G'day members, I was going to screw on my solar panels with Fasteners but has anyone used Sika 221 as was recommended to me. No holes which is ideal.
Am told surface prep is very important if using adhesive.
-- Edited by Dtassie on Sunday 1st of September 2024 10:13:02 AM
Big Mal said
10:44 AM Sep 1, 2024
Have mounted a few panels on van roof and ute body and while I have used Sikaflex marine Adhesive I have also used a couple of S/S screws on each bracket, surface area got a slight rough up and good clean with something that leaves no residue, name escapes me at the moment, my belief in adding the screws was mainly to give an even pressure to bracket while adhesive cured ......... it seems to have worked as latest roof panels have been on for 7 years and are still firmly attached, funny enough did come across a mangled panel near Rainbow Beach the other day and it was clearly just glued down and had taken flight ....... if the panel is at the front of van a wind deflector is a very good idea, if not a must, a reasonable sized bracket to spread load as well........... Read the Adhesive label fully not all are the same, must be UV and Heat tolerant as well as flexible, some aren't and will perish and flake in a few years, Marine is a good starting point.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:21 AM Sep 1, 2024
The OKA body (and the solar panels) was built 20 years ago and is held together with Sikaflex 252 and Sikaflex 11FC.
Follow the instructions, in particular the surface prep and the thickness of the adhesive.
The adhesive is flexible and must be allowed to move slightly with changes in temperature. Screws will cause a localised stress concentrations and add nothing to the joint strength.
Cheers,
Peter
TimTim said
11:38 AM Sep 1, 2024
I use Sikaflex but cant remember which one. Brackets bolted to the sides of panels, six in total, and a good bead of Sikaflex extending over and out from all sides of the bracket. I had to move some panels later on to add some more panels and can, after travelling on severely corrugated roads, tell you it sticks. Thoroughly clean the surface beforehand.
I do not screw the brackets into the sides, I bolt them and use spring washers. I have seen where the screws into the panels enlarge the holes in the aluminium through vibration and eventually work themselves out. There are other methods those such as placing a thicker strip of aluminium behind to screw into. In my case I was lucky in that the manufacturer installed panel on a new van had the screws loosen and come out on one side. The panel flipped over hanging and retained by the screws on the other. A check of the other panel confirmed the loose screws and enlarged holes through vibration.
Good luck.
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Sunday 1st of September 2024 11:43:57 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:02 PM Sep 1, 2024
TimTim wrote:
I do not screw the brackets into the sides, I bolt them and use spring washers. I have seen where the screws into the panels enlarge the holes in the aluminium through vibration and eventually work themselves out. There are other methods those such as placing a thicker strip of aluminium behind to screw into.
Yep. Or pop rivets.
But not into the roof. If you are nervous you can increase the strength with a greater area of bracket (wider and/or longer) and adhesive to the roof. Do not compromise on the thickness of the adhesive.
One method of controlling the thickness of the adhesive is to use small patches of double sided self adhesive foam tape to hold the bracket to the roof while maintaining the adhesive thickness until it sets.
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
12:49 PM Sep 1, 2024
Nyloc nuts don't work their way loose. These nuts should not really be reused as the nylon doesn't work as well second time around.
AndyCap100 said
01:48 PM Sep 1, 2024
Hi,i have used SIMSON ISR 70-03 ADHESIVE SEALER for over 12 yrs for fixing everything from solar panels on roofs to under waterline fittings on boats.NEVER had a problem,and yes ,preperation is the key.
If fitting solar panels etc allways remember that you need a certain thickness of product to stick but to also retain elasticity .I`allways put the adhesive on ,but with a couple of bits of matchstick on the roof between the bracket and roof which i`ve found ideal.
Hope this helps.
Andy.
watsea said
03:41 PM Sep 1, 2024
After reading a few recommendations on forums, last year I used the SIMSON ISR 70-03 Adhesive (it has a high temperature allowance in its specifications) for fixing brackets of a solar panel to my vans roof. Roof surface and bracket surfaces prepared well (I hope) and some foam pads to achieve suitable adhesive thickness. My panel does not have any fasteners through the roof.
So far so good but obviously my time has not been as long as the time for some other folk.
Dtassie said
07:16 PM Sep 1, 2024
Hello to all that replied and thank you.
