It all started with a discussion of whether or not to buy an ICE Zero Turn mower or an EV Zero Turn mower. One serious comparison I have seen bumped initial cost against operating cost with the reduced operating cost making a Payback time of just 3 years. The warranty on the ICE mower was one Year, the eMower, 6 years.
I have one friend operating an EV as a commuter and it is currently costing him 31 cents to charge sufficient to travel 300 Km. I now have the opportunity to do a comparison between fuel/energy costs using an ICE version of a H Kona and an identical shape and interior EV H Kona. Rough figures suggest the break even time is going to be less than 18 months before the EV will be putting dollars back in the EV owner's pocket.
I have a couple of things to adjust my comparison around. The EV owner has a history of Hypermiling and is already researching wheel rim sizes, tyre profiles, tyre pressures, and tyre rubber compounds. He is in the process of installing a 12KW solar system plus a LiFePo4 battery bank. We will record how much (KWs) are used to recharge the EV and multiple by the standard 230 Volt Electrical supply costs.
In a related issue, I'm watching the proposed restrictions to be applied by Caravan Parks against EV owners who want to charge their vehicles while parked at their paid for camping site.
-- Edited by Izabarack on Wednesday 22nd of May 2024 05:46:36 PM
Mein said
08:17 PM May 22, 2024
"I have one friend operating an EV as a commuter and it is currently costing him 31 cents to charge sufficient to travel 300 Km"
Maybe a typo but, it's simply not true - and off by about 6,000%!
thomas01 said
08:25 PM May 22, 2024
31 cents is approx 1.5kwh of electricity at the house. Probably wouldn't get you far in an EV.
A quick google search turned up prices of between $15 - $25 to charge a 60 kwh battery at home. Solar at home or charging while at work will reduce these costs. Charging stations have varying rates.
Just make sure when you are doing a comparison that you compare apples with apples.
Whenarewethere said
09:01 PM May 22, 2024
You re looking very roughly at 0.2kWh per km for an EV.
My Land Rover petrol engine converting litres to kW (x 9.6) it works out at about 1.63kWh per km city driving. But petrol is cheaper at roughly $0.23 per kWh.
If one has access to solar for EV charging, I doubt the EV owner is going to complain.
jegog said
11:20 PM May 22, 2024
The BYD Sealion specs quote 169 & 179 Wh/km for the two variants.
The Sealion is on sale in Australia.
But the best BYD models are not coming here. www.google.com/search%3A1716381499630&ei=O-dNZq-0JZn7seMP386mwAc&oq=most+lux+byd+cars&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEW1vc3QgbHV4IGJ5ZCBjYXJzKgIIADIKECEYoAEYwwQYCkjYUlAAWI4kcAB4AZABAJgBqgKgAboNqgEFMC4zLjW4AQHIAQD4AQGYAgegAqoLwgIGEAAYBxgewgIIEAAYBRgHGB7CAggQABgHGAgYHsICCBAhGKABGMMEmAMAkgcFMC4yLjWgB5ol&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#
EV sales have collapsed in the first quarter of 2024. Google EV second hand prices for a gauge of how much you lose when you wish to sell, it's horrific. People are giving away early Tesla models at battery replacement time.
KJB said
10:32 AM May 23, 2024
I would like to know an EV's total owning/running cost compared to an ICE over a period of 20 years (buying new batteries and disposing of old batteries will be significant costs )
Do not forget that the EV Fraternity tend to not mention the Total Enviromental Impact of "Green Electric ??" (extra mining etc... not only for batteries but also for the massive upgrades to National electrical infrastructures incl. Grid, Wind farms, Solar farms etc.... - all with relatively short finite lives , in order to support "all things electric)
Gundog said
10:36 AM May 23, 2024
Yes deprecation is horrific
Greg 1 said
12:46 PM May 23, 2024
If you can charge off rooftop solar they work out quite economic but if you are relying on public chargers they can be dearer than petrol over a distance.
A motoring magazine did a comparison using two BMW'S of similar size, one an EV and the other an ICE, on a run between Sydney and Melbourne down the Hume.
They were using fast chargers for the EV and that ended up being more expensive than the ICE car for the journey.
A mate with a Tesla Model 3 only charges off his solar and it costs him next to nothing to run in terms of power usage, but he only uses the Tesla around town.
Tyre usage is higher due to the higher weights and more expensive to replace as they use a special low rolling resistance tyre, so that adds to the overall costs.
