I have found quite a lot of information in this forum on converting from AGM to Lithium batteries - & still a lot to get through.
Thanks to all contributors for your inputs.
I have a question - hopefully it will be simple. Recently via this forum, I bought one of Woolworths' VOLTEX Lithium batteries & thought I may be able to "drop it in without too much alteration". It seems from several members I can do that but I won't be able to charge it up to 100%. Then going back to my technician days where we had a little ditty - "Our job is not to do or die but to modify!" I thought I might be able to find my way through the SETEC Mk 2 power supply/charger & do some mods. Of course that would be a bit difficult as Jayco/SETEC don't like sharing cct diagrams with outsiders, customers.
There are various companies holding Black Friday sales & I noted that Supercheap is one with a "special" on Victron Blue Smart IP65 Chargers. The small one is 12v 10A BPC121031014R; there is a 15A & a 20A unit available as well. They all have a Li-ion setting. I assume if I get one of these chargers that I will be able to charge the new lithium battery ok.
As far as my solar goes I have a 20A Renogy controller - set to Lithium.
We're on our way home - they can have this "Down South" weather - in 4 nights at Toowoomba, we've had (are having) 3 electrical storms including one that formed out of a Super Cell - one would think this is the tropics!
Are We Lost said
10:27 PM Nov 13, 2024
Most definitely the Victron charger will do the job. I suggest you look on Amazon as their prices are cheaper. The IP65 15 amp is about the same price as the 10 amp on Supercheap special. Even at standard price I would choose bigger than the 10 amp.
If the budget permits, I would add a Victron smart shunt. It keeps track of battery state of charge etc regardless of whether the input amps are from solar or charger. With Lithium, voltage is a poor indicator of state of charge. It's great to see instant amps in or out and precise percentage of battery charge. The charger and the shunt are both viewable on the app.
I should warn however that the Victron app is awful. It gives the information you need but needs to reconnect every single time you want to look. It only takes a few seconds but having to do it every time is just bad design. There are graphs with selectable amps, volts, state of charge and more but they too are poorly designed. A great brand let down by a poorly designed app. Hopefully we will see an update soon.
Now that I have used the system, I wish I had bought the BMV712 battery monitor instead of the smart shunt. It is also a smart shunt but with an LCD display. Having a gauge means a glance to see battery information rather than having to open the app.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 13th of November 2024 10:28:34 PM
valiant81 said
02:16 PM Nov 14, 2024
Hi all; I up graded my own Jayco caravan that also had the setec 11 charger built in. You are right in saying that, charger does not have a lithium profile. I also bought a Voltex lithium battery, a 12 volt 300 ah. Mine was on special through " catch " and for just over $1460 was a bargain. Came with a full 5 year warrentee. So far so good.
With your new battery you will have to work out what you want to run off your lithium battery and size the battery ( ies ) correctly. Do you just want a couple of light , tv, diesel heater etc or do you have a inverter to produce 240 volts mains voltage , throw in a coffee maker or some othe power hungery devise and you will find that your 100 amp battery will most likely not have the reserve and flatten, not as fast as the old agm batteries were you you only have a 50 % capacity. 6 months ago i up graded my agm batteries( 2 x 220 ah batteries that weighed in around 60 Kgms each ), so a very big saveing to be had.
Victron make some pritty good equipment and it is what i used in my jayco pop top. I unpluged the setec from mains power and still use the select and a fuse box. The wiring has not been altered. But in my case i have put the lithium battery under the bed. I also have a victron 12 volt 30 amp smart battery charger. One thing you will need is a current bridge, this is wired into the negitive terminal of the lithium battery and once installed and set up will give you a good guage on the capacity of your lithium battery ( a bit like a fuel guage in a car. ) the smart shunt will also show you the voltage og you lithium battery, this will remain pritty constant though. Do you have solar ??? you will also need to up grade the solar controller ( again victron ) to a mppt type.
All of my upgrade has been Victron, smart charger, solar controller and current bridge. The best part is all of the victron upgrade is blue toothed to my phone and at a glance i can see how my set up is performing. So far so good !!! There are other very well desighned equipment out their, but it was the blue toothe feature that sold me, so easy to set up or adjust some of the settings.
As my wife and my self like to free camp a fair bit several times a year and also living in Tasmania and with the old AGM batteries that started to fail after 4 years, i investergated in a small 2kva generator and befor the upgrade was using that generator to top up the house batteries. Now with the amount of solar on the roof i have not used the generator so far.
-- Edited by valiant81 on Thursday 14th of November 2024 02:18:28 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:38 PM Nov 14, 2024
Are We Lost, thanks for the advice. I had a look at Amazon but found the website rather confusing with Aus/NZ parts mixed up with US, UK & various levels of dust/water protection.
