Grey water tanks

SouthernComfort · Guru

Grey water tanks

Possum3 · Guru

Tony, I bought one of those collapsible 20 litre clear plastic water containers (cube shaped) plus a length of pool hose 95 cms (the type for Kreepy Krawley) one end fits perfectly into container and other end perfect fit for my outlet. Collapsed the whole thing takes minimal space and weighs almost nothing. I have used this in many very strict "fully contained" areas had Rangers OK it - when it is full or time to move, put the cap back on and it has a handle to lift it into tug to take to dump point. Cheap and effective been using for two years now and clear plastic is a bit cloudy so next time I'm near Rays I'll get another one from memory $19.00.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Great idea, and economical! Thanks for the tip.

As it's only a contingency item, something lightweight and space frugal is perfect. Seems that pool hosing is sold in 1m lengths from what I can see. Bunnings have some 50mm but I think the hose you're referring to is 38mm, would that be correct?

macka17 · Guru

Hi.
Another way.
is coupla lengths of 6in\8in sewer pipe with ends to suit.

outlet from sink drain straight into top of end cap of pipes.
Possibly a 3 way before that, one side to van drain one to this.
you can mount this under Or after.

A lot mount under van chassis too with tap coming out side of van.
Me.
I've got 2 x 6in about 4 ft or so. Linked together under sink at front of van.
With 38mm outlet tap.
I can just stick drain hose on end and drain on site.
Can add more under van later if req'd.

Then, later on, either discharge down street drain. in paddock OR I have a 20 ltr plastic drum.
Empty into that and lose in Dump points.

Prev van. Just added spare 90 ltr tank under van.
With modern laws coming out. the piping is a good way to keep ahead. and easy to increase on later.

Just remember.
coupled to a water supply. You INCREASING the van weight.
using own tank water.
you just transferring same weight o different place.

Possum3 · Guru

That's about right - just went out and measured it. The male spigot end is 38mm outside dia, which fits into filler hole of water container

SouthernComfort · Guru

Thanks again guys, that's really helpful stuff.

PeterD · Guru

SouthernComfort wrote:
My question is about the best method of capturing grey water. The van doesn't have a sullage tank already fitted and we will only be using van parks until we gain enough confidence and experience to venture into free camping. It seems most/many van parks have grey water disposal options in which cases a tank wouldn't be necessary. But I can see there will be exceptions, so I'm wondering whether I should have a tank fitted to the van, or invest in a portable wheelie tank.

As you will only be using caravan parks you definitely do not need any grey water storage. All parks must have grey water disposal for you to use. There are parks that don't have plumbed sullage water systems, if in doubt about what to do with the sullage in those parks then ask your neighbours or the management. They will direct you to what needs watering. Just make sure it is not running onto other campers sites.

I would recommend no storage at this time. Just carry 15 - 20 metres of sullage hose. I recommend that it be in several pieces with joiners to provide the correct reach. Whilst you are learning your camping craft you can quiz your neighbours as to what they use. When you first venture into freedom camping you will find enough camp spots that don't need self containment, just bypass the ones that do. You have plenty of experience to gain before you need tanks and thus you have plenty of time to contemplate your requirements. You probably will not need them until you are ready for your second van.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Well sed Peter ... I have been travelling for the past eight years ... and have yet found van park that required grey water tanks ... some INSIST that you put it on their trees/grass.

I also "free" camp at least 10 our of every 14 days on average ... and I have yet to be in a camp that has had any grey water discharge restrictions.

Of course, it does completely depend on WHERE one chooses to travel and camp ... if one stays close to the east coast, larger towns, tourist places, very major highways, it seems there are some 'grey restricted' REST AREAS. I tend to avoid all those places.

Cheers - John

Ron-D · Guru

Caravan parks some have a drain point for grey water some don't and they welcome you letting it flow on the ground because grass loves the stuff . There's this campaign with the fabulous do gooder hero motor home club about evil grey water destroying the country side its absolute madness in my opinion...

PeterD · Guru

Ron-D wrote:
There's this campaign with the fabulous do gooder hero motor home club about evil grey water destroying the country side its absolute madness in my opinion...

