Power pack problem

tonyd · Guru

Power pack problem

jimricho · Guru

G'day Tony,

I don't have "hands on" experience with this product so my comments are more general in nature...

You won't be able to satisfactorily charge the battery (or any battery) just by connecting it to a 12v source. If however if you install a dual battery "smart relay" in your vehicle you could use it as an auxiliary battery as the alternator output is somewhere between 13.8 and 14.4 depending on the vehicle. All the normal issues with cable size and voltage drop apply. You can connect to the battery box via the output terminals or directly onto the battery.

Likewise if you wish to charge from solar panels you can connect to the battery as above.

An alternative to the aux system described above you could consider the more expensive but better option of a 12v - 12v charger such as the Ctek 205s (I think that's the type number, someone will correct me if not)

It may also be possible to use a Pure Sine Wave inverter to supply 240v to the box's charging circuit but I'm not 100% certain here due to my lack of familiarity with the product.

cheers,

Jim

PeterD · Guru

tonyd wrote:
HOWEVER . . . to my surprise, the Arks do not seem to have a 12v input plug, which seems to make that idea impossible.

Is this the device you are talking about - http://www.arkcorp.com.au/Products/Battery-Box/Powerpack/DA10W-Powerpack/flypage-ask.tpl.html

It says near the end of the page -Battery can also be charged via the accessory port or the external terminals - What is wrong with using the external terminals? Install a heavy lead using 6 gauge cable to the rear of the vehicle and terminate this with an Anderson plug. Construct a lead with a mating Anderson plug and terminals to attach to the external terminals.

Alternately, is it possible to modify the box so a lead connected to the battery terminals? You should find some way to drill a couple of holes to get it through the side.

justcruisin01 · Guru

jimricho wrote:
You won't be able to satisfactorily charge the battery (or any battery) just by connecting it to a 12v source.An alternative to the aux system described above you could consider the more expensive but better option of a 12v - 12v charger such as the Ctek 205s (I think that's the type number, someone will correct me if not)

DITTO.

JC.

tonyd · Guru

Thanks to all for quick and useful replies, which are appreciated.
I have been in touch with Ark and got a speedy reply, which I include for the reference of others:

"The Powerpack has one 12V 10A socket for a cigarette lighter plug and two external terminals with wingnuts rated at 100A.

These are connected to the battery via the battery isolator. This is a separate circuit from the smart charger.

To charge the battery when there is no access to mains power you can use solar panels connected to the two terminals on the LHS and RHS of the lid.

The battery isolator must be on. In this charging configuration the Powerpack cannot regulate the charge process or voltage so it is recommended

you use solar panels with a 12V regulator.

The other option to charge the battery on the move is to install a dual battery system wiring loom (ARB, Redarc are good brands) in your vehicle so you can charge the Powerpack battery from the alternator.

You can connect the wiring loom to the two external terminals and again the battery isolator must be on.

Unfortunately there is no method to charge the Powerpack from the cigarette socket in your car."

By the by, Ark in August is planning to launch a new powerpack which will have a 240v option along with the 12v. Interesting concept so long as the safety aspects are sorted out!

Cheers, Tony

jimricho · Guru

Good to see it all sorted Tony,

cheers,

Jim

tonyd · Guru

Thanks, Jim. Dunno about all sorted. This whole area of charging from the alternator seems to be very complicated and the possible solutions can be very expensive.

Have had several conversations with 4WD shop people which did not entirely inspire confidence, either. I have a local auto electrician, but he put in my brake controller, charged me $300 and looked a bit put out when I asked why he had installed the unit back to front. He then asked why I wanted it "the right way round". When I said I would like to be able to use the controls, he looked a bit miffed, but changed it around, with rather bad grace.

Anyway, have now decided that the easy, reliable way to go for auxiliary power is . . . (puts on helmet and flak jacket) . . . to buy a generator and charge the batteries as needed. Simple and effective. (And, no, I won't do it when other campers are nearby!)