I stated I was going to use 221 but it is actually 227 Sikaflex. After reading your good replies I looked to see if this stuff was UV resistant. It's not mentioned in the data sheet. It states in the data sheet that it has a tensile strength of 1.7mpa or (246psi) At the very bottom of the tube states the shelf life. "12 months" and was manufactured in 2022 (sigh) I just bought it.
I think I'll get an in date lol tube of the Simpson ISR 70-03 ( States uses for caravans etc) Its good to know about keeping a spaced thickness under the ali angle mounts I'll be using. (thumbs up)
-- Edited by Dtassie on Sunday 1st of September 2024 07:34:42 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:47 PM Sep 1, 2024
Dtassie wrote:
At the very bottom of the tube states the shelf life. "12 months" and was manufactured in 2022 (sigh) I just bought it.
Take it back and get a refund.
Cheers,
Peter
Are We Lost said
09:34 PM Sep 1, 2024
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Dtassie wrote:
At the very bottom of the tube states the shelf life. "12 months" and was manufactured in 2022 (sigh) I just bought it.
Take it back and get a refund.
Cheers,
Peter
Recently I bought some Sikaflex at Bunnings and when I opened it it was all solid. Had a look at the date and it was 5 years old.
So I took it back probably about 2 hours after buying it. No problem with swapping for a fresh one. I checked for dates on their other stock and every other one was fresh. My guess is someone did the dirty on Bunnings and returned their old one. I was troubled that they may accuse me of swapping out my own old one, but they showed no sign of doubting me.
Must remember to check dates when buying stuff like that. I do that religiously in the supermarket.
Dtassie said
09:44 AM Sep 2, 2024
Yes, will do fellas. Yah learn something everyday :).
Cheers
Whenarewethere said
10:42 AM Sep 2, 2024
I don't know the rate of curing on mentioned Sikaflex products.
But for flush glazing for highrise buildings using silicone to hold glass. If the total thickness of the silicone in 50mm. They allow 1mm curing per day before removing any temporary fastening or moving product during manufacturing. So 25 days as in most situations the silicone can cure from both sides.
Ian G said
06:35 PM Sep 2, 2024
Sikaflex has a very good customer service, just call or email them and ask what is the correct product and how to use it, simple, that's what I did
watsea said
08:27 PM Sep 2, 2024
Ian G wrote:
Sikaflex has a very good customer service, just call or email them and ask what is the correct product and how to use it, simple, that's what I did
I did that, but my customer experience was not so good.
With the Sika techie that I spoke to, I informed that I wanted to use a Sika adhesive and their correct primers to attach aluminium brackets (that were to hold a solar panel) onto a fibre glass roof of a caravan, without having any holes into the roof. He went through the adhesive and primers but when I mentioned about being for a caravan solar panel. The techie said that Sika would not recommend attaching a panel on a caravan roof without something drilled into the roof. CYA stuff. Maybe it depends on which techie answers the customer inquiries at any particular time. If you are to follow the Sika recommendations for preparations, the Sika primers are expensive for purchase of the minimum quantities involved.
The SIMSON adhesive recommended preparation does not involve the expensive primers. As I posted earlier, others gave posters recommended the SIMSON product. Hence more to my decision to use the SIMSON product.
Dtassie said
12:55 PM Sep 3, 2024
In the past I have called sika customer support and they said a distributor had what I needed I went there and they didn't have it so it was a waste of my time I'm going to use Simpson
Brenda and Alan said
03:49 PM Sep 6, 2024
Dtassie
I have one question that no one else has asked. What are these mounting pads made of. If they are plastic which I suspect they may be, do you know what type of plastic they are.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 6th of September 2024 03:50:18 PM
watsea said
09:35 AM Sep 7, 2024
A good point about the type of material for the brackets.
A while ago, I read that the ABS brackets lose their adhesion to some of the common adhesives, while it is less likely for loss of adhesion to aluminium brackets. My investigations also found that I could get some aluminium angle from a hardware and cut brackets much more cheaply than ABS mountings. I used aluminium angle.
I did search about ABS and adhesion but could not find the information that I read previously.
Are We Lost said
10:35 AM Sep 7, 2024
Here is what my brackets looked like after two and a half years of UV degradation. Glued and screwed.
Apart from the cracking, the surface area for adhesion is quite small. The removal process did break off more of the flanges, but they were clearly cracked and broken which is why I replaced them (with metal brackets). They were very fragile.