Bunnings too carry these items for reasonable prices (online only) - their 15A charger was only a few $ more than Supercheap's 10A one.
I assume your experience with the app was similar to the Jayco BMPRO system that Jayco now put in their campers, caravans - it has to be "on" every time you want to check a reading (my son had issues a couple of months ago with his almost new second hand camper but he wouldn't let me cut a hole for an external meter & switch!
Valiant81 - your experience is similar to what I'm going through - my load is not quite as "heavy". We have instant coffee - no coffee maker - our 17' van doesn't allow for such luxuries & my wife since undergoing major surgery earlier in the year has gone off coffee. She would appreciate your avatar as she worked in the old hospital at Coober Pedy in the late 60s.
I bought the Lithium battery because my AGM had carked it & it was a way of reducing weight as well. I only have a small inverter used occasionally to recharge batteries in cameras, computers. The 100Ah VOLTEX will be sufficient for us. I do have solar & have connected that to a new Renogy 20A MPPT controller - this will be doing most of the heavy lifting during the day.
At home with the van under the car port, I'll use my 2 sets of portable panels (similar to what Jonothon (arewethereyet) has although it's not quite as sophisticated. It's for this reason that I'll be happy with a smart 15A mains powered charger. NQ certainly has no lack of sun.
One job when I get home will be to have a look at the SETEC to see where I can couple into it to utilise the fuse box, etc. It's mounted under the fridge & I've only had it partially out once. The battery, pump, HWS & airconditioner compressor all live under my bed (we have singles).
I don't think I'll be bored with nothing to do when we arrive home this week.
valiant81 said
03:02 PM Nov 15, 2024
Hi Warren / Pat; for recharging our phone i have a little 12 usb socket that also has a volt meter built in ( e bay and around $20.00 cost ) this works well for recharging our phone and works well. I also have a small inverter 300 watts and pure sign wave as well. This was in the early days of Vast tv and at the time there was only 240 volt models and i had to use a inverter, i now have a dedicated 12 volt Vast receiver and the only times the inverter gets used is for my electric shaver and for my lap top computer.
But i do also have a chinese diesel heater and have wired in a couple of 12 power outlets for the 2 x engle fridges, one is used for drinks and the other is used for food , we find that the 3 way fridge is to tempermental in keeping things cold and it takes a couple of days to sort it's self out. I also have a couple (3 ) amature radios that also rely on a good 12 volt sorce.
In my case i just turned the selc11 off at the power point and removed the plug , the rest of the selc 11 works fine and no wireing was altered. If you are still upgrading and this is why i choose victron was with one app i can look at who my set up is working and no need for external meters or switches, the best part is that it " just works".
TimTim said
05:25 PM Nov 16, 2024
Hi Warren,
I replied to you on another thread about using your Setec to charge your battery.
This is what i posted.
'Ok Warren I have done some tests on my battery. Your Setec acts as a power supply providing 13.65V to the battery so i discharged my battery then charged it up to 13.65V with my Victron charger. I then ran a discharge test today at a rate of approximately 8A and taking it down to 10.6V using a fridge and lights as my battery tester hasnt arrived yet.
I was pleasantly surprised as they drew 108.8Ah from the battery. Judging by this you should have no issues charging your new battery with your Setec especially with your low power draw.
Good luck
Tim'I
If you do want to buy a charger though.
Bunnings do not actually sell the chargers, they are sold by Victron though the Bunnings Marketplace.
Take search and you can find the !5A cheaper elsewhere.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/274984150613?
If your Setec is similar to what my Centurion was in my old camper then all you need to do is wire the battery to the Setec, the same as the one you removed and simply unplug the Setec from the 240 power point. You then simply connect you Victron Charger to your battery and plug it into the the power point so that when you connect up to 240V power you battery gets charged.
Oooops I just repeated what Valient posted.
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 16th of November 2024 05:27:44 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
07:00 PM Nov 16, 2024
Thanks Tim,
Sorry about the duplicated query to you.
I've found a crowd that have offices in most Australian capital cities - Energy Eco (energyeco.com.au). Their prices are the best I've found, however a mate in Townsville is going to chase a solar supplier.
I assume from what I've read in the SETEC handbook that the 15A charger will be adequate for my use. The SETEC is capable of 35A but the charging current has been set to 15A to preserve the battery.
TimTim said
05:11 PM Nov 17, 2024
Hi Warren,
Not a problem and I was just unsure whether you had read what i posted on the other thread.
I saw the Energy Eco price but I did not reference that for various reasons. They state that they are located in various Australian cities yet there are no physical addresses and only one Sydney phone number. Whilst they may be legitimate it is all to easy to build a web page and make various statements on it which the general public are unable to authenticate.