Why do members keep on with that lie. Camp-sites were being closed or were under the threat of closure because of the mess being left behind by campers. In an attempt to prevent the closure the CMCA stepped in and pointed out there was a class of camping vehicle that could use these sites without leaving signs of them having been there. That was when the self containment programme got off the ground. Following those representations some councils were not completely closing some of the freedom camping areas. At first these camping-areas were classified as motorhome camps. Various caravanning bodies had little success in convincing the authorities that caravans could also be self contained and leave no trace. The next step was when the NACC got together with the CMCA and formed MoTOURing Australia - now RV Clubs of Australia Limited (RVCAL) - there was a change that lead to caravans being accepted in the CMCA Self Contained Vehicle (SCV) Policy. Camps that were previously classified as motorhome only parks became self contained camping areas. Following the lobbying of RVCAL there have been new camping areas established and other areas not closed for self contained vehicles.

Self containment has nothing to do with the greenies. It was formed by some of us travellers attempting to stop many of the camping areas from being closed. Please stop spreading that vile uninformed rubbish.

Ron-D · Guru

I can understand your point about leavening campsites a mess thats discracefull,but honestly caravan parks have no objection to harmless sink water being released onto there grounds,I know we're in a greenie controlled country ,but sink waters been ran onto the ground since the fist caravan turned a wheel, were a barren country and as sure as night follows day I know grass loves the stuff,releasing grey water on hard surfaces is another matter,We have no hope of ever beating this greenie nonsense but I notice this all coming from motorhome clubs, and motorhomes usually have grey water tanks standard this non sense works out well for them does it not?

PeterD · Guru

Ron, you know nothing about my political leanings. Yes I have a grey water tank, I installed it so I could camp at self contained camps but I have not used it for that purpose yet. I do use it when I am camped on hard standing like at home hill and other places. I also use it to save running hoses during one night stands. Where the water does not affect others I do water lawns and gardens, so do all the others I have encounter. I have been on the sidelines on the NACC side when this policy was formulated and seen the dealings. There was no greeny type attitudes that came to the fore.

The biggest outside influence would be the caravan parks associations. They have been pushing to get all the freedom camping areas closed. There are many reasons they put up for having these closed and one of the things they bring up is the mess caused by campers including the waste water. The caravan parks association are perhaps more the reason that we have to take the evasive action with self containment than the greenies.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Oops, clearly a topic of passion! Parks & camping aside, grey water isn't generally harmful to the greenery. During the worst of the drought years in Victoria, govt. actively encouraged householders to recycle grey water for said purpose, it was the only thing that stood between life and death for many lawns and gardens. There was (still is) a ton of paraphernalia available on the market to set up piping systems. So, is the problem of "mess" caused by waste water in the camp sites to do with over saturation?

As far as my situation goes being a newbie, and having first established where grey water run-off is permitted, it would be my natural instinct to ensure I don't encroach on other campers. Just logical I would have thought, but maybe not something I should take for granted in return?!

macka17 · Guru

You must admit though.
That Motorhomers. for decades. Have been up themselves.

Originally. when they first "Allowed" caravaners to join
They were getting short on funds.

We COULD pay fees and join.
but we COULD NOT vote at any meetings.
Yea. Guess how many joined?.

Some are ok But most are still up 'emselves a lot.

Sullage.

Some areas ARE very dry. and need every drop of wet stuff they can get.

Others are waterlogged, near. and if it sits on top will smell out the park.

Horses for courses.

Water to suit. dump to suit.

A coupla tubes under sink or along chassis rails can do no harm.
and keep everybody legal wherever they go. Plus don't cost much.

I can't see the problem.

Motherhen · Veteran Member

Ron D, often these sites are set up by CMCA negotiating with towns to add free or low cost camps, so they are additional to existing sites. The ones that require grey water self containment are usually ones in town, a good number of them on a sealed car park, where water being let to pour on the ground would be unacceptable to anyone. CMCA in promoting to towns the benefits of providing free and low cost campsites are bringing benefits to us all. In fact there is only one identified campground that does not allow any alternatives to an inbuilt grey water tanks, and that is Cooktown in Queensland. So if there is just one camping area in the whole of Australia that excludes those without inbuilt grey water tanks, it is no big deal.

The CMCA cannot be blamed for self contained changes to existing sites. They are not doing anything to have changes made in existing grounds. Nor can 'greenies' be targeted. If high use of a campground near a sensitive wetland is causing waterlogging or contamination, then of course it won't be suitable to dispose of water there. Perhaps in the past when there was only one or two visitors, nobody was fussed.

