In today's news, it states the ACCC are taking Jayco to court over misleading advertising. The article (and the ACCC web site) states Jayco have shown images in their advertising depicting their "off-road" products on 4wd only roads and undertaking water crossing. More, they have promoted RVs with phrases such as purpose-built off-road hybrid RV, built with off-road travel at the forefront, all terrain, and designed specifically for off-road adventures.
Yet the warranty details specifically exclude coverage for use on "water crossings, damage from use on corrugated and uneven surfaces or any damage from use on 4WD-only tracks" the ACCC filing said.
Chatting to a guy next to us at the Kununurra CP who is planning on the Gibb River Road in a few days (I have just crossed and he was asking about conditions/places). He has a Jayco Outback (I think it had a sticker saying "Cross Track" or similar, unfortunately he's left now). He saw the article and stated to me he's pretty confident he's covered as that is what he was told at the time he purchased (I asked him if he specifically mentioned the Gibb or similar tracks, but he said he was simply told it was build for "off track" travels). On a few forums I looked at, the Jayco owners not only feel their vans are built for 4wding, many have taken them over the Gibb and similar. I certainly saw quite a few at the various campspots.
Is the general feeling that these vans are suitable for 4wd tracks (whatever that means)? Please note: the comments from the article are quoted from the ACCC website and do not reflect a personal opinion on the issue. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.
Not only Jaco making off road statements.
Have friend with an "off road" tandem axle van suitably constructed for steep entry and exit angles in creek crossings. They found they do not have enough traction with their 4 wheel drive vehicle with heavy lugged tyres, to actually pull the 3.5t out of the creek. This is why farmers have duel or tri tyred drive wheels on tractors.
This all only one part, the fridge and airconditioner pipes cracked and doors etc fall off.
Neil
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:39 AM Jun 16, 2025
I find the whole industry a bit of a joke, driven by fashion.
Independent suspension is not a sensible choice for a trailer, but that is the fashion, so that is what manufacturers make.
Cheers,
Peter
landy said
09:41 PM Jun 16, 2025
I think the ACCC have a fairly strong case. Many manufacturers not just Jayco are very fanciful with the truth when advertising there products.
Whenarewethere said
10:21 PM Jun 16, 2025
Also worth reading in one's car manual how much it can tow offroad.
My car has some numbers that really don't add up!
2000 kg maximum can be towed.
Car has 500 kg payload.
Maximum 350 kg tow ball weight (yes 350 kg!).
Maximum Un-braked towing 750 kg.
Maximum offroad towing 750 kg.
Also rear axle load is next to nothing 1360 kg.
Greg 1 said
10:27 PM Jun 16, 2025
I really believe Jayco are wasting their money fighting this.
Consumer law is pretty cut and dried these days and given their advertising showing their off road vans being towed into a number of distinctly offroad situations including through water crossings, all a lot more adventurous than the odd piece of dirt road, there is a reasonable expectation from consumers, that if they buy one of these vans, that they are fit for that purpose and are warranted to cover that use.
Hiding a warranty clause in the fine print isn't going to cut it when all your advertising is pushing the off road barrow.
Regardless how good their product may or may not be, it is highly misleading and false advertising to strongly promote that use but then not warrant that on page 10 in the fine print.
Jayco are stuffed and better be ready for a significant fine.
Other manufacturers need to start looking at their advertising and fine print too.
And it is not enough not to advertise it.
If your sales staff say this is an off road van you are still in trouble if you don't cover that in the warranty.
montie said
04:44 PM Jun 17, 2025
Whenever the ACCC decide to flex their muscles in the RV industry Jayco are usually the first port of call given they are the largest manufacturer in Aus. The thinking there would be that if we can pull the big boys into line the rest of the industry will follow.
At this stage the ACCC are alleging that Jayco misled the consumer in how they have described and advertised their products, an allegation that Jayco have stated they will defend.
montie said
04:54 PM Jun 17, 2025
woolman wrote:
Not only Jaco making off road statements. Have friend with an "off road" tandem axle van suitably constructed for steep entry and exit angles in creek crossings. They found they do not have enough traction with their 4 wheel drive vehicle with heavy lugged tyres, to actually pull the 3.5t out of the creek. This is why farmers have duel or tri tyred drive wheels on tractors.
