Tugs Versus Economy

Len and Barb · Member

Tugs Versus Economy

Gerty Dancer · Guru

Welcome to the forum, Len and Barb.

Everything is a compromise, I'm sorry to say. In order to tow a biggish van you're gonna need a powerful tug and they use more fuel. We really had our heart set on an "off-road" type van, discovered they are too heavy for our tug, and had to choose between the van and our tug. Eventually decided the tug stays, and had to choose a lighter van.

There are some very experienced travellers on this forum who understand the towing capacities and fuel requirements of various vehicles... its a balancing act.

Very best wishes in your decision-making!

Len and Barb · Member

Thanks Gert,

makes good sense, however we plan on hitting the road for some time and making the van our only home and we think we need some luxuries like shower and toilet but we feel also we could manage just with a porta loo and some good camp stops. How do you find the Pop Top in bad weather? Also I notice you have a Prado, are you happy with it's performance?

L & B

Gerty Dancer · Guru

So far the pop-top has been fine, no leaks, and we've been in some heavy rain (hasnt everyone?). Less wind-drag than a full van but of course you have to put it up/down every time you stop. (Can access it with roof down though) I like the extra ventilation of the zip windows in the top in warmer weather. We have a separate shower tent, and porta-loo, and swap between bush camps and Caravan Parks.

The Prado has a towing capacity of 2.5 tons, the van weighs a little less that 2 tons and we are happy with that. Towing this van it uses around 14 litres diesel per 100 k's. There was no way my partner was going to part with his beloved Prado... that says it all!

bill12 · Guru

Some of the smaller diesels, such asa hilux or bt50, will tow up to 3 tons, and are definately better on fuel than the v8s. My friend has a 2wd bt50 with a slide on , and gets 10 to 12 klms to the ltr. I get 8 klms / ltr from my old hilux4wd, with a slide on and a tinny on the front.It all depends on how much junk you want to take with you.Vans are good if you want to stay periods in one place as you can explore in the car and leave the van at the camp. Slideons have other good points. Its up to you.

-- Edited by bill12 on Saturday 15th of January 2011 02:52:45 PM

Len and Barb · Member

Thanks for that Bill,

Got us thinking now about slideons. Can you still access them when loaded and how long does it take to slide off?

Cheers L&B

kesue · Senior Member

Hi Len and Barb, whichever way you decide to go please give it a lot of thought before spending your money. We did it the hard and expensive way by going from a Coromel camper van to a Coromel poptop and finally a Golf full height with shower and toilet. I wish we had gone straight to the golf, but you learn as you go. We were going off for 3 months trips and the toilet is great especially if you happen to pick a crappy site and there are plenty of these about..Good luck with your hunting Keith

ozjohn · Guru

Jayco Stirling doesn't give any info except for a Jayco brand name.
What size is it, and what it it's ATM (Maximum legal loaded weight)?
The ATM will be stamped on the vans compliance plate.
Once this figure is known then suggestion will flow forth about suitable tow vehicles.
Rule of thumb is the heavier the van the more expensive the tug.
Cheers, ozjohn

bill12 · Guru

It all depends on how much you want to spend. My one is home made and comes off with a block and tackle, but a lot of them have a wind up legs,which you carefully drive out from under.A pop top one give you less wind resistance. I like the metal framed ones, but a well made timber frame is also good. Go to Ebay or Trading post , and you should be able to find one to suit you.

jandas fun · Guru

Hi Len and Barb,
if you are going full time or for long periods, you will spend a lot of time using the tug.
Make sure its something you are comfortable with,and has more power than you need. Don't want to have stress attacks every time you see a hill.
If the budget is low, then drive less k's between camp stops and/or stop for longer.

Johnw

-- Edited by jandas fun on Saturday 15th of January 2011 05:33:36 PM

flasher · Member

how you going I did a heap of looking around for a tug that would pull a 21 foot sterling around so i got me a nissan pathfinder 2007 and got a steinbaur power chip fitted give it 154 kw and 404 torque so tug ready to go --misses then wants a grandcruiser [2.5 ton tare-3ton gvm] van loaded 2.85 ton and was a bit nervous on first trip but the nissan pulls it very well and returns 16-17 lts per hundred ks with van on and 9-10 ltrs without van and we have now covered 6000k The nissan costs &30000 and steinbaur &1600 so now if you had a 21 ft sterling the weight would be a lot less than what i pull . pathfinder 3ton towing 300 download as long as you do not have to much weight in the car

jimricho · Guru

Following on from Ozjohn's post (and others too) keep in mind the fuel consumption of the van. this is the difference between the tug's fuel consumption when towing and when not towing (in a similar driving environment). In general, the bigger the van the greater it's fuel consumption. My little rig uses about two and a bit litres to the hundred (fully loaded). That's the consumption of the van only over and above that of the tug (not towing).

Fuel economy should be seen in the context of the overall costs, both initial outlays and on-going running costs, rather than in isolation. Reminds me of that old story about the Rolls Royce salesman when asked about the fuel consumption replied "If you're worried about fuel consumption you can't afford a Rolls Royce."