Charging your LifePO4 at 15A does not prolong battery life and once you disconnect the Setec from charging and replace it with another charger then the charging capacity of the Setec is irrelevant. Your VoltX battery has a 1C charging capacity and you can theoretically charge it at 100A but of course most people buy a charger that is within their budget and their proposed use.
One thing I didn't pick up on before is the charging current of the Setec is limited to 5A or 10A depending on the model so a 15A charger will hasten recharging. The 35A you referenced is the limitation of output current and again is not affected by use of a separate charger. Again you can theoretically charge up to 100A.
Good luck
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Sunday 17th of November 2024 05:45:36 PM
Hello everyone,
I have found quite a lot of information in this forum on converting from AGM to Lithium batteries - & still a lot to get through.
Thanks to all contributors for your inputs.
I have a question - hopefully it will be simple. Recently via this forum, I bought one of Woolworths' VOLTEX Lithium batteries & thought I may be able to "drop it in without too much alteration". It seems from several members I can do that but I won't be able to charge it up to 100%. Then going back to my technician days where we had a little ditty - "Our job is not to do or die but to modify!" I thought I might be able to find my way through the SETEC Mk 2 power supply/charger & do some mods. Of course that would be a bit difficult as Jayco/SETEC don't like sharing cct diagrams with outsiders, customers.
There are various companies holding Black Friday sales & I noted that Supercheap is one with a "special" on Victron Blue Smart IP65 Chargers. The small one is 12v 10A BPC121031014R; there is a 15A & a 20A unit available as well. They all have a Li-ion setting. I assume if I get one of these chargers that I will be able to charge the new lithium battery ok.
As far as my solar goes I have a 20A Renogy controller - set to Lithium.
We're on our way home - they can have this "Down South" weather - in 4 nights at Toowoomba, we've had (are having) 3 electrical storms including one that formed out of a Super Cell - one would think this is the tropics!
Most definitely the Victron charger will do the job. I suggest you look on Amazon as their prices are cheaper. The IP65 15 amp is about the same price as the 10 amp on Supercheap special. Even at standard price I would choose bigger than the 10 amp.
If the budget permits, I would add a Victron smart shunt. It keeps track of battery state of charge etc regardless of whether the input amps are from solar or charger. With Lithium, voltage is a poor indicator of state of charge. It's great to see instant amps in or out and precise percentage of battery charge. The charger and the shunt are both viewable on the app.
I should warn however that the Victron app is awful. It gives the information you need but needs to reconnect every single time you want to look. It only takes a few seconds but having to do it every time is just bad design. There are graphs with selectable amps, volts, state of charge and more but they too are poorly designed. A great brand let down by a poorly designed app. Hopefully we will see an update soon.
Now that I have used the system, I wish I had bought the BMV712 battery monitor instead of the smart shunt. It is also a smart shunt but with an LCD display. Having a gauge means a glance to see battery information rather than having to open the app.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 13th of November 2024 10:28:34 PM
Hi all; I up graded my own Jayco caravan that also had the setec 11 charger built in. You are right in saying that, charger does not have a lithium profile. I also bought a Voltex lithium battery, a 12 volt 300 ah. Mine was on special through " catch " and for just over $1460 was a bargain. Came with a full 5 year warrentee. So far so good.
With your new battery you will have to work out what you want to run off your lithium battery and size the battery ( ies ) correctly. Do you just want a couple of light , tv, diesel heater etc or do you have a inverter to produce 240 volts mains voltage , throw in a coffee maker or some othe power hungery devise and you will find that your 100 amp battery will most likely not have the reserve and flatten, not as fast as the old agm batteries were you you only have a 50 % capacity. 6 months ago i up graded my agm batteries( 2 x 220 ah batteries that weighed in around 60 Kgms each ), so a very big saveing to be had.
Victron make some pritty good equipment and it is what i used in my jayco pop top. I unpluged the setec from mains power and still use the select and a fuse box. The wiring has not been altered. But in my case i have put the lithium battery under the bed. I also have a victron 12 volt 30 amp smart battery charger. One thing you will need is a current bridge, this is wired into the negitive terminal of the lithium battery and once installed and set up will give you a good guage on the capacity of your lithium battery ( a bit like a fuel guage in a car. ) the smart shunt will also show you the voltage og you lithium battery, this will remain pritty constant though. Do you have solar ??? you will also need to up grade the solar controller ( again victron ) to a mppt type.
All of my upgrade has been Victron, smart charger, solar controller and current bridge. The best part is all of the victron upgrade is blue toothed to my phone and at a glance i can see how my set up is performing. So far so good !!! There are other very well desighned equipment out their, but it was the blue toothe feature that sold me, so easy to set up or adjust some of the settings.
As my wife and my self like to free camp a fair bit several times a year and also living in Tasmania and with the old AGM batteries that started to fail after 4 years, i investergated in a small 2kva generator and befor the upgrade was using that generator to top up the house batteries. Now with the amount of solar on the roof i have not used the generator so far.