Cheers, Tony

jimricho · Guru

tonyd wrote:
Thanks, Jim. Dunno about all sorted. This whole area of charging from the alternator seems to be very complicated and the possible solutions can be very expensive.

Have had several conversations with 4WD shop people which did not entirely inspire confidence, either. I have a local auto electrician, but he put in my brake controller, charged me $300 and looked a bit put out when I asked why he had installed the unit back to front. He then asked why I wanted it "the right way round". When I said I would like to be able to use the controls, he looked a bit miffed, but changed it around, with rather bad grace.

Anyway, have now decided that the easy, reliable way to go for auxiliary power is . . . (puts on helmet and flak jacket) . . . to buy a generator and charge the batteries as needed. Simple and effective. (And, no, I won't do it when other campers are nearby!)

Cheers, Tony

Time to sack that auto sparky. He overcharges and underdelivers.

I think you may find that it will take quite while to charge from 240v mains (either from the mains or a genny) using the box's internal charger. Try out but if you find you don't get a quick enough charge the solution is to connect it to a "smart" charger such as a Ctek unit (plenty of other brands available) to the battery as discussed above.

If you still wish to pursue the charge-from-the-alternator option talk to a competent auto sparky who's familiar with auxiliary battery systems.

Jim

SaltyDog · Veteran Member

Dont mean to drag up an old thread, but it amazes me the amount of problems people seem to have with a Dual Battery System or Running a second Battery, and some of the bad and or very expensive solutions people quote them.

For 10 years i ran a dual battery system that charged off the alternator and cost nothing more than a $26.50 solenoid and price of the second battery and some cable.
There were no such things as fancy solar panels back then, no "smart" chargers, VSR's were just coming to the market place, but were super $$$$ at the time ($70 now)

Its simple and easy...

But far too often i hear people wanting to charge a battery or battery pack from a cigi lighter... What the? The sooner people just get that idea out of their heads the better!

To aid with the the OP, i am looking at one of these ARK units for a mate whom has asked me to check them out.
Basically all of these so called "Power Packs" are just a battery in a box with some cheap electronics, a bunch of different outputs and some lights, and a scary price tag.
However, you can make them charge off an alternator, you might just need to add your own wiring.

-- Edited by SaltyDog on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 04:33:33 AM

-- Edited by SaltyDog on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 04:34:18 AM

SaltyDog · Veteran Member

Appreciate being brought up to speed Frank...

Yes, i was actually going to come back add, that it would be different with a modern Euro Vehicle.
My GF has a BMW X5, i just updated the software on the computer and updated her maps....
In the process i learnt just how technical and voltage/current sensitive these types of vehicles are!!

OMG, never jump start one!!! (i didn't... but from what i have read)

Yes i agree, a VSR and DC-DC unit is the go now.

My old Solenoid method work great in the old HiAce.... I got both batteries to start the vehicle and charge when running and once the ignition was off, the batteries were separated.
Back then there were no AGM batteries.... it was a very simple yet effective system, that worked for years. It did have a design flaw, but it was only apparent if your cranking battery was getting down.

Yes, much more complicated these days......

Even these packs have come a long way.

Engal (same as ArkPak)

ArkPak

Ark Powerpack cheaper model

-- Edited by SaltyDog on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 11:40:50 AM

-- Edited by SaltyDog on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 11:45:43 AM

-- Edited by SaltyDog on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 11:46:31 AM

KFT · Guru

G'day saltydog

It isnt quite that simple with modern vehicles anymore.

To comply with euro emissions standards many vehicle alternators are now controlled by the on board computer and as such will not recognise or charge an auxilliary battery.

Hence the DC-DC charger set up many are now installing(including me). My setup includes a 40 amp redarc DC-DC charger that charges the fridge batteries and the caravan batteries when the van is on the back.

I find this setup works well for me and my AGM batteries are charged properly by this system.

hope that clears it up for you.

frank

KFT · Guru

salty dog

if you pick a reasonable quality DC-DC charger like the redarc (aussie designed and built) then you wont need the VSR. The redarc has one built in and isolates the aux battery when the input voltage drops.

frank