The big money they are dropping could have paid for their fuel.
DMaxer said
08:46 AM Jul 4, 2024
The ones they are referring to are 2015 models, virtually the first ones on the market.
Think about how much lap tops, calculators and flat screen televisions were when they first came on the market compared to ten years later.
Craig1 said
08:51 AM Jul 4, 2024
Buyer beware, yet again
peter67 said
08:59 AM Jul 4, 2024
And think of how much you lose selling a one year old laptop or phone. That's all EV's are, a laptop on wheels. The second hand market for EV's has collapsed due to no way of measuring battery health, skyrocketing insurance premiums or insurance refusal and stricter charging space laws IE, no charging in multi level spaces or under roof structures.
Insurance companies are writing off lightly damaged EV's because they are to risky and expensive to fix. Plenty of data online available to back up those comments. For example, you drive over a speed hump in a shopping centre carpark and just lightly graze the battery (which makes up the floor of the vehicle) and it leaves a small dent and a couple of scratch marks on the casing...your vehicle is now written off if you claim insurance, and a long term fire hazard that could burn down to the ground any time in the future, plus your house if the EV is parked in the garage.
Did I mention house insurance premiums if you park an EV at your home address??
Whenarewethere said
09:12 AM Jul 4, 2024
Bought my Land Rover new in 2014 $55k. Today worth $15k. What's the difference?
DMaxer said
10:09 AM Jul 4, 2024
There is no difference Whenarewethere, it is called depreciation. Unfortunately for some, that does not fit the agenda of the fossil fuel brigade.
I saw the other day where the sales have supposedly collapsed with electric vehicles and then a few pages later a report that more than 8000 per month were being sold in Oz alone.
Whenarewethere said
11:02 AM Jul 4, 2024
DMaxer wrote:
it is called depreciation.
The article is a non story.
Our previous car we also bought new, it deprecated to effectively nothing. So what it's a car.
If one is going to whinge over depreciation buy property instead!
Greg 1 said
12:15 PM Jul 4, 2024
Unfortunately the depreciation on EV's is known to be greater than many of the popular ICE vehicles.
Given the cost of a replacement battery, at 10 years old the value will be very little whereas an ICE car at present retains a reasonable amount of value still at that point particularly if it is a popular model.
For my 9 year old Ranger for arguments sake, it is still retaining about 50% residual of it's price when new.
A 5 year old Tesla by comparison is down to around that level in nearly half the time period.
And that is primarily driven by people's concerns about battery life and the cost of replacement, which on a Tesla is about $25,000 to $30,000 depending on model.
It is not being anti EV. I think they make a lot of sense as a commuter vehicle, it is just how it is.
Even some ICE's end up with poor resale due to reliability issues and other known faults so people steer clear.
DMaxer said
12:57 PM Jul 4, 2024
I agree with you Greg that at the moment the depreciation may well be greater on EVs. However, like everything else, as the technology progresses so the prices of replacement batteries will be lower.
Because I am a cynic I think that a lot of new commodities are priced artificially high to prevent losses on those investments currently in the majority. After due time is given for a phasing out period which allows the market gurus to reinvest in something else without high losses, the price magically falls. Just imagine the impact on an ICE if the replacement battery was say $1000. What car would take over as the preferred option then I wonder.
Craig1 said
01:16 PM Jul 4, 2024
Whenarewethere wrote:
Bought my Land Rover new in 2014 $55k. Today worth $15k. What's the difference?
Bought my GXL April 2017 88k on the road. Could easily get that now I think.
Whenarewethere said
01:25 PM Jul 4, 2024
Life is too short to buy white goods.
Whenarewethere said
02:22 PM Jul 4, 2024
If you think a car is bad.
Try owning a yacht.
We changed to looking at the water instead of being on it!
As they say: Owning a yacht has the enjoyment of tearing up $100 notes every minute under a cold shower in winter.
My sister still has to acquire similar skills!
Gundog said
02:28 PM Jul 4, 2024
One thing that is often overlooked is not many people can actually purchase a new car via trade in and cash, there that $80-200,000, when financed that additional cost is never included in the overall cost I have no idea what 5 years or so of intrest on an $80,000+ would be, I knew that when I purchased my PK Ranger it was going to be the last vehicle I purchased, unless I had an accident ortherwise its approaching 300,000k now if it needed a new engine that would done, rather than spend $80,000 on a replacement.
I wonder if EV's could be crashed or controlled from a cyber attack, apple proved it could do that when it degrated older Iphone batteries to get owners to upgrade to a newer model, why not EV manufactures building in redundancy into the software.
Whenarewethere said
04:10 PM Jul 4, 2024
People who buy cars on finance always buy far more expensive cars. Then they end up in the treadmill noose.