Most of the places we camp do not have restrictions on disposal of grey water, so long as common sense continues to apply. Taking it to vegetation on the perimeter of the site is more considerate that letting it go onto a clay surface to make a sticky mess for the next person. The majority of free and low cost camps are not on green grass.

Tony (Southern Comfort), while you are only using caravan parks, you will either have a sullage pit at your site to run a sullage hose into, or be asked to spread the water around to water the grass. Nothing extra needed.

When you come to camp at alternatives, rules will be very variable according to the site. So long as you can find somewhere to store and are able lift a portable tank, it is ideal and gives flexibility so you can visit those sites with stricter criteria. Many campgrounds that do not allow water to be spilt on the ground do not allow open buckets, jerry cans or collapsible jerry cans. Far better to get the 40 litre than the 25 litre, as often there is a dump point on or near the site so you can wheelie the tank there to empty. Forty litres is too much to lift (for me), but you can always empty it more frequently. If your tow vehicle has a tray-back, you could use a couple of planks as a ramp to pull it up. I can handle heavier weights this way. What ever places you go, happy camping and enjoy your caravanning.

Hi Macka smile

SouthernComfort · Guru

Thanks Motherhen. I'm pulling with a Ford Territory, so transporting a 40l can, even empty, is a big issue. As I said in the beginning, I think eventually I ought to have a contingency for GW capture rather than nothing at all and I'll need to work out a compromise taking all the comments on board.

Cheers,

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 26th of February 2017 05:37:00 PM

Ron-D · Guru

Mother hen thanks for your reply and I understand where your coming from and we're on the same page to a certain extent, and no doubt most decent sensible campers are,

common sense as well as haveing some sort of system to catch water on hard surfaces,or surfaces that water should not be drained onto is only the right thing to do.

what reAly gets up my nose is the push to make people fit expensive and in a lot cases these tanks that they have no room to fit on there vans just so they can freecamp ,a lot of old mates with there older setups should not have too be rejected from campsites in the future .

A water tank you can place on the ground should be all that's required,and let's face it these days the way things are going most of the so grey water comes from the shower and hand basins grey water in my opinion has never been cleaner..

Motherhen · Veteran Member

Hi Tony

You choose the campsites that suit your equipment. It depends where you go. If you want to stay in towns but outside of caravan parks it will require more self containment equipment than if you want to go out into rural area, outback and desert locations. We are more of the latter type of travellers. We have only once stayed somewhere that specified self contained for grey water and that was the Barcoo riverside camping at Blackall in Queensland, where the black floodplain mud becomes rather bottomless when wet. When registering the lady asked "Are you self contained" "We have a bucket" That's OK". There was a dump point at the site; so easy to carry the bucket and empty it without spilling a drop.

If you find you are in an area where the only campground doesn't accept buckets and jerrycans, then you can either go to a caravan park or head out of town a way and find a bush camp for the night. We have not needed to make this sort of decision. Rockylizard has had the same experiences for the same reasons.

If you have nowhere to store a portable tank, you may also have no room for a jerrycan of waste water. Some suggestions here of making a built in grey water tank from PVC pipe is an effective way for a small quantity of waste water. It doesn't take a huge amount of sewerage width PVC to hold forty odd litres of water, and that storage capacity should be manageable. Some caravanners have made a storage bracket under their caravan for transporting a portable wheelie tank. But lifting into place if full could still be an issue.

Do you have a bathroom in your caravan? This is where I would carry a waste water container. If you don't have a shower inside and are only looking a sink or body wash bowl water, the water could easily be tipped into a jerrycan while inside your caravan without spilling a drop on the ground. If you only have an external shower, you will not be able to use it in campgrounds specifying no water on the ground. For this reason a lot of self contained sites specify 'must have inbuilt shower', but they are coming from the wrong direction. They should be saying 'no showing outside' rather than tell us how and when we must wash ourselves.

Hi Ron

In areas where water can't be spilt on the ground, the portable tank is fine with the one exception of Cooktown. Most self contained only campsites do not accept buckets or jerrycans, because these have been known to overflow while people are showering or otherwise forgotten to check. This is a fair enough argument. Even a jerrycan can be set up sealed at the inlet and with an air outlet added and set up higher than the shower floor, the way inbuilt tanks are meant to be installed. But for camp supervisors who have been told to accept the wheelie tanks but not jerrycans, I doubt they would understand.

I know there are reports about someone letting water on the ground in places where it is specified not to, just as there are those who leave rubbish on the ground in roadside rest areas.

