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Post Info TOPIC: Waeco Powersupply


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Waeco Powersupply


Thats quite right powersuply has 25V printed on it, but in reality they put out 27V & they are fine at that voltage. If you was running a fridge off a vehicle that was 24V, the voltage would go up around 28V when the altenator is charging. The control box on the compressor will handle a max of 31.5V on 24v. And 17V max on 12V use.Waeco Ps15.JPG



-- Edited by DeBe on Saturday 14th of December 2013 10:26:34 AM

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thanks for the previous help, I've now replaced ic1, q1, r9, but when i connected it up to 240v, i blew r11a and r 8. any ideas? r8 may have been blown already, i didn't notice until now that its blown but r11a went when i plugged it in. does r11a need to be replaced with any special type of resistor? do i need to buy a whole new unit?? spent a fair bit of time on it!

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R11a is .2 ohm 2 watt metal film resistor, for that to blow Q1 is either shorted or turned on & not switching. R8 is 22 ohm 1 watt resistor, this is what drives Q1. if it was alreay blown then that may be the cause of R11 blowing. Q1 may also now be faulty. May be time to look at using an external 12V dc powersuply from someone like Jaycar.



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think i have another q1, will get the 2w resistor and have another go!


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so ive replaced everything that appears to be burnt, and now it blows the mains fuse,which didn't blow initially, I did replace Q1 again. would it be the voltage spike protection? i have ordered a couple but is there anyway to test the one on the board?
i can a new one down the road
www.allvolts.com.au/catalogue/4330_item.html
but won't if i can fix this one! nothing else burns so i think I've improved it, just the fuse..

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also wondered about the yellow blocks, are they capacitors? as they run between the active and neutral. my multimeter doesn't seem to read anything off them..

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The yellow blocks are capacitors & should be ok unless shorted. Check the mains bridge rectifier for shorts. $189 for a new powersupply is a bid dear. You should be able to by a 12V 6Amp Dc powersupply cheeper?



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yeah i know, just trying to make it fit back inside. this is actually my dad's, i have an older non 240v one, i was always jealous that his had the 240v inside! I've now had to replace the thermistor on his (which i think caused the power supply problem-wet foam) and now this! maybe the old girls are better!

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i have his fridge running on a external power supply, just have this in the shed and come back to it every now and then!

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Waeco CF-40 VER.A Circuit.WAECO CF-40 VER.A.1.JPGWAECO CF-40 VER.A .2.JPG



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Just so you know where I'm going in advance, Waeco runs fine on 240AC & 24 Vdc, but not on 12Vdc...and I know just enough to be dangerous...(~;

Hi there, not so sure I'm doing this right, but will dive in the deep end... have a similar problem to above stories and all internet searches show you guys as the only viable help...tried the Waeco service people, but usual response..(just bring it in and let us overcharge you-how much...the only info I was given is, the unit auto-detects 12/24..)

I was building up a bus, but it got stolen...To cut a long story short, I have a Waeco CF110, new in about '05 or '06..superseded when the new series with digital readout came along..
(I think it's a series A mk2..? does that sound right?) external power supply ( MPS-50A 12/24dc/240ac )

Ran it on 240 for a while, no probs and then parked it up...'til...went camping and...
Plugged into 12 v battery charged from 80 W panel,(not through the mobitronic, figured I didn't need it), and all seemed fine (kindof)- fan runs, indicator lights and controls do their stuff, but it doesn't get cold.
Thought it must need to run 12V through the Mobitronic, but no-go on 12v supply as above(soft or hard wired, only outputs 12V).

I plugged back into 240v- runs fine, bodged up a 24V system, and it runs fine...!

almost there....with questions!
Mobitronic supplies 24V out from 240 mains input, and 12vdc only out from 12V dc input, and the circuit board beside the fan I think corresponds ok.

Q1, Is the DC output from 12 V in, intended to be 12V only...?...which is why I just ran straight from 12V battery supply?

Q2, Does the compressor run on 12vdc, or 24vdc, or both, or is there magic circuitry inside where I can't access..other than the circuit board beside the fan?
( ie; in the white distro box, +,-,B+,F,D,C,P,T )

Q3, Is this a simple solution, ie making it possible to run from 12v, if not I'll just continue to bodge up 24 v...??
I have some photos, when I figure out that bit.

Thanks in advance, duTch- if there's anything I can do to help, let me know, cheers




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It should run on 12vdc or 24vdc. When on 12v check the voltage on the top 2 conectors on t -Danfoss Bridge C & T to run comp @ 2000RPM.JPG



-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 1st of May 2014 08:19:01 AM



-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 1st of May 2014 11:42:34 AM



-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 1st of May 2014 11:43:21 AM

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Thanks for your input DeBe,

           I was a little confused at first by the wiring colours,(mainly camera angle) but think I worked it out-

So far as I can tell, it seems you have disconnected 'C' (white) and 'T'(yellow) and bridged/looped these with the red wire .(?)
With that configuration,- (photo #2) from 12.2v supply, I have 12.13v at top terminals +/-, and the fan and compressor both run.