Whenarewethere said
02:00 PM May 23, 2024
KJB wrote:
I would like to know an EV's total owning/running cost compared to an ICE over a period of 20 years
My Peugeot 504 & Seat Ibiza each had for 18 years. They were worth nothing at that age. Current car is already 11 years old.
KJB said
02:59 PM May 23, 2024
Whenarewethere wrote:
KJB wrote:
I would like to know an EV's total owning/running cost compared to an ICE over a period of 20 years
My Peugeot 504 & Seat Ibiza each had for 18 years. They were worth nothing at that age. Current car is already 11 years old.
........but gave good service? and probably just had normal simple maintenance costs in the mean time
.....unlike many of the cars of the past 15 years ,often with relatively low kilometres, and owners having to wear the Bill from multitudes of expensive "engine light" torture episodes .......and Dealers often just using "swaptronics"/guessing to try and pinpoint the problem...... not to mention the interruption to life and down time .......
Whenarewethere said
07:14 PM May 23, 2024
Firstly, our Land Rover has been the most reliable car. My Sister has a Land Rover as well & it has been her most reliable car, 2 years older than mine.
Peugeot 504, 2 radiators replaced due to solder corrosion & intermittent soldering. 2 clutch master cylinders replaced. Rust cut out under windscreen left & right corners & welded in new sections & elsewhere. Head gasket replace plus machined head down accordingly. Then all the usual stuff.
Seat Ibiza (VW Polo equivalent as Polo was not sold in the 1990s) had a lot of breakdowns & had to be towed to garage.
Our Land Rovers, well nothing. Mine has done about 4k of corrugated roads. Sister's car, endless short school runs.
Come on in "suckers" and save the planet, with your hard earned money !!!
DMaxer said
08:00 AM May 25, 2024
A stirring peroration from our old friend Aussie. The forums own version of King Canute.
rgren2 said
08:07 AM May 25, 2024
Had to look that word up.
peter67 said
10:44 AM May 25, 2024
DMaxer wrote:
A stirring peroration from our old friend Aussie. The forums own version of King Canute.
Aha! I see the tablespoon of Paraffin Oil before bedtime is not helping with the gas build up. Try TWO tablespoons of Castor oil just before bed, and confine yourself to a SINGLE bed closer to the WC, for safety, and hygienic reasons. STRICTLY NO SMOKING.
Possum3 said
10:45 AM May 25, 2024
Peroration is the concluding part of a discourse and especially an oration, or a highly rhetorical speech.
DMaxer said
02:47 PM May 25, 2024
If you are trying to assist Peter with comprehension Possum, I suggest you keep your explanation to words with only one syllable. Otherwise just an exercise in futility.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 25th of May 2024 02:47:28 PM
Aussie1 said
07:20 PM May 25, 2024
peter67 wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
A stirring peroration from our old friend Aussie. The forums own version of King Canute.
Aha! I see the tablespoon of Paraffin Oil before bedtime is not helping with the gas build up. Try TWO tablespoons of Castor oil just before bed, and confine yourself to a SINGLE bed closer to the WC, for safety, and hygienic reasons. STRICTLY NO SMOKING.
Good response there Peter, thank you.
I didn't bother responding to DMAXER, only because I don't have any time for those that do not respect their better's
Whenarewethere said
08:00 PM May 25, 2024
DMaxer wrote:
If you are trying to assist Peter with comprehension Possum, I suggest you keep your explanation to words with only one syllable. Otherwise just an exercise in futility.
It all started with a discussion of whether or not to buy an ICE Zero Turn mower or an EV Zero Turn mower. One serious comparison I have seen bumped initial cost against operating cost with the reduced operating cost making a Payback time of just 3 years. The warranty on the ICE mower was one Year, the eMower, 6 years.
I have one friend operating an EV as a commuter and it is currently costing him 31 cents to charge sufficient to travel 300 Km. I now have the opportunity to do a comparison between fuel/energy costs using an ICE version of a H Kona and an identical shape and interior EV H Kona. Rough figures suggest the break even time is going to be less than 18 months before the EV will be putting dollars back in the EV owner's pocket.
I have a couple of things to adjust my comparison around. The EV owner has a history of Hypermiling and is already researching wheel rim sizes, tyre profiles, tyre pressures, and tyre rubber compounds. He is in the process of installing a 12KW solar system plus a LiFePo4 battery bank. We will record how much (KWs) are used to recharge the EV and multiple by the standard 230 Volt Electrical supply costs.