This all only one part, the fridge and airconditioner pipes cracked and doors etc fall off.
Neil
It would be interesting to know what that manufacturer states in his warranty and handbook about the capabilities of his van in these types of situations. Common sense from the operator would surely dictate that attempting to pull a 3.5 tonne van out of steep creekbeds might be stretching the capabilities of his 4wd tug and his van!
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 17th of June 2025 05:21:34 PM
Rodsvan said
04:32 AM Jun 18, 2025
I'm in agreement with the ACCC on this one. If a manufacturer shows an ad with product performing in a particular way, then it creates an expectation for the buyers (no matter how naive that is) that the product will perform as shown.
Everyone from car makers to pharmaceutical products show ads which appear to show products working in unreasonable ways. A lot will have a tiny disclaimer along the bottom of the ad or a voice-over saying the product 'may' do certain things.
At least most of us are sceptical enough to see through the BS in advertising.
This link sums up 80% of the problem, I have a friend who purchased an imported motorhome with a toyota engine. He is ia wood duck, he got ripped of because he didnt know what he needed and he lacks the skills to research, consume and retain the information to ask the correct questions. the end result is he has a little motor home that is not fit purpose, its not the dealers fault.
Bottomline dont blame someone else because of glossy advertising, its your responsibility to do you due dilligence.
And 50% of that 80% its allways someone elses fault because you lack comon sense, and didnt readeverything.
HandyWalter said
04:14 PM Jul 17, 2025
i read on many New Age Facebook pages, owners selling their vans and saying they are off road or semi off road. Until very recently only a few specific models were advertised as Off road by NA brochures. Sellers dislike me asking where they got the idea their van is off road in any shape. What annoys me is that the moderators do nothing about these blatant false claims and advertising. Their response is buyer beware. Which is OK but it is simple to check ads and remove these false statement. My van NA MR Deluxe was sold as Semi off road. All I can say is it is now more off road ready now with a lot of my mods but still not true off road.
Burt65 said
05:14 PM Jul 17, 2025
If you check the Jayco website, they are called Off-grid now, not off-road anymore...
Times are changing...
Silkwood said
06:54 PM Jul 17, 2025
"Bottomline dont blame someone else because of glossy advertising, its your responsibility to do you due dilligence."
Sorry, GD, can't agree here. If the business uses specific images or wording to suggest a product's fair use, then disputes warranty coverage based upon such usage, that may indicate deception...
There is, of course, a limit of credibility. If someone thinks a Hilux can tow a tow truck, a Mitsubishi 4wd, a tractor and (what appears to be) a Nissan 4wd out of a bog, all at the same time, perhaps they deserve to have a warranty claim dismissed!
Cheers, Mark
-- Edited by Silkwood on Thursday 17th of July 2025 06:56:56 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:31 PM Jul 17, 2025
Burt65 wrote:
they are called Off-grid now,
So what does that mean?
Cheers,
Peter
Burt65 said
09:22 AM Jul 18, 2025
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Burt65 wrote:
they are called Off-grid now,
So what does that mean?
Cheers,
Peter
Not sure.. I guess they are simply trying to cover their bums from future litigations...
We had the same issue with the Triumph brand.. They were always showing videos and photos of their motorcycle offroad. One day a good friend of mine after a jump, he bottomed out and crack the sump. Triumph refuse to pay for the repair, (under warranty) because in the manual it states that you are not supposed to go offroad. He took them to court and by just showing the video of the advertisements based on which he previously bought the motorcycle, was able to win the case..
Just after that, within a month, all Triumph motorcycle video now online, just shown motorcycle on dirt and gravel roads only, (that's the same as what the owner manual state) No more jumping and no more real offroad..
I presume for Jayco to change from offroad to offgrid, offer them the same protection from customers going to the extreme with their vehicles... I think they call it, a technicality in court. But don't quote me on it..
HandyWalter said
03:36 PM Jul 18, 2025
Off grid I would preume is you can live in the van for some time before needing water and power. If Im carefull I can live off grid for 10 days, water being the resource that runs out.