Always paid cash for our cars.
Petrol cars have the less value the council strip land mines.
As I said invest in a yacht if you are serious about tearing up money.
DMaxer said
04:13 PM Jul 4, 2024
When there is adverse press or unsubstantiated claims or criticism about a product one always needs to consider just who is benefitting. I wonder how much of the anti EV press is originating from the ones under financial threat, namely the oil and fossil fuel industry.
I remember back in the 1970s when Ralph Sarich produced his revolutionary engine which was branded as unreliable as it may overheat and several other maladies. It was supposed to greatly reduce fuel usage which would be a big saving to motorists. It never really went into production as he sold the patents and all rights to .... you guessed it, the oil companies, for more than 500 million. Imagine that in today's money and if it was such a dud, why pay that amount for it.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:16 PM Jul 4, 2024
DMaxer wrote:
I remember back in the 1970s when Ralph Sarich produced his revolutionary engine which was branded as unreliable as it may overheat and several other maladies. It was supposed to greatly reduce fuel usage which would be a big saving to motorists. It never really went into production as he sold the patents and all rights to .... you guessed it, the oil companies, for more than 500 million. Imagine that in today's money and if it was such a dud, why pay that amount for it.
The tiniest bit of research will tell you that this is absolute rubbish.
The Orbital Engine Company, with funding from partner BHP and Federal Government R&D grants,[4] worked on the concept from 1972 until 1983 and had a 3.5L four stroke engine performing as well as the similar petrol car engines of the day at typical road load conditions. A technical paper[5] was presented to the Society of Automotive Engineers in 1982, and is now part of their historic transaction collection.
A major reason for the good performance of this engine was the development of a unique and patented injection system directed into the combustion chamber which created a stratified charge combustion process.
Several auto makers from around the world showed great interest in the engine, however it was realised that there was still at least $100 million of development work required to commercialise the engine and the funding sources decided this was not a sound investment. Instead it was realised the same injection and combustion system could be adapted onto existing two and four stroke petrol engines and this work become the future of the company, being called the Orbital Combustion Process.[6][7]
During prototyping process, the engine has been installed in 3 vehicles: Toyota Kijang (3 cylinder unit), and Suzuki Karimun. (2 cylinder unit), installed by Sangeet Hari Kapoor when he was working in PT Wahana Perkasa Auto Jaya, which is a company under the Texmaco group.[8] The 3 cylinder unit is also installed to 100 units of Ford Festivas in Australia, dubbed Festiva EcoSport, and the verdict is that while the car is somewhat more powerful than the Ford Festiva 1.3, it failed in to deliver emission compliance, efficiency, and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) reduction at same time.[9][10][11]
Cheers,
Peter
Aussie1 said
06:29 PM Jul 4, 2024
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
I remember back in the 1970s when Ralph Sarich produced his revolutionary engine which was branded as unreliable as it may overheat and several other maladies. It was supposed to greatly reduce fuel usage which would be a big saving to motorists. It never really went into production as he sold the patents and all rights to .... you guessed it, the oil companies, for more than 500 million. Imagine that in today's money and if it was such a dud, why pay that amount for it.
The tiniest bit of research will tell you that this is absolute rubbish.
The Orbital Engine Company, with funding from partner BHP and Federal Government R&D grants,[4] worked on the concept from 1972 until 1983 and had a 3.5L four stroke engine performing as well as the similar petrol car engines of the day at typical road load conditions. A technical paper[5] was presented to the Society of Automotive Engineers in 1982, and is now part of their historic transaction collection.
A major reason for the good performance of this engine was the development of a unique and patented injection system directed into the combustion chamber which created a stratified charge combustion process.
Several auto makers from around the world showed great interest in the engine, however it was realised that there was still at least $100 million of development work required to commercialise the engine and the funding sources decided this was not a sound investment. Instead it was realised the same injection and combustion system could be adapted onto existing two and four stroke petrol engines and this work become the future of the company, being called the Orbital Combustion Process.[6][7]
During prototyping process, the engine has been installed in 3 vehicles: Toyota Kijang (3 cylinder unit), and Suzuki Karimun. (2 cylinder unit), installed by Sangeet Hari Kapoor when he was working in PT Wahana Perkasa Auto Jaya, which is a company under the Texmaco group.[8] The 3 cylinder unit is also installed to 100 units of Ford Festivas in Australia, dubbed Festiva EcoSport, and the verdict is that while the car is somewhat more powerful than the Ford Festiva 1.3, it failed in to deliver emission compliance, efficiency, and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) reduction at same time.[9][10][11]
And your research got you.... zero I expect. Mmm, who's the smarter one
Greg 1 said
08:39 PM Jul 4, 2024
He actually sold the injection technology to Polaris and it was seen in many Evinrude outboards, snowmobiles and other Polaris products. Polaris has fingers in a lot of pies.