In a related issue, I'm watching the proposed restrictions to be applied by Caravan Parks against EV owners who want to charge their vehicles while parked at their paid for camping site.
-- Edited by Izabarack on Wednesday 22nd of May 2024 05:46:36 PM
"I have one friend operating an EV as a commuter and it is currently costing him 31 cents to charge sufficient to travel 300 Km"
Maybe a typo but, it's simply not true - and off by about 6,000%!
A quick google search turned up prices of between $15 - $25 to charge a 60 kwh battery at home. Solar at home or charging while at work will reduce these costs. Charging stations have varying rates.
Just make sure when you are doing a comparison that you compare apples with apples.
You re looking very roughly at 0.2kWh per km for an EV.
My Land Rover petrol engine converting litres to kW (x 9.6) it works out at about 1.63kWh per km city driving. But petrol is cheaper at roughly $0.23 per kWh.
If one has access to solar for EV charging, I doubt the EV owner is going to complain.
The Sealion is on sale in Australia.
But the best BYD models are not coming here.
www.google.com/search%3A1716381499630&ei=O-dNZq-0JZn7seMP386mwAc&oq=most+lux+byd+cars&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEW1vc3QgbHV4IGJ5ZCBjYXJzKgIIADIKECEYoAEYwwQYCkjYUlAAWI4kcAB4AZABAJgBqgKgAboNqgEFMC4zLjW4AQHIAQD4AQGYAgegAqoLwgIGEAAYBxgewgIIEAAYBRgHGB7CAggQABgHGAgYHsICCBAhGKABGMMEmAMAkgcFMC4yLjWgB5ol&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#
Or for their U9 supercar that can match a Ferrari:
www.euronews.com/next/2024/02/26/chinese-carmaker-byd-unveils-215000-electric-supercar-that-reaches-speeds-of-a-ferrari
Yes, serious miss on my part. Should say $31. Kona standard variant, range about 345 Km.
For w ample.
https://rollininsurance.com.au/cost-to-charge-electric-car
I would like to know an EV's total owning/running cost compared to an ICE over a period of 20 years (buying new batteries and disposing of old batteries will be significant costs )
Do not forget that the EV Fraternity tend to not mention the Total Enviromental Impact of "Green Electric ??" (extra mining etc... not only for batteries but also for the massive upgrades to National electrical infrastructures incl. Grid, Wind farms, Solar farms etc.... - all with relatively short finite lives , in order to support "all things electric)
My Peugeot 504 & Seat Ibiza each had for 18 years. They were worth nothing at that age. Current car is already 11 years old.
........but gave good service? and probably just had normal simple maintenance costs in the mean time
.....unlike many of the cars of the past 15 years ,often with relatively low kilometres, and owners having to wear the Bill from multitudes of expensive "engine light" torture episodes .......and Dealers often just using "swaptronics"/guessing to try and pinpoint the problem...... not to mention the interruption to life and down time .......
Firstly, our Land Rover has been the most reliable car. My Sister has a Land Rover as well & it has been her most reliable car, 2 years older than mine.
Peugeot 504, 2 radiators replaced due to solder corrosion & intermittent soldering. 2 clutch master cylinders replaced. Rust cut out under windscreen left & right corners & welded in new sections & elsewhere. Head gasket replace plus machined head down accordingly. Then all the usual stuff.
Seat Ibiza (VW Polo equivalent as Polo was not sold in the 1990s) had a lot of breakdowns & had to be towed to garage.
Our Land Rovers, well nothing. Mine has done about 4k of corrugated roads. Sister's car, endless short school runs.
Todays news backs this up
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/car-advice/roadside-assistance-ev-nightmare-as-prices-crash/news-story/b62dd244c63c842b56c24d1c649fd5cd
Aha! I see the tablespoon of Paraffin Oil before bedtime is not helping with the gas build up. Try TWO tablespoons of Castor oil just before bed, and confine yourself to a SINGLE bed closer to the WC, for safety, and hygienic reasons. STRICTLY NO SMOKING.
If you are trying to assist Peter with comprehension Possum, I suggest you keep your explanation to words with only one syllable. Otherwise just an exercise in futility.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 25th of May 2024 02:47:28 PM
Good response there Peter, thank you.
I didn't bother responding to DMAXER, only because I don't have any time for those that do not respect their better's
Ah!