  Is there a fuse anywhere? (odd if not), as when I was checking what wires went where, I dropped the main feed (Red/red) and it arced off the compressor body (yeah I know- should've disconned it!!), so now under normal connectivity, nothing happens (but ok for above test), figured a blown fuse, but none to be seen(?), might add one!

I don't have a second yellow wire to '+', but a thin red piggy backed onto thick red main power '+' instead, (as per photo #1- hopefully).

What exactly is in the box we're dealing with? a control box for the 12/24v sensor, or where does that..??, can't figure how to remove/inspect it without major surgery- or if need be..?..(~;

With everything connected normal, for what it's worth I have the following readings

@  12v  / 24v

      12.3   / 26.9    @ all 4 wires connected to +,+

         3.7  /    3.9          @  'D'

         0.2  /  0.2            @  'C' ,'P' -

         3.1  /   3.2           @    'T' 

 Hopin' I haven't totally destroyed it, do those results tell anything?

 Cheers and thanks again, duTch.

I thought I already posted another edit of this, but seems to have disappeared..!!

 



-- Edited by duTch on Saturday 3rd of May 2014 08:01:29 AM

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The 101N0220 control box probably houses an inverter to convert the DC supply into a multiphase pseudo-AC supply for the compressor. The fact that there is an error output that flashes a LED using several different error codes would suggest that the box incorporates a microprocessor of some kind.

The "C" terminal appears to be the Common, and is probably grounded.

The "T" terminal turns the compressor on or off and selects the desired RPM in the range from 2000 RPM to 3500 RPM.

A T-C voltage of 0V selects 2000 RPM whereas a voltage of 3V selects 3500 RPM. Between these two extremes the voltage-RPM relationship appears to be linear, ie each additional volt adds 500 RPM.

The "P" terminal selects the cut-in and cut-out battery voltages. A P-C voltage of 0V selects a 10.9V cut-in and 9.6V cut-out.

The "D" terminal is the error output.

Here is the datasheet for the BD35F compressor and 101N0220 control:

www.ra.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/Literature/Manuals/06/BD35-50F_101N0210-20-40_0300-20_08-2011_dehcei100b602.pdf



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That picture was to show where to measure the input voltage, the red wire loop was for forcing the compressor to run. There should be a control board somewhere? can you post a picture of it? What you have shown is the Compressor control box, & you appear to have 12V on the top 2 conectors. There should be a fuse usualy inside the cigarette lighter type plug. If you have wired a different plug on the lead then you should have a fuse somewhere fitted to the lead. Is your temp control a slidecontrol? The control board will look something like this.WAECO CDF-40.JPG



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ISTM that duTch's voltages are correct. The compressor should be spinning at 3500 RPM. If it isn't spinning, then it should be flashing its error output at the D terminal. If there is no error output, then this suggests that the microcontroller within the Danfoss control module must be dead.

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This is the Compressor controller. To make absolutely sure I would bridge  C & T . The compressor should run with 12V supplied to the top 2 terminals. If it doesn't then there is probably a fault with the controller. They aren't cheap around $250.DANFOSS CONTROLER.1.JPGDANFOSS CONTROLER.2.JPGDANFOSS CONTROLER.3.JPGDANFOSS CONTROLER.4.JPG



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Hoo boy- heady stuff- Well, I felt like Max Smart trying to break into Fort Knox, but did it, not many screws left unscrewed...

My control board is different, as per photo#1, but Fort Knox jewels (mission controller) look the same- as per photo#3
Installed a in-line fuse, but the 12v factory lead has a lead-plug (ceramic) fuse which hadn't blown but did later..for some reason...(?)

 I don't want to waste any-ones' time unnecessarily, but appreciate your input and maybe can be of help to others.

dorian, apart from initially having the 'error' led and then system cutout (running on 12v), after the 'short/arcing' I have no idiot lights at all..??

 I've no idea what revs it's at, sounded healthy yesterday, but had it propped up at an angle for access, so was a bit more noisy than today on the level- just feel spinning/motion.

 Just for information, to remove the controller, I up-ended the unit and unscrewed the bottom 'plate', and chocked it up with wooden blocks to access the inner unit.(photo#2)

Photo #4 is just the overall kinda view, with the new fuse dead centre.

 Bit burned out now, more later..20140110_120253.jpg20140503_150614.jpg20140503_153413.jpg

 

 






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Hello again.