I believe Polaris also went on to sell the technology to several other manufacturers and it would not surprise me if some of the modern direct injection motors were not using all or some of that technology.
I have met Ralph on a few occasions and gone along to a couple of his lectures he gave to the Society of Automotive Engineers when he had the engines in the test cars. Many years ago now.
Unfortunately the WA State government did not support him as it could have and manufacture of the injection system moved to the USA who welcomed him with open arms. Polaris then saw the potential and bought him out.
Ralph didn't really want to go to the States as he is a bit of a parochial West Australian, but just could not get support here to set up a manufacturing hub.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:23 AM Jul 5, 2024
True, but these were other very good developments that the company made, mostly after the engine was abandoned.
Cheers,
Peter
peter67 said
10:47 AM Jul 5, 2024
Gundog wrote:
One thing that is often overlooked is not many people can actually purchase a new car via trade in and cash, there that $80-200,000, when financed that additional cost is never included in the overall cost I have no idea what 5 years or so of intrest on an $80,000+ would be, I knew that when I purchased my PK Ranger it was going to be the last vehicle I purchased, unless I had an accident ortherwise its approaching 300,000k now if it needed a new engine that would done, rather than spend $80,000 on a replacement.
I wonder if EV's could be crashed or controlled from a cyber attack, apple proved it could do that when it degrated older Iphone batteries to get owners to upgrade to a newer model, why not EV manufactures building in redundancy into the software.
Tesla driving itself down a railroad track...
Don't worry about cyber attacks on your Tesla, just push the auto pilot self driving button and....bobs your aunties uncle, the traffic magically disappears and the count down to major impact begins.
ps, a couple of famous ex EV owner sayings...
1/ How to turn $100.000 dollars in to NET ZERO.
2/ Money talks when you buy an EV...it says goodbye.
-- Edited by peter67 on Friday 5th of July 2024 11:23:02 AM
The worst financial investment one can make is in buying a motor vehicle.
2001 we bought a new Toyota sedan. Cost $49000 today's value is $5000 if we are lucky.
It is called depreciation I guess.
Before retirement, I had a top-of-the-range company car like holden Caliuas or Ford fairmont ghia.
nearly 20 years with the company and had the pleasure of a great vehicle.
No cost to me and even had motoring holidays with complimentary fuel paid for by the company.
Ah!!! those were the days, and I thought that they would never end.... But !!! Guess what.
I sure miss those benefits.
Jay&Dee
Whenarewethere said
10:08 PM Jul 10, 2024
Even further, the brain dead are the people who buy cars on finance.
Always paid cash for cars.
Interesting that people buying cars with cash, buy cheaper models.
Next vehicle looks like a wheelchair, or probably his & hers!
peter67 said
09:48 AM Jul 15, 2024
Just in...Mercedes slash prices on all their EV models.
Lead story on News.com.au today
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/screwed-aussies-trying-to-sell-their-used-teslas-face-massive-challenges/news-story/2f140cb5a8cbda0f794e12ddebdc462b
The big money they are dropping could have paid for their fuel.
Insurance companies are writing off lightly damaged EV's because they are to risky and expensive to fix. Plenty of data online available to back up those comments. For example, you drive over a speed hump in a shopping centre carpark and just lightly graze the battery (which makes up the floor of the vehicle) and it leaves a small dent and a couple of scratch marks on the casing...your vehicle is now written off if you claim insurance, and a long term fire hazard that could burn down to the ground any time in the future, plus your house if the EV is parked in the garage.
Did I mention house insurance premiums if you park an EV at your home address??
Bought my Land Rover new in 2014 $55k. Today worth $15k. What's the difference?
There is no difference Whenarewethere, it is called depreciation. Unfortunately for some, that does not fit the agenda of the fossil fuel brigade.
I saw the other day where the sales have supposedly collapsed with electric vehicles and then a few pages later a report that more than 8000 per month were being sold in Oz alone.
The article is a non story.
Our previous car we also bought new, it deprecated to effectively nothing. So what it's a car.
If one is going to whinge over depreciation buy property instead!
I agree with you Greg that at the moment the depreciation may well be greater on EVs. However, like everything else, as the technology progresses so the prices of replacement batteries will be lower.
Because I am a cynic I think that a lot of new commodities are priced artificially high to prevent losses on those investments currently in the majority. After due time is given for a phasing out period which allows the market gurus to reinvest in something else without high losses, the price magically falls. Just imagine the impact on an ICE if the replacement battery was say $1000. What car would take over as the preferred option then I wonder.