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:56 PM Jul 18, 2025
Burt65 wrote:
Not sure.. I guess they are simply trying to cover their bums from future litigations...
I doubt it will do that.
An "off grid" house is generally considered to be one that is not connected to the grid and cannot be connected to the grid, yet still provides all of its own electrical energy, not for 1 day, not for a week, not for a month, but always.
Our OKA has no connection to the grid capability. It cannot be "plugged-in". And we do not carry a generator.
How many caravans have you ever seen with that capability? There are a few, no doubt, but I have never heard of one coming out of the Jayco factory.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 18th of July 2025 03:57:49 PM
Burt65 said
04:36 PM Jul 18, 2025
Let me try again..
If I advertise that it is off road capable, and you go off road, there is no much I can do, legally
If I advertise Off grid, you can still avoid the caravan parks and therefore going off road, but now I'm not oblige to cover the warranty as I never said that was off road capable.. They can say that, that was your own interpretation of Off grid. Does it make sense?
Try Google for Jayco New Off Road Caravan for a 2025 model, and see what you get... Off course, I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time either..
-- Edited by Burt65 on Friday 18th of July 2025 04:40:16 PM
-- Edited by Burt65 on Friday 18th of July 2025 04:41:48 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:21 PM Jul 18, 2025
But it won't be "off grid" for more than a day (or 2?), so you solved one problem and created another one.
It still can't do what is advertised.
Cheers,
Peter
Burt65 said
09:08 AM Jul 19, 2025
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
But it won't be "off grid" for more than a day (or 2?), so you solved one problem and created another one. It still can't do what is advertised. Cheers, Peter
Even if it goes off grid only for 5 minutes, it doesn't really matter. Legally, they are fully cover now from any possible warranty claim of things that got broken while off road, and they didn't provide any false advertisement.
Most caravan these days have one battery and at least one solar panel on the roof. Using it only for the LED lights, that could go for ever.. They were not trying to solve a problem, they only wanted to stop people claiming for broken things after they went off road during the warranty period..
And they did it..
To be honest, this is old news. In the Motorcycle industry, this happened about 7 years ago..
PeterInSa said
12:01 PM Jul 19, 2025
Just back from Northern WA, in the Free 72hr RV park in Kalgoorlie, saw many All Terrain, Outback, Off Road, Labeled caravans with only one wheel/tyre on the back van bumper. Vehicle wheels were a different size, also probably only 1 spare, so probably on The Tar Tourists.
Surprised at the number of small new vans ( Hybrids) with the same wheel track as the tug. would be great for bush tracks especially if a pop top. Self and mate 21ft Vans, drive to the conditions, 2 spares for the van 3 for the Cruiser, Chainsaw and shears for the tracks, Shovels/Picks/Traction Boards for the creek washouts.
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:38 PM Jul 19, 2025
If you want to tour the more remote areas of this country then you don't buy a caravan. That is a fundamental starting point.
Apart from the limitations as to were they will go, they can not carry sufficient fuel or water for many remote routes. We can carry over 300L of water and 450L of fuel.
We have just come down the northern end of the Canning Stock Route. There are no caravans there and just a few camper trailers (tearing up the track) and we heard about one cross-over in a group that needed a tow across many dunes. Along the way there are a handful of abandoned camper trailers with broken springs and axles that are too difficult to salvage.
Then we came through the Rudall River (Karlamilyi) National Park. We saw 2 camper trailers and 1 caravan. It was an exploration base being delivered to a new site. It was in plenty of trouble.
We have just stopped for the night on the banks of the Fortescue River north of Newman. We picked a spot where we won't be bothered by the caravan crowd. :)
So, if you want to explore more of Australia, a caravan is not the way and nothing that you can do to one and no advertising can change that. They are what they are.
Then again, the more who choose caravans, the better we like it. :)
I question should be what does "off road" realy mean ?
In reality off road is driving on un formed roads.
In caravan speak off road is driving on formed unsealed roads.