    I hope this all makes sense..??....it's taken all day to do it!!!!
            
 This Waeco  (CF 110 series 1/Mk2-? ) is still causing grief.Waeco/Danfoss arent very helpful at all..!!!!! bring it in and well give you a quote cant be all that hard..?.So, Im looking at changing bits until its fixed..unless someone has a better idea, other than burn it..?

The short version;-
      Please, I need to identify these bits (see photo) or find alternatives; Ive wasted time setting this out as I see it in situ.

Chip on Temp. operating/control board;-  numbers missing (photo #1)
4CCEF8M
SN74H>?<N ?     I assumed   # 74HC14N

..and on main control board ?
X1  # 3.58M (+ a symbol-)   looks like a Tantalum Cap but peanut shape...?....Closeup see Photo #2

U3              LANEM78P458AP-G
                        0502RBG5143                 See Photo #3

U4                          ATMEL426                   "      "     "
                                  24C02 
                                PPP127D

Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4;-         8050S                        "      "      "
                                  C331
                               
 A longer version ~;-
I took some time to process all the previous informationreasonably straight forward.
Had to then put it on the back-burner  (almost feel like adding it to anything that burns..!!!).

 After a lot of searches I found and bit the bullet and bought a new Comp.control Module (101N0220), but still not a lot of glory, but in theory should eliminate that as a problem.

It doesnt generally show any LEDs but cools to 0 on mains->24V, on emergency, and on12v  almost, but doesnt quite start,  even with ~13V supply.if Im lucky sometimes get a voltage error  (1 flash/4secs).
   It all suggests to me that one of the startup/control chips or a capacitor may be at fault..??

 I'm trying to identify some components that I thought may be easy to replace as I had a blown chip on the Temp Control Panel (photo attached), but I can only see 4CCEF8M  SN74HCN, so took a punt and bought a 74HC14N, which made a difference (enabled on/off button) but not sure if its the correct part?

          
                             Thanks again in advance, duTch



-- Edited by duTch on Tuesday 25th of November 2014 06:07:13 PM

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All the information you need is in this thread:

http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/mobile.spark?p=topic&topic=57291481&page=3

That said, the fact that the SN74HC164N chip is cooked would suggest that it may have been overvolted, in which case you would need to examine the 7810 and 7805 regulators. Also, you would have to be concerned about all the other chips which share the same +5V supply.

There would be no point in replacing the microcontroller (EM78P458AP) as it incorporates appliance-specific OTP ROM code.

EM78P458/459 8-Bit Microcontroller with OTP ROM:
http://www.emc.com.tw/twn/database/Data_Sheet/8BIT/EM78P458459.pdf

http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/database%5Csa2%5C8BIT%5CERRATA%5CEM78P458459_Errata_ver1.5.pdf

Similarly, the 24C02 probably stores user defined settings. A blank chip's contents might be automatically regenerated in normal operation, though.

The 3.58 device is a crystal or ceramic resonator.



-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 26th of November 2014 09:39:11 AM

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Thanks Dorian, much appreciated- I'll have a read.. the 7805 did in fact cook and I've replaced it that's a 5v one and it seems the 7810 is 10v (makes sense by the # but not necessarily !! )
I thought 74HC looked like it needed n extra digit

Cheers (I'll turn the gas down on the front burner)

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Any chance of a clear picture of the printed circuit side of the main controller board & the small control board? as they are slightly different to the ones ive posted.



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Yo Debe, I tried to garner as much info as I could from your other photos, but figured not much point....

I've added photos of each boards front and reverse, and the reverse side of each board flipped vertical for easy(?) viewing- hope that's helpful

 Sorry about the last three being bigger files/resolution...!!

Jaycar close by, so I've replaced the (sn) 74HC164n, but still only runs on 240/24v Emergency gets to <0/0, and kicks in for a bit on 12v but drops out quickly with the voltage error light (1 FLSH/4 SEC.) supply is a bit over 12v, and drops to 11.5ishV under start load...

I've also made a list of all the resistor values, as far as I can determine from the colours which ~match their values in situ. (isolated), and all other bits same.

 

PS, I meant to add that I'm ok with trying to repair the boards as a learning exercise, but if I can buy new ones at a reasonable price would also be ok....?

 



-- Edited by duTch on Wednesday 26th of November 2014 08:22:11 PM

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When costs get out of hand these Digital thermostats have been fitted, cost around$15 on Ebay. The last picture is what a person did bypassing the control panel as it as it was faulty & was costing too mutch. The switch on the right gives 2 different compressor speeds, he is quite happy with its performance, even if it does look a bit rough.DIG TEMP CONTROL.1.JPGDIG TEMP CONTROL.3.JPGWAECO ELECTRONIC THERMOSTAT.F.jpg



-- Edited by DeBe on Wednesday 26th of November 2014 08:24:40 PM

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I would measure the voltages at the compressor control board's terminal block. That will tell us what the Waeco main board is doing.