Bought my GXL April 2017 88k on the road. Could easily get that now I think.
Life is too short to buy white goods.
If you think a car is bad.
Try owning a yacht.
We changed to looking at the water instead of being on it!
As they say: Owning a yacht has the enjoyment of tearing up $100 notes every minute under a cold shower in winter.
My sister still has to acquire similar skills!
One thing that is often overlooked is not many people can actually purchase a new car via trade in and cash, there that $80-200,000, when financed that additional cost is never included in the overall cost I have no idea what 5 years or so of intrest on an $80,000+ would be, I knew that when I purchased my PK Ranger it was going to be the last vehicle I purchased, unless I had an accident ortherwise its approaching 300,000k now if it needed a new engine that would done, rather than spend $80,000 on a replacement.
I wonder if EV's could be crashed or controlled from a cyber attack, apple proved it could do that when it degrated older Iphone batteries to get owners to upgrade to a newer model, why not EV manufactures building in redundancy into the software.
People who buy cars on finance always buy far more expensive cars. Then they end up in the treadmill noose.
Always paid cash for our cars.
Petrol cars have the less value the council strip land mines.
As I said invest in a yacht if you are serious about tearing up money.
When there is adverse press or unsubstantiated claims or criticism about a product one always needs to consider just who is benefitting. I wonder how much of the anti EV press is originating from the ones under financial threat, namely the oil and fossil fuel industry.
I remember back in the 1970s when Ralph Sarich produced his revolutionary engine which was branded as unreliable as it may overheat and several other maladies. It was supposed to greatly reduce fuel usage which would be a big saving to motorists. It never really went into production as he sold the patents and all rights to .... you guessed it, the oil companies, for more than 500 million. Imagine that in today's money and if it was such a dud, why pay that amount for it.
The tiniest bit of research will tell you that this is absolute rubbish.
Sarich orbital engine - Wikipedia
Research and Development[edit]
The Orbital Engine Company, with funding from partner BHP and Federal Government R&D grants,[4] worked on the concept from 1972 until 1983 and had a 3.5L four stroke engine performing as well as the similar petrol car engines of the day at typical road load conditions. A technical paper[5] was presented to the Society of Automotive Engineers in 1982, and is now part of their historic transaction collection.
A major reason for the good performance of this engine was the development of a unique and patented injection system directed into the combustion chamber which created a stratified charge combustion process.
Several auto makers from around the world showed great interest in the engine, however it was realised that there was still at least $100 million of development work required to commercialise the engine and the funding sources decided this was not a sound investment. Instead it was realised the same injection and combustion system could be adapted onto existing two and four stroke petrol engines and this work become the future of the company, being called the Orbital Combustion Process.[6][7]
During prototyping process, the engine has been installed in 3 vehicles: Toyota Kijang (3 cylinder unit), and Suzuki Karimun. (2 cylinder unit), installed by Sangeet Hari Kapoor when he was working in PT Wahana Perkasa Auto Jaya, which is a company under the Texmaco group.[8] The 3 cylinder unit is also installed to 100 units of Ford Festivas in Australia, dubbed Festiva EcoSport, and the verdict is that while the car is somewhat more powerful than the Ford Festiva 1.3, it failed in to deliver emission compliance, efficiency, and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) reduction at same time.[9][10][11]
Cheers,
Peter
Yeah, I second that, what rubbish.
And a great West Aussie born and bred to boot.
Ralph Sarich - Wikipedia
Cheers,
Peter
And your research got you.... zero I expect. Mmm, who's the smarter one
Cheers,
Peter
Tesla driving itself down a railroad track...
Don't worry about cyber attacks on your Tesla, just push
the auto pilot self driving button and....bobs your aunties uncle, the traffic magically disappears and the count down to major impact begins.
ps, a couple of famous ex EV owner sayings...
1/ How to turn $100.000 dollars in to NET ZERO.
2/ Money talks when you buy an EV...it says goodbye.
-- Edited by peter67 on Friday 5th of July 2024 11:23:02 AM
2001 we bought a new Toyota sedan. Cost $49000 today's value is $5000 if we are lucky.
It is called depreciation I guess.
Before retirement, I had a top-of-the-range company car like holden Caliuas or Ford fairmont ghia.
nearly 20 years with the company and had the pleasure of a great vehicle.
No cost to me and even had motoring holidays with complimentary fuel paid for by the company.
Ah!!! those were the days, and I thought that they would never end.... But !!! Guess what.
I sure miss those benefits.
Jay&Dee
Even further, the brain dead are the people who buy cars on finance.
Always paid cash for cars.
Interesting that people buying cars with cash, buy cheaper models.
Next vehicle looks like a wheelchair, or probably his & hers!