The bottom line is, so long as we follow the rules of each place, and go only where we fit the criteria, there will be no problems. If we can't meet that criteria, there are plenty of other places we can go.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Hi Motherhen,

The more I read, the more I realize what a minefield of inconsistent rules and regulations must exist out there, along with variable interpretations - and that's just on the topic of grey water. Heaven help those (hugely growing number of) newbies who may not be doing this research. Common sense should prevail most of the time, but it seems not.

We have a full bathroom in the van and my initial thought, before I posted, was to transport a container in the shower. I was just curious as to what others are doing. The van is not an off-roader, so no real desert treks in sight for the foreseeable. I like the idea of the 20l collapsible container for obvious reasons, but when we venture away from parks and find there are too many places rejecting it, but would favour a wheelie unit, then maybe I need one of those. My back will not tolerate a 40l should it need to be lifted in and out of the van full, so I'd go for 25l max and put up with emptying in often. I'm warming to the idea of slinging some pvc pipes under the chassis though. At the moment I'm tempted to go for the cheapest and simplest option until if/when we hit the first problem and then upgrade if necessary.

Motherhen · Veteran Member

Hi Tony

For campsites, it is as simple as reading the rules for that site as they do all vary, but common sense is seeing what the place is like usually tells you anyway. If you want to see how it works have a look here www.australiasomuchtosee.com/qa7.htm.
We carry a collapsible container in case needed to remove grey water, but it has never been needed. We had it from when we wanted extra fresh water when camping without the caravan and it takes up next to no room. We don't stop in towns unless we have to (eg key places to see there) so that usually means a caravan park, or we want the services of a caravan park (usually once or twice a week), so we have not been to any 'self contained only' sites other that Blackall which I mentioned earlier.

Apart from things like minor differences in state road rules (need to keep on top of speed limits for towing as you travel) everything else is pretty consistent across the country.

Happy travels.

AlanP · Member

Seems everyone wants to freedom camp these days. In the past it was in the majority, motorhomes that seeked out places to say away from caravan parks. But all the new freedom campers should take the responsibility of protecting the freedom sites, so they will continue to be freedom sites. This would mean that they have a system of containing the grey water when needed or appropriate. It does not mean all units must have a fancy steel or plastic tank hanging underneath - just whatever is needed for the unit involved. My big hate is to see someone spew filthy water from the side of their van, and then move away leaving the next poor camper to walk through the mess. Alan

iana · Guru

For what its worth, I have a 70 lt. grey water tank, it was part of the original build, but I had to reposition it to improve weight and balance.

Possum3 · Guru

Tony, Please don't get to overthinking the issue -We have been travelling in campers and caravans for well over 20 years - We have never, repeat never been reprimanded or refused a permit with the collapsible system (Even at Cooktown). There have been times when we have needed a permit to camp in sensitive areas, and again never been refused a permit. Peter D is absolutely correct about the reasoning behind the "Furore" - Please just go out there and enjoy whilst being conscientious about your footprint on this great land.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Thanks Possum3, that's encouraging and more in tune with my instinct to "keep it simple" (to begin with anyway). In the same vein I don't want to over-engineer the van or equip it needlessly. As with most things I think we'll feel our way along having taken all the good advice on board. Called into Ray's this morning, since I was driving by, and picked up the collapsible for $14.99, plus a length of sullage hose to fit. Other than that I suspect we'll be getting more use out of the main sullage hoses, I'm setting up 4x5m lengths.

Cloak · Guru

I use dehydrated water pellets in the grey tank and spread the dust on a dirt road somewhere - much lighter to lug around...

Can I get in trouble for that?

Cheers.

msg · Guru

Course you will. Dropping anything on the ground will get you into trouble.

briche · Guru

I manufactured my grey water tanks from two lengths of 100 mm plastic pipe with suitable ends and drain pipes that flow to the side of the van Via stop taps. Combined they hold about 30 liters and they can be emptied at a suitable location.

attached is a photo of the installation under the van.

hope that helps

briche

Sorry the photo is upside down but you get the idea

briche
-- Edited by briche on Friday 3rd of March 2017 10:12:29 PM

-- Edited by briche on Friday 3rd of March 2017 10:14:02 PM

SouthernComfort · Guru

Thanks briche, a picture speaks a thousand words. I'm getting increasingly drawn to this type of set up, and all those materials are at Bunnings - easy!

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Saturday 4th of March 2017 03:36:37 PM

Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.