 weeks in Sydney and only paid $32/night at Lane Cove NP. Bush right at our doorstep and very close to everything. I was impressed that in the heart of Sydney, the CP fee was very reasonable. Granted, the facilities were old, but they were clean, I have my own shower, washing machine & toilet in the van so it never really poses a problem.

We looked after other people's properties & pets on & off throughout 2012 during our travels - always choosing acreage & small towns over visiting the Big Smoke. I would much prefer to put my $$ into the local IGA and service station, bread shop, fruit shop etc etc than visit the big guns like Coles etc. Towns with a population of 1 - 2,000 people are definitely my preference. Oh and a few free camps thrown in here & there too.

BTW Kev, we just spent 2 months in Tassie (loved it, wish we'd stayed longer) and the dearest fuel was $1.75/litre but pretty much everywhere else was around $1.50 - I always expect to pay higher prices for fuel in remote areas and don't have an issue over it.

Perhaps my original 'beef' was more about Holiday Profiteering in places that I'm sure would have visitors all year round. It must make it very hard for Mr & Mrs Joe Average on Christmas/January holidays with a few kids.

Cheers!
Is it Happy Hour yet?

Nicholstones · Guru

way2gokev wrote:
.....
We have inflation running at around 3% per ann, so the dollar you have today will be worth 97cents in 12 mths,
..........

This is only sort of right. Last year inflation was 2.2% but it has averaged just under 3% over the last 10 years. However, you can today easily get 3.25% risk free in an internet savings account or 4.5% for a 1 year term deposit, so even at 3% inflation today's dollar should be worth between 100.15 and 101.36 in 12 months, if it hasn't languished under a mattress during that time (which given it is a coin instead of a note would be awfully uncomfortable if you are a princess).

I'm not trying to belittle the real problems that people have, just pointing out that apparent increases in costs have more than one aspect.

Golddetectornomad · Senior Member

It really is all about percent occupancy rate on a yearly basis for Caravan Parks...I used to sell Caravan Parks amongst other Business's....the smart operators and I dont mean sharp operators, used to work on upping their occupancy rate on a full year turnover...and the only way you can do that is to make your tariff attractive to the majority of potential clients over the whole year....I saw dumb greedy operators who thought they were 'saving' money by having less guests , and consequently less daily maintenance but charging top market price for their product/sites....Being 100% full for 3 months and 30% occupancy for remaining 9 months on average was not as productive/income producing as being 60/70% occupancy over 12 month period with "reasonable & affordable rates to your potential market>....in my experience its the ones who thought outside this square that had the best business's, and the others tended to base their fees on the oppositions fees all on the expectation of what the market could possibly bear.....you can class Australian Caravan Parks today as those owned by large cartels who could not give two bits of nanny goat poop for Grey Nomad tariff expectations,as soon as Accountants who are out of touch with anything except making money, are involved forget realistic tariffs...user pays or doesnt stay is the way they operate....then there are operators always hoping a Developer will appear who want their land and they tend to be "on the market" for years and do little in the way of meaningful improvements to ablution blocks etc ..and they just maintain the status quo and would tend to be the ones whinging to Councils about 'Independant Campers" in their ""areas""....then there are some smart operators who actually offer what the majority of their potential users really want & an affordable rate...and are in the business of actually providing what constitutes a 'Caravan Park'...which is basically Security,Functional clean ablution blocks,Good Park management including noise management, and pleasant surroundings....its not rocket science but so many get it wrong which is the basis of this thread that one tends to keep questioning 'why is it so?'......then of course there are Council run parks with Caretakers who's selection/expertise is governed by working for less providing they get a house provided....they're the parks we've all been to where you go up to their living quarters and chase them down to pay..aznd try and read all their meaningless signs to find out the rules that apply in this ""Park""...or spend the night because no-one showed up, wondering how you will pay next morning particularly as you want an early start....and then want a tariff most unrealistic to the ""service" provided....sound familiar??
When some enterprising entrepreneur recognises what potential there is in providing even basic security to travelling Nomads round this great Country by marshalling the forces of farmers on the outskirts of Towns and City's to provide secure fenced land with reasonable all weather access,then you will see a quantum shift in the thinking of all the above demographic groups of Caravan Parks..in short competition is what they all need...it will happen and I hope sooner rather than later...Hoo Roo

-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 1st of February 2013 12:47:45 AM

gordon_adl · Senior Member

It's ALWAYS happy hour in our house :)

Veejayh wrote:

Is it Happy Hour yet?

EllenajoeL · Senior Member

@Veejayh

thanks for your original post, I am also enjoying the breadth of responses

....FYI, it 'sounds' to me as though you are on a winning formula with houseminding, travel and the occasional CP visit (albeit with said expense)...so keep it going when you can.

I hope you enjoy all of these facets of your GN time and take good care, both in terms of your personal well being and your expectations/planning re visits to 'elsewhere'.

I am sure there are many more great experiences to come and I trust most CP owners are not trying to 'rip you off', as it were.

justcruisin01 · Guru

Services do cost money, but how can the same service cost nearly doubble in school holidays & long weekends ???

These are the times when there are plenty of customers & parks are full.

Come the off season they can reduce the price again when fewer people are around.

Its like an auction, who will pay the most. I won't.

JC.

gordon_adl · Senior Member

The service don't cost double...you need to average out the cost of running a business throughout the year, the busy times and slow times. In the slow times cp's run in the red, meaning a negative balance. However they make that balance up in the tourist season. Like many businesses, you run some months in the red and other months in the black, but to make a profit you need to charge more during the season. It's very typical of all businesses, not just caravan parks.

justcruisin01 wrote:

Services do cost money, but how can the same service cost nearly doubble in school holidays & long weekends ???

brickies · Guru

This is something that happen in whole tourist industry not just caravan parks try and book a unit somewhere in the school holidays , I have a friend who had a unit at sunshine coast in Queensland who had the unit let for holiday rental got sick of replacing gear in the unit that went missing or broken , Decided to let it long term on much lower price and made more money per year than holiday letting . A company who want to stay in bussiness must make there money in the busy times . Take North Queensland this time of the year caravan parks are not doing to great . Cmca started there own caravan to give there members cheap camping why did they turn it over to the Big 4 who charge at the top end . I also think that show grounds charge to much for what they offer and don't have to deal with all the regulations and fee that caravan parks have .