If your buying a caravan to travell roads like the Gibb River Road, then you should ask the question of the dealer.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:47 AM Jul 25, 2025
I am not sure why the Gibb River Road is used as an extreme example. It is a fully graded ROAD maintained for moving cattle in trucks. My son drove it in Pajero with his family of 4 towing a older Jayco Expanda in the last 12 months. The Expanda had a decent suspension fitted before they went (and NO, it was not independent), plus wheels and tyres compatible with the Paj.
The suspension is a set of aftermarket rear springs designed for a 79 Landcruiser. They transformed the Jayco and parts are available almost anywhere.
To get decent performance, standard leaf springs simply need to be longer. Independent suspension on a trailer is just a fashion.
I am not sure why the Gibb River Road is used as an extreme example. It is a fully graded ROAD maintained for moving cattle in trucks. My son drove it in Pajero with his family of 4 towing a older Jayco Expanda in the last 12 months. The Expanda had a decent suspension fitted before they went (and NO, it was not independent), plus wheels and tyres compatible with the Paj.
The suspension is a set of aftermarket rear springs designed for a 79 Landcruiser. They transformed the Jayco and parts are available almost anywhere.
To get decent performance, standard leaf springs simply need to be longer. Independent suspension on a trailer is just a fashion.
Cheers,
Peter
I don't see any shockies on that set up.
Are any fitted?
My ageing 1999 21'6" Jayco Westport (never off blacktop for >250,000k) doesn't have shocks & judging by the lack of movement of kitchen appliances permanently sitting on non slip mats, doesn't need them.
It has load sharing Rocker suspension with a pair of leaf spring units on both sides. Have only changed the tyres due to age .. never any sign of uneven or excessive wear.
Is the Independent suspension primarily about ground clearance (ie no beam across the van joining the axels)
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:37 PM Aug 4, 2025
Cupie wrote:
I don't see any shockies on that set up.
Are any fitted?
...snip...
Is the Independent suspension primarily about ground clearance (ie no beam across the van joining the axels)
No dampers fitted. It would be better with them, but he ran out of time.
With leaf springs, there is inter-leaf friction which helps a lot, but still better with dampers.
There is absolutely no justification or benefit to have independent suspension on a trailer. It is a fashion driven by the fact that most caravan leaf springs that have been traditionally sold are terrible. The solution is a decent length leaf spring which is cheaper and much more reliable.
Almost all independent caravan suspensions are totally useless without high quality dampers (usually 2 per wheel) because there is no damping whatever without them. Most tandem independents are also non load sharing which is a very bad idea.
In today's news, it states the ACCC are taking Jayco to court over misleading advertising. The article (and the ACCC web site) states Jayco have shown images in their advertising depicting their "off-road" products on 4wd only roads and undertaking water crossing. More, they have promoted RVs with phrases such as purpose-built off-road hybrid RV, built with off-road travel at the forefront, all terrain, and designed specifically for off-road adventures.
Yet the warranty details specifically exclude coverage for use on "water crossings, damage from use on corrugated and uneven surfaces or any damage from use on 4WD-only tracks" the ACCC filing said.
Chatting to a guy next to us at the Kununurra CP who is planning on the Gibb River Road in a few days (I have just crossed and he was asking about conditions/places). He has a Jayco Outback (I think it had a sticker saying "Cross Track" or similar, unfortunately he's left now). He saw the article and stated to me he's pretty confident he's covered as that is what he was told at the time he purchased (I asked him if he specifically mentioned the Gibb or similar tracks, but he said he was simply told it was build for "off track" travels). On a few forums I looked at, the Jayco owners not only feel their vans are built for 4wding, many have taken them over the Gibb and similar. I certainly saw quite a few at the various campspots.
Is the general feeling that these vans are suitable for 4wd tracks (whatever that means)? Please note: the comments from the article are quoted from the ACCC website and do not reflect a personal opinion on the issue. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/caravan-maker-jayco-sued-over-offroad-claims/news-story/728d4fd1a77a0d87b5d7f2110ed01ddd
Cheers,
Mark
Have friend with an "off road" tandem axle van suitably constructed for steep entry and exit angles in creek crossings. They found they do not have enough traction with their 4 wheel drive vehicle with heavy lugged tyres, to actually pull the 3.5t out of the creek. This is why farmers have duel or tri tyred drive wheels on tractors.