The adhesive stuck to the roof fairly well but was easy to separate from the brackets. I don't recollect what it was but I used Sika 11FC for the replacements (metal brackets) and it still looks perfect 3 years later.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 7th of September 2024 11:00:57 AM
I've used Soudal Fix All on top of my van & the solar panels haven't shown any sign of wanting to let go. It is an alternative to the Sikaflex product - which is the best I don't know.
I use the Jayco plastic mounting pads - screwed with MT stainless screws to the panel.
However you must use a wax remover where you put your mounting pads to give an excellent bond.
Dtassie said
09:51 PM Sep 20, 2024
Hello I've just completed the drive from Perth to Geelong. Across South Australia it was extremely windy and strong headwinds, the road trains on passing would slam the side mirror against the door I was quite worried about my newly glued on solar panels" two days prior " and three panels in total not small ones 560 Watts. Glad to say upon inspection in Geelong everything was as I applied it. I used the SIMSON ISR 70 03. I highly recommend now that I know firsthand it's good. The brackets I used were aluminum 2.5 mm thick 150 to 200mm long. I roughed up the bottom surface with a grinding disc 24 grit.The roof sheet, clened with grease n wax remover. Very good product.
Brodie Allen said
02:27 PM Sep 22, 2024
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
TimTim wrote:
I do not screw the brackets into the sides, I bolt them and use spring washers. I have seen where the screws into the panels enlarge the holes in the aluminium through vibration and eventually work themselves out. There are other methods those such as placing a thicker strip of aluminium behind to screw into.
Yep. Or pop rivets.
But not into the roof. If you are nervous you can increase the strength with a greater area of bracket (wider and/or longer) and adhesive to the roof. Do not compromise on the thickness of the adhesive.
One method of controlling the thickness of the adhesive is to use small patches of double sided self adhesive foam tape to hold the bracket to the roof while maintaining the adhesive thickness until it sets.
Cheers,
Peter
Agree wholeheartedly - larger area of bracket to roof is essential guarantee.
Dtassie said
07:37 PM Sep 22, 2024
Initially I used bolts and nyloc nuts for bolting the angle plates onto the solar panels. But once the panel is glued down you cannot access the underside to hold the nut to unscrew the panel from the bracket incase of a damaged or failed panel. So I removed the nuts and bolts and used larger tech screws but I used the same adhesive in between the bracket and solar panel before screwing in the tech screws. I'll be checking for loosened tech screws in future just to be sure but all good right now. In order to keep a spacing on the underside where the adhesive to roof was I used match sticks cutting off the sulfur bit
-- Edited by Dtassie on Sunday 22nd of September 2024 07:37:45 PM
G'day members, I was going to screw on my solar panels with Fasteners but has anyone used Sika 221 as was recommended to me. No holes which is ideal.
Am told surface prep is very important if using adhesive.
-- Edited by Dtassie on Sunday 1st of September 2024 10:13:02 AM
Follow the instructions, in particular the surface prep and the thickness of the adhesive.
The adhesive is flexible and must be allowed to move slightly with changes in temperature. Screws will cause a localised stress concentrations and add nothing to the joint strength.
Cheers,
Peter
I use Sikaflex but cant remember which one. Brackets bolted to the sides of panels, six in total, and a good bead of Sikaflex extending over and out from all sides of the bracket. I had to move some panels later on to add some more panels and can, after travelling on severely corrugated roads, tell you it sticks. Thoroughly clean the surface beforehand.
I do not screw the brackets into the sides, I bolt them and use spring washers. I have seen where the screws into the panels enlarge the holes in the aluminium through vibration and eventually work themselves out. There are other methods those such as placing a thicker strip of aluminium behind to screw into. In my case I was lucky in that the manufacturer installed panel on a new van had the screws loosen and come out on one side. The panel flipped over hanging and retained by the screws on the other. A check of the other panel confirmed the loose screws and enlarged holes through vibration.
Good luck.
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Sunday 1st of September 2024 11:43:57 AM
Yep. Or pop rivets.
But not into the roof. If you are nervous you can increase the strength with a greater area of bracket (wider and/or longer) and adhesive to the roof. Do not compromise on the thickness of the adhesive.
One method of controlling the thickness of the adhesive is to use small patches of double sided self adhesive foam tape to hold the bracket to the roof while maintaining the adhesive thickness until it sets.
Cheers,
Peter
Nyloc nuts don't work their way loose. These nuts should not really be reused as the nylon doesn't work as well second time around.