-- Edited by valiant81 on Thursday 14th of November 2024 02:18:28 PM
Bunnings too carry these items for reasonable prices (online only) - their 15A charger was only a few $ more than Supercheap's 10A one.
I assume your experience with the app was similar to the Jayco BMPRO system that Jayco now put in their campers, caravans - it has to be "on" every time you want to check a reading (my son had issues a couple of months ago with his almost new second hand camper but he wouldn't let me cut a hole for an external meter & switch!
Valiant81 - your experience is similar to what I'm going through - my load is not quite as "heavy". We have instant coffee - no coffee maker - our 17' van doesn't allow for such luxuries & my wife since undergoing major surgery earlier in the year has gone off coffee. She would appreciate your avatar as she worked in the old hospital at Coober Pedy in the late 60s.
I bought the Lithium battery because my AGM had carked it & it was a way of reducing weight as well. I only have a small inverter used occasionally to recharge batteries in cameras, computers. The 100Ah VOLTEX will be sufficient for us. I do have solar & have connected that to a new Renogy 20A MPPT controller - this will be doing most of the heavy lifting during the day.
At home with the van under the car port, I'll use my 2 sets of portable panels (similar to what Jonothon (arewethereyet) has although it's not quite as sophisticated. It's for this reason that I'll be happy with a smart 15A mains powered charger. NQ certainly has no lack of sun.
One job when I get home will be to have a look at the SETEC to see where I can couple into it to utilise the fuse box, etc. It's mounted under the fridge & I've only had it partially out once. The battery, pump, HWS & airconditioner compressor all live under my bed (we have singles).
I don't think I'll be bored with nothing to do when we arrive home this week.
But i do also have a chinese diesel heater and have wired in a couple of 12 power outlets for the 2 x engle fridges, one is used for drinks and the other is used for food , we find that the 3 way fridge is to tempermental in keeping things cold and it takes a couple of days to sort it's self out. I also have a couple (3 ) amature radios that also rely on a good 12 volt sorce.
In my case i just turned the selc11 off at the power point and removed the plug , the rest of the selc 11 works fine and no wireing was altered. If you are still upgrading and this is why i choose victron was with one app i can look at who my set up is working and no need for external meters or switches, the best part is that it " just works".
Hi Warren,
I replied to you on another thread about using your Setec to charge your battery.
This is what i posted.
'Ok Warren I have done some tests on my battery. Your Setec acts as a power supply providing 13.65V to the battery so i discharged my battery then charged it up to 13.65V with my Victron charger. I then ran a discharge test today at a rate of approximately 8A and taking it down to 10.6V using a fridge and lights as my battery tester hasnt arrived yet.
I was pleasantly surprised as they drew 108.8Ah from the battery. Judging by this you should have no issues charging your new battery with your Setec especially with your low power draw.
Good luck
Tim'I
If you do want to buy a charger though.
Bunnings do not actually sell the chargers, they are sold by Victron though the Bunnings Marketplace.
Take search and you can find the !5A cheaper elsewhere.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/274984150613?
If your Setec is similar to what my Centurion was in my old camper then all you need to do is wire the battery to the Setec, the same as the one you removed and simply unplug the Setec from the 240 power point. You then simply connect you Victron Charger to your battery and plug it into the the power point so that when you connect up to 240V power you battery gets charged.
Oooops I just repeated what Valient posted.
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 16th of November 2024 05:27:44 PM
Sorry about the duplicated query to you.
I've found a crowd that have offices in most Australian capital cities - Energy Eco (energyeco.com.au). Their prices are the best I've found, however a mate in Townsville is going to chase a solar supplier.
I assume from what I've read in the SETEC handbook that the 15A charger will be adequate for my use. The SETEC is capable of 35A but the charging current has been set to 15A to preserve the battery.
Hi Warren,
Not a problem and I was just unsure whether you had read what i posted on the other thread.
I saw the Energy Eco price but I did not reference that for various reasons. They state that they are located in various Australian cities yet there are no physical addresses and only one Sydney phone number. Whilst they may be legitimate it is all to easy to build a web page and make various statements on it which the general public are unable to authenticate.
Charging your LifePO4 at 15A does not prolong battery life and once you disconnect the Setec from charging and replace it with another charger then the charging capacity of the Setec is irrelevant. Your VoltX battery has a 1C charging capacity and you can theoretically charge it at 100A but of course most people buy a charger that is within their budget and their proposed use.
One thing I didn't pick up on before is the charging current of the Setec is limited to 5A or 10A depending on the model so a 15A charger will hasten recharging. The 35A you referenced is the limitation of output current and again is not affected by use of a separate charger. Again you can theoretically charge up to 100A.
Good luck
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Sunday 17th of November 2024 05:45:36 PM