This all only one part, the fridge and airconditioner pipes cracked and doors etc fall off.
Neil
Independent suspension is not a sensible choice for a trailer, but that is the fashion, so that is what manufacturers make.
Cheers,
Peter
Also worth reading in one's car manual how much it can tow offroad.
My car has some numbers that really don't add up!
2000 kg maximum can be towed.
Car has 500 kg payload.
Maximum 350 kg tow ball weight (yes 350 kg!).
Maximum Un-braked towing 750 kg.
Maximum offroad towing 750 kg.
Also rear axle load is next to nothing 1360 kg.
Whenever the ACCC decide to flex their muscles in the RV industry Jayco are usually the first port of call given they are the largest manufacturer in Aus. The thinking there would be that if we can pull the big boys into line the rest of the industry will follow.
At this stage the ACCC are alleging that Jayco misled the consumer in how they have described and advertised their products, an allegation that Jayco have stated they will defend.
It would be interesting to know what that manufacturer states in his warranty and handbook about the capabilities of his van in these types of situations. Common sense from the operator would surely dictate that attempting to pull a 3.5 tonne van out of steep creekbeds might be stretching the capabilities of his 4wd tug and his van!
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 17th of June 2025 05:21:34 PM
Everyone from car makers to pharmaceutical products show ads which appear to show products working in unreasonable ways. A lot will have a tiny disclaimer along the bottom of the ad or a voice-over saying the product 'may' do certain things.
At least most of us are sceptical enough to see through the BS in advertising.
https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t71977930/back-in-my-day/
This link sums up 80% of the problem, I have a friend who purchased an imported motorhome with a toyota engine. He is ia wood duck, he got ripped of because he didnt know what he needed and he lacks the skills to research, consume and retain the information to ask the correct questions. the end result is he has a little motor home that is not fit purpose, its not the dealers fault.
Bottomline dont blame someone else because of glossy advertising, its your responsibility to do you due dilligence.
And 50% of that 80% its allways someone elses fault because you lack comon sense, and didnt readeverything.
Times are changing...
"Bottomline dont blame someone else because of glossy advertising, its your responsibility to do you due dilligence."
Sorry, GD, can't agree here. If the business uses specific images or wording to suggest a product's fair use, then disputes warranty coverage based upon such usage, that may indicate deception...
There is, of course, a limit of credibility. If someone thinks a Hilux can tow a tow truck, a Mitsubishi 4wd, a tractor and (what appears to be) a Nissan 4wd out of a bog, all at the same time, perhaps they deserve to have a warranty claim dismissed!
Cheers, Mark
-- Edited by Silkwood on Thursday 17th of July 2025 06:56:56 PM
So what does that mean?
Cheers,
Peter
Not sure.. I guess they are simply trying to cover their bums from future litigations...
We had the same issue with the Triumph brand.. They were always showing videos and photos of their motorcycle offroad. One day a good friend of mine after a jump, he bottomed out and crack the sump. Triumph refuse to pay for the repair, (under warranty) because in the manual it states that you are not supposed to go offroad. He took them to court and by just showing the video of the advertisements based on which he previously bought the motorcycle, was able to win the case..
Just after that, within a month, all Triumph motorcycle video now online, just shown motorcycle on dirt and gravel roads only, (that's the same as what the owner manual state) No more jumping and no more real offroad..
I presume for Jayco to change from offroad to offgrid, offer them the same protection from customers going to the extreme with their vehicles... I think they call it, a technicality in court. But don't quote me on it..
I doubt it will do that.
An "off grid" house is generally considered to be one that is not connected to the grid and cannot be connected to the grid, yet still provides all of its own electrical energy, not for 1 day, not for a week, not for a month, but always.
Our OKA has no connection to the grid capability. It cannot be "plugged-in". And we do not carry a generator.
How many caravans have you ever seen with that capability? There are a few, no doubt, but I have never heard of one coming out of the Jayco factory.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 18th of July 2025 03:57:49 PM
Let me try again..
If I advertise that it is off road capable, and you go off road, there is no much I can do, legally
If I advertise Off grid, you can still avoid the caravan parks and therefore going off road, but now I'm not oblige to cover the warranty as I never said that was off road capable.. They can say that, that was your own interpretation of Off grid. Does it make sense?