In the Diesel versus Petrol debate (if there is one!), all things being equal, the diesel is a winner. However I have a mate who tows a largish van with a petrol Landcruiser. I asked him about this and he said that he was able to buy his 'Cruiser (2nd hand) for (I think) about $20,000 less than a diesel and as he pointed out "you can buy a lot of petrol for that". (As this is only one instance the comment may not be generally quite as valid.)

-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 16th of January 2011 07:51:18 AM

blaze · Guru

Len and Barb wrote:

Thanks for that Bill,

Got us thinking now about slideons. Can you still access them when loaded and how long does it take to slide off?

Cheers L&B

Hi L&B
my BIL has a slide on, if he camps for a couple of days he takes it off. Takes about 15 minutes to jack it up and then drive out, he then lowers it down to the ground. It has hydraulic legs and is very easy to do. I can only ever remember 1 time when things got a bit hard, the foot on the leg got stuck under a tree root and took forever to free it.
cheers
blaze

jimricho · Guru

I'm inclined to think that there's a vast difference in terms of space and facilities (eg; en-suite) between even the smallest of the Jayco Sterling range and a slide-on. The comparison may be valid if comparing to a little rig like mine (as shown in my profile picture).

By the way I have friends who last year purchased a Sterling pop-top (new) and they had a couple of minor "teething" issues that were soon sorted but dollar for dollar there was nothing else on the market that came anywhere near it for value.

Also I can understand a keen fisherman like Bill12 liking a slide-on as he is still able to tow a boat and a ute with a slide-on will go almost anywhere the ute alone can go.

-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 16th of January 2011 07:12:59 AM

bill12 · Guru

Let me get this right, Jimricho-you get 2.5ltrs per 100klms when towing your pop top van? It seems a bit low to me as my non turbo diesel hilux gets about 8 ltrs per 100klms, and I don,t tow anything. My calculater says you are getting 40 klms to the ltr!I wish I could get that.

jimricho · Guru

bill12 wrote:

Let me get this right, Jimricho-you get 2.5ltrs per 100klms when towing your pop top van? It seems a bit low to me as my non turbo diesel hilux gets about 8 ltrs per 100klms, and I don,t tow anything. My calculater says you are getting 40 klms to the ltr!I wish I could get that.

Bit low??? wink

Wouldn't even get that out of Mini Minor!

No that is the additional fuel consumption due to having the rig on the back. I get a bit over 10 to the 100k (highway) that goes up to about 12 1/2 when towing. Also I get along at about 95 to 100ks (GPS checked) so I'm not driving for maximum economy.

PS: I've edited my previous post to remove that ambiguity.

-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 16th of January 2011 07:52:40 AM

ozi2 · Guru

Len and Barb wrote:

Hi all,

still a little time away from our journey and having a real mind battle over the type of tug we need. We want to tow a van similar in size to a Jayco Stirling or same and need to consider the fuel economy as well as towing potential. I know so many people are doing the job very nicely with Toyota LandCruisers especially the V8s and larger diesels but we are worried about fuel costs as we will not be very cashed up.
We can't afford a new vehicle and would like some advice from anyone who has experienced the same problems and worked it out.

Kind regards

Len & Barb

Hi Len and Barb, welcome to the forum. I note that you will be living in the van over a long period and I would presume that you would require a van big enough to have the comforts you would like installed, ie shower etc. ( I think most slide on campers would be too small for your long travel periods that you state) and that you are looking for a tow vehicle to safely tow your home. I see no need for a V8 turbo diesel landcruiser when there are other suitable vehicles to be found 2nd hand that would do the job handsomely provided you take into account the towing capacity of that vehicle. Is a 4wd a must have choice or would perhaps a late model aussie vehicle do the job, possibly a duel fuel setup included. These days so much of Australia has sealed roads to the destinations we seek that 4wd is not necessary and they do come at a big cost.
Good luck and happy hunting,
cheers,
Ozi2

capt cream bun · Senior Member

Hi Len and Barb...Here is a link that may help you compare the different vehicle choices. It has been posted here before by others , i found it helpful, hope you do also.
ccb

http://www.carshowroom.com.au/newcars/reviews/?referrer=google_csr&s_kwcid=TC|10386|car%20specs||S||5751647060&gclid=CJve2qutvaYCFQH1bwodJ32LGg

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Great link Capt. Cream bun, I've not seen it before and it answered a few of my questions

justcruisin01 · Guru

There is one simple rule to all towing , if you have enough power to move the load easily then the fuel usage will not change very much, on the other hand if you try to tow with some thing small & under powered the fuel usage will increase quite heavely.
This may be an extreme eg, a F250 , 7.3 ltr v8 towing 4 tonn still does 5kl /1ltr. much the same as a lot of other tugs but it is doing it with ease & has power to spare so you are not working the tug into the ground.
So what that means is the more power you can afford the more economical it will be, both fuel wise & maintaince.

PeterD · Guru

Why did you post the same thread on this and the Techies' Corner? This is a technical question. See my comments over there.

jimricho · Guru

Looks like he's back on the grumpy pills again wink

Len and Barb · Member

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.

Looking forward to getting amongst you all and having a chat somewhere, someday.

I have seen most of Australia and have done it in swags and sometimes just on the ground but my wife has never seen it so I am looking forward to showing her what a beautiful wild country we live in.

Cheers - Len & Barb