If fitting solar panels etc allways remember that you need a certain thickness of product to stick but to also retain elasticity .I`allways put the adhesive on ,but with a couple of bits of matchstick on the roof between the bracket and roof which i`ve found ideal.
Hope this helps.
Andy.
So far so good but obviously my time has not been as long as the time for some other folk.
Hello to all that replied and thank you.
I stated I was going to use 221 but it is actually 227 Sikaflex.
After reading your good replies I looked to see if this stuff was UV resistant. It's not mentioned in the data sheet.
It states in the data sheet that it has a tensile strength of 1.7mpa or (246psi)
At the very bottom of the tube states the shelf life. "12 months" and was manufactured in 2022 (sigh) I just bought it.
I think I'll get an in date lol tube of the Simpson ISR 70-03 ( States uses for caravans etc)
Its good to know about keeping a spaced thickness under the ali angle mounts I'll be using. (thumbs up)
-- Edited by Dtassie on Sunday 1st of September 2024 07:34:42 PM
Take it back and get a refund.
Cheers,
Peter
Recently I bought some Sikaflex at Bunnings and when I opened it it was all solid. Had a look at the date and it was 5 years old.
So I took it back probably about 2 hours after buying it. No problem with swapping for a fresh one. I checked for dates on their other stock and every other one was fresh. My guess is someone did the dirty on Bunnings and returned their old one. I was troubled that they may accuse me of swapping out my own old one, but they showed no sign of doubting me.
Must remember to check dates when buying stuff like that. I do that religiously in the supermarket.
I don't know the rate of curing on mentioned Sikaflex products.
But for flush glazing for highrise buildings using silicone to hold glass. If the total thickness of the silicone in 50mm. They allow 1mm curing per day before removing any temporary fastening or moving product during manufacturing. So 25 days as in most situations the silicone can cure from both sides.
I did that, but my customer experience was not so good.
With the Sika techie that I spoke to, I informed that I wanted to use a Sika adhesive and their correct primers to attach aluminium brackets (that were to hold a solar panel) onto a fibre glass roof of a caravan, without having any holes into the roof. He went through the adhesive and primers but when I mentioned about being for a caravan solar panel. The techie said that Sika would not recommend attaching a panel on a caravan roof without something drilled into the roof. CYA stuff. Maybe it depends on which techie answers the customer inquiries at any particular time. If you are to follow the Sika recommendations for preparations, the Sika primers are expensive for purchase of the minimum quantities involved.
The SIMSON adhesive recommended preparation does not involve the expensive primers. As I posted earlier, others gave posters recommended the SIMSON product. Hence more to my decision to use the SIMSON product.
Dtassie
I have one question that no one else has asked. What are these mounting pads made of. If they are plastic which I suspect they may be, do you know what type of plastic they are.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 6th of September 2024 03:50:18 PM
A while ago, I read that the ABS brackets lose their adhesion to some of the common adhesives, while it is less likely for loss of adhesion to aluminium brackets. My investigations also found that I could get some aluminium angle from a hardware and cut brackets much more cheaply than ABS mountings. I used aluminium angle.
I did search about ABS and adhesion but could not find the information that I read previously.
Here is what my brackets looked like after two and a half years of UV degradation. Glued and screwed.
Apart from the cracking, the surface area for adhesion is quite small. The removal process did break off more of the flanges, but they were clearly cracked and broken which is why I replaced them (with metal brackets). They were very fragile.
The adhesive stuck to the roof fairly well but was easy to separate from the brackets. I don't recollect what it was but I used Sika 11FC for the replacements (metal brackets) and it still looks perfect 3 years later.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 7th of September 2024 11:00:57 AM
I use the Jayco plastic mounting pads - screwed with MT stainless screws to the panel.
However you must use a wax remover where you put your mounting pads to give an excellent bond.
Agree wholeheartedly - larger area of bracket to roof is essential guarantee.
Initially I used bolts and nyloc nuts for bolting the angle plates onto the solar panels.
But once the panel is glued down you cannot access the underside to hold the nut to unscrew the panel from the bracket incase of a damaged or failed panel.
So I removed the nuts and bolts and used larger tech screws but I used the same adhesive in between the bracket and solar panel before screwing in the tech screws.
I'll be checking for loosened tech screws in future just to be sure but all good right now.
In order to keep a spacing on the underside where the adhesive to roof was I used match sticks cutting off the sulfur bit
-- Edited by Dtassie on Sunday 22nd of September 2024 07:37:45 PM