Try Google for Jayco New Off Road Caravan for a 2025 model, and see what you get... Off course, I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time either..
-- Edited by Burt65 on Friday 18th of July 2025 04:40:16 PM
-- Edited by Burt65 on Friday 18th of July 2025 04:41:48 PM
It still can't do what is advertised.
Cheers,
Peter
Even if it goes off grid only for 5 minutes, it doesn't really matter. Legally, they are fully cover now from any possible warranty claim of things that got broken while off road, and they didn't provide any false advertisement.
Most caravan these days have one battery and at least one solar panel on the roof. Using it only for the LED lights, that could go for ever.. They were not trying to solve a problem, they only wanted to stop people claiming for broken things after they went off road during the warranty period..
And they did it..
To be honest, this is old news. In the Motorcycle industry, this happened about 7 years ago..
Surprised at the number of small new vans ( Hybrids) with the same wheel track as the tug. would be great for bush tracks especially if a pop top. Self and mate 21ft Vans, drive to the conditions, 2 spares for the van 3 for the Cruiser, Chainsaw and shears for the tracks, Shovels/Picks/Traction Boards for the creek washouts.
If you want to tour the more remote areas of this country then you don't buy a caravan. That is a fundamental starting point.
Apart from the limitations as to were they will go, they can not carry sufficient fuel or water for many remote routes. We can carry over 300L of water and 450L of fuel.
We have just come down the northern end of the Canning Stock Route. There are no caravans there and just a few camper trailers (tearing up the track) and we heard about one cross-over in a group that needed a tow across many dunes. Along the way there are a handful of abandoned camper trailers with broken springs and axles that are too difficult to salvage.
Then we came through the Rudall River (Karlamilyi) National Park. We saw 2 camper trailers and 1 caravan. It was an exploration base being delivered to a new site. It was in plenty of trouble.
We have just stopped for the night on the banks of the Fortescue River north of Newman. We picked a spot where we won't be bothered by the caravan crowd. :)
So, if you want to explore more of Australia, a caravan is not the way and nothing that you can do to one and no advertising can change that. They are what they are.
Then again, the more who choose caravans, the better we like it. :)
Cheers,
Peter
I question should be what does "off road" realy mean ?
In reality off road is driving on un formed roads.
In caravan speak off road is driving on formed unsealed roads.
If your buying a caravan to travell roads like the Gibb River Road, then you should ask the question of the dealer.
I am not sure why the Gibb River Road is used as an extreme example. It is a fully graded ROAD maintained for moving cattle in trucks.
My son drove it in Pajero with his family of 4 towing a older Jayco Expanda in the last 12 months. The Expanda had a decent suspension fitted before they went (and NO, it was not independent), plus wheels and tyres compatible with the Paj.
The suspension is a set of aftermarket rear springs designed for a 79 Landcruiser. They transformed the Jayco and parts are available almost anywhere.
To get decent performance, standard leaf springs simply need to be longer. Independent suspension on a trailer is just a fashion.
Cheers,
Peter
I don't see any shockies on that set up.
Are any fitted?
My ageing 1999 21'6" Jayco Westport (never off blacktop for >250,000k) doesn't have shocks & judging by the lack of movement of kitchen appliances permanently sitting on non slip mats, doesn't need them.
It has load sharing Rocker suspension with a pair of leaf spring units on both sides. Have only changed the tyres due to age .. never any sign of uneven or excessive wear.
Is the Independent suspension primarily about ground clearance (ie no beam across the van joining the axels)
No dampers fitted. It would be better with them, but he ran out of time.
With leaf springs, there is inter-leaf friction which helps a lot, but still better with dampers.
There is absolutely no justification or benefit to have independent suspension on a trailer. It is a fashion driven by the fact that most caravan leaf springs that have been traditionally sold are terrible. The solution is a decent length leaf spring which is cheaper and much more reliable.
Almost all independent caravan suspensions are totally useless without high quality dampers (usually 2 per wheel) because there is no damping whatever without them. Most tandem independents are also non load sharing which is a very bad idea.
Cheers,
Peter