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DeBe wrote:

When costs get out of hand these Digital thermostats have been fitted, cost around $15 on Ebay. 


 

Here is the WH7016C Thermostat Product Manual:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/8/88/WH7016C_instructions.pdf



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 Thanks Debe and Dorian,  had a quick read- so if I find one of those, and ? connect to C,P,T &(D) then I can eliminate Operating panel, and Control Board?

Ive checked the Voltage at the Control Module  (101N0220) see below;- seems every time I reconnect, something different happensthis time the compressor has continued to run on 12v (Emergncy)~ , and I feel immediate cold on the comp. outlet pipe....well for a while..

 Note that with D,C,P, T all disconnected, readings at module pins with 12.V in, are:
 D   0.0        (3.6v @ Wire end)
 C   0.0
 P   4.95
 T   4.95


Input SupplyVoltage
   
            Mains/24v                Doesn't start on normal Inputs)    ~12v/13.3v          

    24v                               24v                                12v                             12v
    Emergency PWR.     Normal Input                   Normal Input               Emergency            
    (-ve)    0.0
    +    27.0v                 27.15v                            13.08v                       12.3v
    +      v                      v                                   V                              v
F            15.0                23.92v                            10.07v                        0.35v
D      3.6-3.9v                 4.05v                              3.67v                        3.68v
C         0.2                      0.0 v                               0.0v                          0.0v

P        0.04                   0.0v (4.95v disconnected)   0.0v                          0.07v/ (4.95v disconnected)   

T        0.2                       4.95v                   4.97-5.01v                    0.22/   (4.95v              )
  
  With T jumped to C @12V, there is only ~0.07v @ T

I'll go have a hunt for a "WH7016C Thermostat Product'                Thanks yet again, duTch



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The Danfoss controller's terminals have the following function:

C = Common (ground)
P = Voltage Limits
T = RPM

The error LED is reporting a "battery protection cut-out error". However, a voltage of 0V at the P terminal selects the following operating conditions, so I can't see why the Danfoss controller should be complaining.

At 12V ...

12V cut-out = 9.6V
12V cut-in = 10.9V
max voltage = 17.0V

At 24V ...

24V cut-out = 21.3V
24V cut-in = 22.7V
max voltage = 31.5V

A voltage of 0V at the T terminal selects 2000 RPM. That's the emergency override setting.

In normal operation the main board connects the T terminal to ground via one of two resistors which are switched by transistors Q1 and Q2 (Normal and Turbo speed). The fact that this terminal is sitting at 5V means that the compressor is not being turned on by the main board. Was the On/Off button pressed before the measurements were taken? If so, then this would suggest that either the main board or the display board are faulty.

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I thought I posted this reply, but it must've failed.... so extra update at bottom

 Hi Dorian, I was in the middle of isolating each resistor to check them, but had a small interruption from a "light rain shower" here...torrential storm actually!!! I think they are mostly ok, depending on tolerances.. I need to go do a job, so will try and analyze that and reassess later when I get back

It seems something isn't switching, as nothing happens when I do the on/off button, and the only LED that fires up is the 'error'. I think the operating panel (for the most part at least) is ok, and I suspect one or more of the three trannies  (8050S C331), but I tried RS, Jaycar and Prime but they don't seem to be available in Oz, the guy at Jaycar suggested trying BC 639 021. (I understand the difference between these is 80V/1.0A, rather than 20V/1.5A..?)

 I think it's likely it needs a whole new board...??

 cheers

 

Update-  with my extensive knowledge of Transistors and ceramic resonators garnered from a 10 minute internet session, apart from one trannie with a broken leg (Q4), all three tested with readings of ~ 980 (ohms?) between two sets of two of the three pins, with each set having a common (NPN), and only in one direction using the diode function..  so I replaced the one with the broken leg (Q4) with the above BC 639 021, which had a test reading of ~960 ( ?). The Resonator broke off completely, so I found a blue one(same value) at Prime Electronics, but they only had a three pin one which I soldered in and disregarded the centre pin. (gnd?)
 
  So having done all that, nothing really changed, still only runs constant on 24V (to -10C freezer/0C fridge).......
 
I've had a look at results for the WH7016C Thermostat, and there's a few different versions- still processing that one.
 
 
 


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Update- the short story- found a Control Board at;

http://www.allvolts.com.au/catalogue/3778_item.html?ref_cat_id=FRIDGE-FREEZER-COOLER-WAECO-SPARE-PARTS

 installed, and all the top panel lights work except 'TURBO',  but battery low volts the compressor isn't kicking in.....but no error LED..more later

 



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